The Jol Comparisons

[doowaa]

Jol's tenure at Spurs was class. It brought a lot of new fans, made us a more attractive club due to the football we played and how the big man conducted imself and as somebody said earlier was probably a stepping stone to the next level.

But I'll reserve judgement on this new regime until after the january sales and then after our games against the big four. Our failure in those games bar the chelski win last season and a few draws against the gooners was not in any way good enough for a team with aspirations like our own. We do look good at the moment and Ramos is seemingly getting through to the players and some are playing in ways I've never seen them do before, but lets not get carried away. Saturday needs to happen first. Lets talk about this on Sunday again, see how we feel.

 

[nickchrissi]

Under Jol we used to go 1-0 up against a team... then one of two things happen.

Either:
1) Depending on if it's a late goal, he defends deep and hits long to a target man until we conceded
2) If it's an early goal we go gung-go normally getting a send second & third... go for the fourth and fifth and end up losing or drawing!*

*remember, the reason this happened was because we couldn't kill the team off and score a fourth or fifth... because thats what you need to do at this level... right?

If you want me to, i will list between 10-15 games in Jol's reign in which he fucked up at key times which, in theory, was the fine line between him being a great manager or a good manager that he was when he left.

In my opinion there were many managers who could have 'succeeded' as Jol did with back to back 5th place finishes as all he had to do was coach the players he was given by Arnesen/Comolli. Carrick, Mendes, Jenas, Lee, Davids, Lennon, Hudd, Chimbonda, Berba, Malbranque... the list goes on... it was harder to fail!

Ramos has taken the team Jol was given and is getting them playing quality, effective football in which they look like they can run until next season and still not get tired. The difference between Ramos and Jol is MASSIVE, and i don't mean in weight... Juande oozes class and that is surely rubbing off on the players...

Deep down we all know we are better of without Martin... so lets stop talking about how he was great for us. He was NEARLY great for us, but key fuck ups mean he was only good. Not very good, not average... good.

 

[walworthyid]

We are all forever complaining about players not showing loyalty to the club and all that but Jol would have stayed as spurs manager as long as we would have had him.

I actually think that Ramos is a better manager than bmj, but as somebody pointed out, would he have even come to spurs had we not been as successful as we have over the past 2 seasons? Had we not played so well against Seville last season? No, I don't think he would.

The fact is, we were/are the 5th best team in the prem, we finished 5th twice. So at the very least, despite his being tactically naive, poor with his subs etc he managed to acheive par.

I honestly beleive that no manager would have been able to do any better than bmj in his time.

His memory should not be tarnished by idiots, if we go on to win the league and champs league under Ramos we should all remember who it was that started the ball rolling!

 

[truespur]

Under Jol we used to go 1-0 up against a team... then one of two things happen.

Either:
1) Depending on if it's a late goal, he defends deep and hits long to a target man until we conceded
2) If it's an early goal we go gung-go normally getting a send second & third... go for the fourth and fifth and end up losing or drawing!*

*remember, the reason this happened was because we couldn't kill the team off and score a fourth or fifth... because thats what you need to do at this level... right?

If you want me to, i will list between 10-15 games in Jol's reign in which he fucked up at key times which, in theory, was the fine line between him being a great manager or a good manager that he was when he left.

In my opinion there were many managers who could have 'succeeded' as Jol did with back to back 5th place finishes as all he had to do was coach the players he was given by Arnesen/Comolli. Carrick, Mendes, Jenas, Lee, Davids, Lennon, Hudd, Chimbonda, Berba, Malbranque... the list goes on... it was harder to fail!

Ramos has taken the team Jol was given and is getting them playing quality, effective football in which they look like they can run until next season and still not get tired. The difference between Ramos and Jol is MASSIVE, and i don't mean in weight... Juande oozes class and that is surely rubbing off on the players...

Deep down we all know we are better of without Martin... so lets stop talking about how he was great for us. He was NEARLY great for us, but key fuck ups mean he was only good. Not very good, not average... good.

:clap:

 

[johnny-spot]

Jol might have had weaknesses. But that doesn't diminish the phenomenal run he had. He was a victim of his own success. As two top fives meant more was expected. Perhaps he capped out, but we would be insane to forget his contributions.

 

[truespur]

Jol might have had weaknesses. But that doesn't diminish the phenomenal run he had. He was a victim of his own success. As two top fives meant more was expected. Perhaps he capped out, but we would be insane to forget his contributions.

im sorry, but nothing in the trophy cabinet dates past '99

and believe it or not i was not one of the people expecting CL this season or during lasagne gate. i was just never convinced by him

 

[walworthyid]

Under Jol we used to go 1-0 up against a team... then one of two things happen.

