The Daniel Levy thread

[tototoner]

WTF do you want us to do differently which exists in the realm of the real and sane!?

Push on instead of standing still in Jan, do Man Utd stand still from a position of strength, do Chelsea ? It has cost us the last 2 seasons, Levy thinks we're doing well enough with who we have now, why add to it, it's myopic thinking

as for your other comments they are not worth responding to

 

[tototoner]

Totally depends on your ambitions for the club (i.e. realistic or not).

Since taking over he's taken us from a relegation threatened team to regular top 5 finishers. We've had one run in the Champions League, we've got a training ground the envy of Europe and we're hopefully edging towards a new stadium.

We've done all that whilst remaining arguably the most financially stable team in the league, so if anyone casts any doubt on whether Levy has improved us or not then they are, quite frankly, completely balls out stupid.

The only way we'll improve is with someone coming in and spending fuck loads of money a la City and Chelsea. That is the only way we'd be any better and people need to realise that.

Some people want that and fair enough. I don't, and therefore think that in spite of his shortcomings and some pretty silly errors, Daniel Levy has been very very good for this club and to say he's 'holding us back' is nuts.

What is the point in being a realistic fan ?

If i was not a Tottenham fan and looking from the outside in, then I would think Levy was doing a brilliant job, but as i fan looking from the inside out I get very frustrated at his failures, haggling and indecisiveness ( stadium and players )

 

[CowInAComa]

well its clear that we either thrash out every deal to the nearest pence and accept missing out on our key targets repeatedly, or we do a Leeds.

If only there was a middle ground.

 

[michaelden]

He is personally responsible for the players we have out on the pitch, he picks the manager and then tries(hmmmn) to get the players he (the manager)/we need to succeed. Has he always gotten this right? No. Has he got some things right? Yes.

The buck stops with Levy and the board, the tales of brinkmanship are far too common to be brushed aside because we Levy got Sandro/VDV for £8m one time. The best was the Levy/Harry signing bullshit, good young player the BSoDL rate? Levy signing all day. Anyone else, Harry signing.

Then there's the excuses...oh these things take time, we're only a small club, we're punching above our weight, we're building a new stadium, chill we got this, patience etc. Comolli and Ramos seems to have been all forgotten about, he was still driving the bus then. The striker business is a complete joke that we still haven't sorted it, we'll see if going back to a DoF has any impact with this now or if we're still going to go about things the same way. I hope we don't, only an idiot doesn't learn from their mistakes.

Facts, nothing else show: -
1) we are a small club compared to most CL clubs and even in the EPL
2) everything takes time, even with billions City took time to win
3) time can be reduced by silly money but it isn't a guarantee of instant success
4) money spent per point won shows we are punching above our weight
5) we are building a new stadium
6) we just finished a world class training & youth centre


oh...

7) chill DL has got this

 

[CowInAComa]

Facts, nothing else show: -
1) we are a small club compared to most CL clubs and even in the EPL
2) everything takes time, even with billions City took time to win
3) time can be reduced by silly money but it isn't a guarantee of instant success
4) money spent per point won shows we are punching above our weight
5) we are building a new stadium
6) we just finished a world class training & youth centre


oh...

7) chill DL has got this

Unrelated but intrigued to hear of the 10 clubs bigger than us in the EPL.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Unrelated but intrigued to hear of the 10 clubs bigger than us in the EPL.

Probably not 10 but there's certainly an argument that the following are bigger in certain ways:

United
City
Chelsea
Arsenal
Liverpool
Everton (iffy...bigger stadium though)
Newcastle (much bigger stadium)
Sunderland (much bigger stadium)

We probably negate the bigger stadia of the two northern teams partly through being able to charge higher prices, but we're certainly way down the list when it comes to attendances.

 

[CowInAComa]

Probably not 10 but there's certainly an argument that the following are bigger in certain ways:

United
City
Chelsea
Arsenal
Liverpool
Everton (iffy...bigger stadium though)
Newcastle (much bigger stadium)
Sunderland (much bigger stadium)

We probably negate the bigger stadia of the two northern teams partly through being able to charge higher prices, but we're certainly way down the list when it comes to attendances.

