The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - POST MORTEM - 1st February 2022

[Tucker]

Of those with contracts expiring this summer, there are loads there we could theoretically sign for no fee who would instantly improve either our starting XI, or our overall squad.



DF: Ginter, Tarkowski, Zagadou, Romagnoli, Schar would all get into our squad above Rodon & Tanganga right now

The Olivia Newton John song?

 

[BedfordshireSpud]

The Olivia Newton John song?

Black Lace I seem to remember, something about doing unmentionable things to trees with pineapples.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

If we dont spend all that money weve saved (and spend it well) in the summer this window will have been one of the worst in history

So if we don't spend all of the money, but do invest what we spend well and achieve success from it, this window will have been one of the worst in history?

How about if we don't spend all of the money but our two new signings massively surpass your expectations - either becoming key players for the next decade or being sold on for massive profit - would this window have been one of the worst in history?

 

[McArchibald]

...
Those which stand out to me:

GK: Onana

Onana signed a contract with Internazionale to go there in the summer

 

[wrd]

Onana signed a contract with Internazionale to go there in the summer

I see no reason why we can't do that with some targets now, they're able to agree deals now and they'll be getting the wages they want knowing they're coming for free.

 

[Boeen]

So, we have heard repeatedly contract numbers out there are likely guesswork, but I did some digging and when possible used the same source to try and get at least a ballpark on savings.

Giovanni Lo Celso: rumor was we wanted OL to cover 100% of his wages when that report came out. I haven’t heard anything about a loan fee being attached, so that’s not being included in any way here (correct me if I’m wrong). Let’s assume 100% wage coverage is the case for Villarreal and the Spotrac numbers are correct, that’s £70,000/week over the course of a 6 month loan (1/31 to 6/30 = 22 weeks) = £1,540,000 in wages saved (no loan fee on top).

Bryan Gil: I’m assuming we got them completely covered here since it’s not much, and I again heard nothing about a loan fee. Dubious sources kept in mind, I saw £41,500/week as his rumored salary. Let’s make it clean and say £40,000/week. Once again, 6 month loan (22 weeks) = £880,000 in wages saved.

Dele Alli: gone permanently, Spotrac has him at £100k/week which seems reasonable, even if it’s a guess. Just taking into mind the rest of season = £2,200,000 in wages saved this season (and £7,400,000 over the entirety of the contract: 2.5 years). and we know there are some major fee windfalls tied into this one that could bring it potentially to another £30-40m, but that’s likely more down the road.

Tanguy Ndombele: Loan fee of £1,180,000 and all I could find on coverage his wages was “over half.” His wages are really hard to figure out (ranging from £120k to 200k) so I’m going to split the difference (£150k/week). Keeping “over half” in mind and the range in his salary figures, I feel confident in putting an £80,000/week coverage on this deal. Total wages saved = £1,760,000 + £1,180,000 (loan fee) = £2,940,000.

In total, loan moves only considered (and really not taking into account Kulusevski and Bentancur adding their salaries back in), savings/fees from deadwood/surplus over the course of the next 6 months = £7,560,000

That, to me, is substantial and why I view these moves as so important. Even if 3/4 of that goes back into the transfer funds for next season, that’s important. Add in the other benefit that if Lo Celso and Ndombele do well, it rehabs their value a bit and may even line up their next clubs pretty easily.

Good post!
You could also say that this come on top other top salaries the last two years that to some extend has not been replaced salary wise.

Annual salaries

From start of 2020/2021 season

Toby Alderweield 4,160,000 £
Erik Lamela 4,160,000 £
Moussa Sissoko 4,160,000 £
Danny Rose 3,120,000 £
Joe Hart 2,700,000* £
Jan Verthongen 5,200,000 £
Dele Alli 5.200.000 £
(Gareth Bale?) 31.200,000 (Im sure if we can count this one?) £


Sum 57.200.000 £

Tanguy Ndombele 10.400.000 £
Gio Lo Celso 3.640.000 £

Sum 14.040.000 £

If both Tangut and Gio transfers are made permanent we could look at around 40.000.000 - 70.000.000 £ (depended on GB) removed from the annual wage budget. I'dont know how how much combidedannual salary are for the players that has replaced these players, but I cant imagine that it is nowhere near the salary from the outgoings?

Source: spotrac

 

[sausage]

I certainly agree that the manner in which people judge our transfers after the fact is often looking at it the wrong way. That summer after Poch for example we signed players because of the goals he had in mind and then he's sacked and now people criticise that window but it's always without the context of what changed.

I just think it is possible to look at overall business (not individual players) and say okay we did that with this in mind and then you reflect at the moment on whether you did or didn't achieve. So you're not going to say Bentacur or Kuluveski was bad business if we fail to meet the target but I'd reflect on the overall business and see what could be done differently. If the goal was simply keep Conte happy until the summer then I imagine that's been achieved but I really do believe the goal of this window will have been to get us to top4 to greatly improve what's possible in the summer.