Either:
1) Depending on if it's a late goal, he defends deep and hits long to a target man until we conceded
2) If it's an early goal we go gung-go normally getting a send second & third... go for the fourth and fifth and end up losing or drawing!*

*remember, the reason this happened was because we couldn't kill the team off and score a fourth or fifth... because thats what you need to do at this level... right?

If you want me to, i will list between 10-15 games in Jol's reign in which he fucked up at key times which, in theory, was the fine line between him being a great manager or a good manager that he was when he left.

In my opinion there were many managers who could have 'succeeded' as Jol did with back to back 5th place finishes as all he had to do was coach the players he was given by Arnesen/Comolli. Carrick, Mendes, Jenas, Lee, Davids, Lennon, Hudd, Chimbonda, Berba, Malbranque... the list goes on... it was harder to fail!

Ramos has taken the team Jol was given and is getting them playing quality, effective football in which they look like they can run until next season and still not get tired. The difference between Ramos and Jol is MASSIVE, and i don't mean in weight... Juande oozes class and that is surely rubbing off on the players...

Deep down we all know we are better of without Martin... so lets stop talking about how he was great for us. He was NEARLY great for us, but key fuck ups mean he was only good. Not very good, not average... good.

That has got to be the most nonsensical piece of prose I have had the misfortune of reading.

Are you bloody sure mate?

65 pts, 60 pts, does that have any meaning to you?

We were the epitomy of an average club, not shit, not very good but just average! BJ turned us for a short time into a very good club and also into many people's second club. "What great football they play", "that Martin Jol is just a lovely bloke", "if any team can break into the top 4 its Spurs" etc.

Last season we lost to Chelsea in the FA cup. Yes we were 3-1 up but they have lost only to BARCELONA in 3 years. Then we lost to the Scum, they have lost only to West Ham since they moved. Then we lost to SEVILLE, the same team that have won the UEFA cup for 2 seasons and nearly won the Spanish league. They have also beaten Real and Barca on numerous occasions.

YOU BLOODY TELL ME, WHAT MORE COULD WE HAVE ACHIEVED LAST SEASON?

You sir, are either not very bright or don't know fuck all about football or Spurs!

Martin Jol, best and most succesful spurs manager, points per game, in modern times.

It really is that simple!

 

[truespur]

That has got to be the most nonsensical piece of prose I have had the misfortune of reading.

Are you bloody sure mate?

65 pts, 60 pts, does that have any meaning to you?

We were the epitomy of an average club, not shit, not very good but just average! BJ turned us for a short time into a very good club and also into many people's second club. "What great football they play", "that Martin Jol is just a lovely bloke", "if any team can break into the top 4 its Spurs" etc.

Last season we lost to Chelsea in the FA cup. Yes we were 3-1 up but they have lost only to BARCELONA in 3 years. Then we lost to the Scum, they have lost only to West Ham since they moved. Then we lost to SEVILLE, the same team that have won the UEFA cup for 2 seasons and nearly won the Spanish league. They have also beaten Real and Barca on numerous occasions.

YOU BLOODY TELL ME, WHAT MORE COULD WE HAVE ACHIEVED LAST SEASON?

You sir, are either not very bright or don't know fuck all about football or Spurs!

Martin Jol, best and most succesful spurs manager, points per game, in modern times.

It really is that simple!

u will be amazed with what 100 million will do

 

[nidge]

If you want me to, i will list between 10-15 games in Jol's reign in which he fucked up at key times which, in theory, was the fine line between him being a great manager or a good manager that he was when he left.

I may regret saying this but, what the hell. Go on list them.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I agree PT and somethng else I would like to ask, how many people on this forum would have thought that we could get someone with the reputation Ramos has before Jol took us to 2 fifth placed finishes?

You mean someone with the kind of reputation Jacque Santini had ?

Listen blokes. We weren't fucked when santini left. We'd actually started off bloody well, then hit a run of 6 without a win (the same knid of run Jol hit at least twice in his 2 years). Santini, Jol & Ramos have all benefited from the structure and acquisitions put into place be Levy,Arnesen & Comoli.

I don't think anyone has ever belittled Jol or his achievements. Even me. I questioned some of his methods a long time ago, yes, but never have I said he was a shit manager. And I don't thnk I have read once on here anyone saying that he was.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

That has got to be the most nonsensical piece of prose I have had the misfortune of reading.

Are you bloody sure mate?

65 pts, 60 pts, does that have any meaning to you?

We were the epitomy of an average club, not shit, not very good but just average! BJ turned us for a short time into a very good club and also into many people's second club. "What great football they play", "that Martin Jol is just a lovely bloke", "if any team can break into the top 4 its Spurs" etc.