Youre a maniac

 

[talkshowhost86]

well its clear that we either thrash out every deal to the nearest pence and accept missing out on our key targets repeatedly, or we do a Leeds.

If only there was a middle ground.

I'm pretty sure that, whatever our view, we are in that middle ground.

We did just spend 17m on Paulinho for example.

It could equally be argued that by scrimping and saving we now have the money to go and make a splash in this transfer market (hence us looking at Benteke).

 

[michaelden]

Unrelated but intrigued to hear of the 10 clubs bigger than us in the EPL.

I never said 10 but here is a guesstimate list: -

Man Utd
Man City
Arsenal
Chelsea
Liverpool
Newcastle
maybe Everton as only 2 teams in Liverpool but loads in London

 

[talkshowhost86]

What is the point in being a realistic fan ?

If i was not a Tottenham fan and looking from the outside in, then I would think Levy was doing a brilliant job, but as i fan looking from the inside out I get very frustrated at his failures, haggling and indecisiveness ( stadium and players )

Nobody is saying you can't be frustrated at perceived failings. But those failures have to be seen in the wider frame of steady improvement and based against our competitors and their financial superiority.

If you only look at the failings then why support a football club at all?

 

[michaelden]

Probably not 10 but there's certainly an argument that the following are bigger in certain ways:

United
City
Chelsea
Arsenal
Liverpool
Everton (iffy...bigger stadium though)
Newcastle (much bigger stadium)
Sunderland (much bigger stadium)

We probably negate the bigger stadia of the two northern teams partly through being able to charge higher prices, but we're certainly way down the list when it comes to attendances.

yeah what he said

 

[vegassd]

The buck stops with Levy and the board, the tales of brinkmanship are far too common to be brushed aside because we Levy got Sandro/VDV for £8m one time.

Absolutely agree with this - but it swings both ways. In my opinion, a lot (almost all) of the criticism that gets levelled at Levy only takes into account the negative and forgets the comparison between the overall position of pre-Levy and current Spurs.

For example, "We haven't signed a decent striker since Berbatov" completely ignores the signings of Keane, Adebayor and VDV, forgets that we had club "legend" Defoe and club record signing Bent, and also forgets to reference what a great signing Berbatov was originally. That statement is almost always extended to "and that's why we missed out on CL", which all in all seems like an imbalanced view point to me.

I have no issue believing the brinkmanship. Maybe it's necessary, maybe it isn't. Maybe it helps, maybe it hinders. One thing is for sure... Levy knows more about football transfers than any of us. I think we have been searching for a DOF since Comolli - maybe one of DL's bigger mistakes in not getting somebody sooner - but now we have Baldini hopefully our transfer targeting will improve.
I agree that people often categorise signings according to their own agenda too (ie. chairman or manager) but that's not a reason to criticise Levy.

The real crux of my argument is this - take a single metric in a single season and you can prove that Levy is bad for Spurs. But take all the metrics over all the seasons and I think you struggle to find a more successful chairman in the league in terms of overall club improvement. So let's cut the guy some slack.

 

[Paolo10]

Facts, nothing else show: -
1) we are a small club compared to most CL clubs and even in the EPL
2) everything takes time, even with billions City took time to win
3) time can be reduced by silly money but it isn't a guarantee of instant success
4) money spent per point won shows we are punching above our weight
5) we are building a new stadium
6) we just finished a world class training & youth centre


oh...