Difficult though, because we don't know what the remit was for the window, or Conte's true intentions and feeling.
All we can go on is our perception, and it still doesn't make sense too therefore retrospectively judge it.
e.g. IF Conte came about and said "The aim was to get a Striker and a LCB" then you could say "ah, shit window - did neither", but if he said "The aim was to move on surplus players, and add some younger midfield optons" then you could probably say it worked out fine. We don't know what the aim was really.

Before it moves too far from the original thread, I don't really see any justification in judging the window based on speculation of intent - all that we can do is judge it based on what it was, and certainly in context of the activity in the league.

It seems a lot like people project on the manager and say "Conte is not happy because I'm not happy" - often with a underlying intent to claim that Paratici/the club are incompetent in some way.

 

[rebrab]

EDIT: @Snarfalicious and @Boeen beat me to it with better posts!

Btw, on salaries, Bentacur and Kulu between them are on less than 150k per week.

To put it in perspective, Dele/Lo Celso/Ndombele were on almost 400k between them. Thats massive savings.

 

[chinaman]

Question to the Mods: Trix said he would sum up the TW. When he does, will it appear under this thread or in a separate one?

 

[sausage]

The Olivia Newton John song?

Zig & Zag's cover of the Black Lace track

Spoiler

Anyone else have Zig & Zig's album?? It was shit, and I haven't heard it for around 27 years now and it's still burnt into my brain.

 

[chrissivad]

Question to the Mods: Trix said he would sum up the TW. When he does, will it appear under this thread or in a separate one?

Probably this one

 

[Tucker]

Zig & Zag's cover of the Black Lace track

Spoiler

Anyone else have Zig & Zig's album?? It was shit, and I haven't heard it for around 27 years now and it's still burnt into my brain.

I‘m afraid that album passed me by ?

 

[brendanb50]

The issue a few seem to be raising is about the goal to get top 4 and therefore the intention to spend to get there.

While I think it goes without saying that the goal is clearly to do as well as we can in the league, criticism about doing more to get there seems to be a bit one-dimensional.

Who else was available, and likely to come to us, for a workable (I.e. not stupidly overpriced) fee/wage packet, that would have improved us?

I’m not sure there’s many on that shortlist? One you could argue is Traore, if we’d perhaps met the demands of Wolves a bit more quickly, maybe it’s all done before the situation changes, but even then, so many elements which I’m ignoring around his role and his agent.

Not saying we’ve done a stellar job but it’s progress in a couple of areas, in January that isn’t always a given.

 

[SpursSince1980]

I am overall content with the moves we made in January. But it's very hard to rate, as it's like the first move of a chess game. It's kinda impossible to say if the clearing out and setting up targets for the summer is a success or not, depending on what we actually achieve in the summer. If we start preseason with three or four key new additions, that have been identified by Fab and Conte as MUST HAVES before the start of preseason, then I'd say this window is a solid A. As it's clear that a big obstacle holding us back, was making room for others. Yes, I know, I know, I know, Lo Celso and Tanguy are loans. But chances are, they're gone. Then, I'm sure two or three more will be moved on early in the summer as well. (Rodon, Doherty, and one of Lucas/Berg).

Am I a little bummed we were unable to boost the squad with another one or two that could help us push harder for the top 4? Yeah. Absolutely. But I don't think we're all that different from a lot of the other top clubs. Sure, ourselves, West Ham, UTD, Arse, all wanted to bring in more quality, but just isn't easy this time of year. So, it's not like we failed and they're all 25% stronger. Not at all.

Now, it's over to Conte. He likes to work with a tight squad, with all players focused and pulling in the same direction. Hopefully, we have provided him with that for the rest of the season. Let's hope there's enough intensity, drive, and ambition from these players to push for a wide open top 4 spot.

 

[Hakkz]

I see no reason why we can't do that with some targets now, they're able to agree deals now and they'll be getting the wages they want knowing they're coming for free.

Because why would they sign anything now when they can wait and see where clubs finish in the table?

 

[chinaman]

Probably this one

TY

 

[slartibartfast]

Black Lace I seem to remember, something about doing unmentionable things to trees with pineapples.

Was a very dark time for me.
Can't imagine what drove me to heavy metal lol.

 

[bomberH]

Deal sheet didn’t go in mate. Question marks over the medical too. Photos leaked of him scoffing Five Guys after leaving the office at a depressing 9:45pm last night.

 

[daveduvet]

Don't forget we will have Sarr coming to the club for the first time in the summer too.

Haven’t looked at further comments: was Sarr a paratici signing?

 

[wrd]

Haven’t looked at further comments: was Sarr a paratici signing?

Yeah, every signing in the summer was.