Last season we lost to Chelsea in the FA cup. Yes we were 3-1 up but they have lost only to BARCELONA in 3 years. Then we lost to the Scum, they have lost only to West Ham since they moved. Then we lost to SEVILLE, the same team that have won the UEFA cup for 2 seasons and nearly won the Spanish league. They have also beaten Real and Barca on numerous occasions.

YOU BLOODY TELL ME, WHAT MORE COULD WE HAVE ACHIEVED LAST SEASON?

You sir, are either not very bright or don't know fuck all about football or Spurs!

Martin Jol, best and most succesful spurs manager, points per game, in modern times.

It really is that simple!

You completely ignore the fact that Jol was supplied with the best spurs squad for 20 odd years, which was only outspent by Mourinho.

Jol did achieve a good standard, but with a team which should have achieved what it did. What Jol never achieved despite having fantastic opportunities to do so, was winning a big game that mattered. Under Jol we choked every single big game despite leading in nearly all of them.

He was a good manager, but also benefited from the most expensively assembled squad in our history (and most peoples history). He did well enough, but lets keep some perspective.

He was the right man at the right time. Did many right things. But who really had confidence in him taking on the big boys or big games. The players didn't seem to.

 

[nidge]

You mean someone with the kind of reputation Jacque Santini had ?

Santini was all hype. He won one title in France with Lyon but, was hated by all the fans they were even protesting to get rid of him while they won the league for the first time. The hype came because he won 8 straight game with France leading to Euro 2004 and that with the best side in the competition and then when it all mattered the side went out with a wimper to Greece.

 

[walworthyid]

You completely ignore the fact that Jol was supplied with the best spurs squad for 20 odd years, which was only outspent by Mourinho.

Jol did achieve a good standard, but with a team which should have achieved what it did. What Jol never achieved despite having fantastic opportunities to do so, was winning a big game that mattered. Under Jol we choked every single big game despite leading in nearly all of them.

He was a good manager, but also benefited from the most expensively assembled squad in our history (and most peoples history). He did well enough, but lets keep some perspective.

He was the right man at the right time. Did many right things. But who really had confidence in him taking on the big boys or big games. The players didn't seem to.

You may well be right! But it may also be the case that the players fucked up/weren't good enough/lacked experience etc.

You mention the big games. Did he tell steed to kick the ball into his own net? Or plan for berbo getting injured against Chelsea and the Scum? Or for Lee to do something silly against Park? Or for us to fall ill against West Ham? Or for Stalteri to get robbed by Adebeyor at Highbury? Or for us to have over 20 shots at goal at home to both Newcastle and Liverpool at home and lose both games? Or for us to beat Man u at OT but the officials choose to rob us?

I could go on. I am not claiming for a moment that he never made mistakes. But this idea that he was a poor manager who only achieved the very minimum of what was expected of him is frankly ludicrous.

We played some of the best football I have ever seen us play, we played with a spirit that we have seldom seen at the lane. Don't let those last few months when events were taken out of his hands ruin his legacy.

I really like Ramos, but he has got a long, long way to go before he can eclipse BMJ.

 

[truespur]

Santini was all hype. He won one title in France with Lyon but, was hated by all the fans they were even protesting to get rid of him while they won the league for the first time. The hype came because he won 8 straight game with France leading to Euro 2004 and that with the best side in the competition and then when it all mattered the side went out with a wimper to Greece.

thats 1 more than jol

 

[walworthyid]

thats 1 more than jol

It is clearly pointless having any kind of sensible debate with you. Jol was shit, there you go, you win:roll:

 

[rich75]

never played that game. dont get me wrong i have a lot of respect for jol for what he did but you guys act like he is a god. he won fuck all, and his record against the top 4 was shocking. at least under graham we won a few and got us a trophy. dont get me started on his tactics at times.

we now have a manager who has the confidence of the players, totally.
Stoof, come back to me in a few years and tell me if we are not in a better position, and quote me on this JOL WILL NEVER BE A TOP MANAGER :violin:

that fucks me off when people say that... have you seen Liverpools record?... not all that hot at all, barely better that West Hams in fact.

( Liverpools is about 4 wins since Benitez took over, West ham had at least 2 last season alone )

 

[truespur]

its the FUCKING TRUTH. go do something else if you cant stand it

not once have i said he is shit

 

[nidge]

thats 1 more than jol

One french league title or taking an amateur club from the third division to the first division. I know which I find more impressive. Of course look how well Santini did when he was at Auxerre. 18 played, 6 wins, 2 draws and 10 defeats including a rather humiliating 7 - 0 defeat to Lens.

 

[truespur]

that fucks me off when people say that... have you seen Liverpools record?... not all that hot at all, barely better that West Hams in fact.

i would happily sacrifice that for a CL win and another final

 

[truespur]

lol u fanboys are hilarious, you're all in love with his personality because it cant be because his trophies