7) chill DL has got this

1. The club is as big or small as it is successful, the fact we were in the CL and did pretty well would see us be considered as quite a big club now, we should already be 'bigger' than we currently are if we'd capitalised on our success to the point were we could achieve a few points to get us over the 4th line and not falter while Arsenal fought back repeatedly.
2. My point was more with transfers, from initial links to us waiting until 'Levytime' to do anything and then be gazumped by a club who will act quicker/pay more/meet a fee/not go back or agreements etc.
3. You get what you pay for usually (feel free to mention someone like Andy Carroll in a predictable reply).
4. Money spent per point shows that we are tighter than most other clubs, shocking that.
5. We are, are we? Olympic bid to NPD with still no ground broken some considerable time later.
6. Which was announced 6 years ago and ready 2 years later than expected. It's also supposed to ensure we 'attract world class talent', still waiting for more of that yes please.

7. Oh that's ok then, great.

 

[tototoner]

Facts, nothing else show: -
1) we are a small club compared to most CL clubs and even in the EPL
2) everything takes time, even with billions City took time to win
3) time can be reduced by silly money but it isn't a guarantee of instant success
4) money spent per point won shows we are punching above our weight
5) we are building a new stadium
6) we just finished a world class training & youth centre


oh...

7) chill DL has got this

aren't we regularly in the Deloitte top 10 richest clubs in Europe

 

[hodsgod]

hmmm... and your opinion was based on fact eh.

I did use the word apparent, in describing Levys reputation. And the word may in my opinion. I also believe it is a fact that Levy has a perceived hardball reputation. Therefore I do believe I voiced an opinion based on facts yes. If you doubt the reputation of Levy, then I suggest you search the pages of this forum, Levy is often Lauded for his reputation.

As opposed to the comments I described as pure conjecture, which were an opinion about something that didnt happen.

I stand by my original comments on both posts.

 

[parklane1]

He is not infalliable and should not be immune from criticism. Fuck, even people with links inside the club question the way he goes about things, he's pretty far from fucking perfect and far too many here make excuse after excuse for him IMO.

Agree, there is no such thing as a perfect chairman, however there are far too many who slag him off at every oppurtunity IMO.

 

[vegassd]

Push on instead of standing still in Jan, do Man Utd stand still from a position of strength, do Chelsea ? It has cost us the last 2 seasons, Levy thinks we're doing well enough with who we have now, why add to it, it's myopic thinking

But here lies the problem. "Push on" = spend money.
And you have just compared us to two of the richest clubs in the world.

I think most of us where hoping more for an attacking midfielder in January rather than a striker. Nobody could really forsee both Defoe and Adebayor slumping for so long. What we wanted was some creativity in midfield. And guess what... we got Holtby in. Sure, he didn't turn out the be the messiah but it was still us "pushing on" from a "position of strength".

As a chairman of any organisation you have to justify your decisions to a lot of very smart people on the board. Also to banks. You also have to square them with the government and any other governing bodies that you have to deal with. And within all of that is where the "let's just spend some money" idea falls down.

It's January 2013. THFC employ Defoe, Adebayor, Dempsey, Siggurdsson, Lennon and Bale. How does the chairman justify spending another £20-25m on a striker? That would be the price of a striker to slot into our first team midway through the season.

I'm not saying that all those players are strikers - what I'm saying is that the decision to bring a new striker in when we already have those players is incredibly tough. Of course, with hindsight it's obvious, but at the time I think it's a lot harder than any of us realise.

as for your other comments they are not worth responding to

Thanks.

I'm sure there will be another "Levy is shit" thread in 3 months time so maybe we can talk about the luck involved with signing relatively unknown strikers then.

 

[nicdic]

I can't believe you're using City as a yardstick. They have quality strikers coming out of their japs

City originally wanted Cavani, didn't happen, have had to turn to others. Chelsea also wanted Cavani and Falcao, but neither of those have happened. That's what I meant.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

If you think that Daniel levy is holding Tottenham back, then you have 0 intelligent input to offer the world on any matter. Only the most special of fools would believe that levy has been detrimental to spurs.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

I never said 10 but here is a guesstimate list: -

Man Utd
Man City
Arsenal
Chelsea
Liverpool
Newcastle
maybe Everton as only 2 teams in Liverpool but loads in London

Newcastle havent won a trophy in 70 years but they're a bigger club than us?