The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[FreddieYid]

TBH I dont think we have, we have just been doing what our par is.

We are 6th for wage expenditure in PL.

Last Jan we were 19th out of the 20 Premier League clubs for net spend on transfers over the previous 5 years!

To finish 3rd and 2nd the past two seasons can’t be classed as par.

 

[Shadydan]

We are 6th for wage expenditure in PL.

Last Jan we were 19th of the 20 Premier League clubs for net spend on transfers over the previous 5 years!

To finish 3rd and 2nd the past two seasons can’t be classed as par.

Absolutely, I don't know if people actually understand our position in the Premiership wealth table, us achieving par over the last few years is utter nonsense.

 

[spursfan77]

Absolutely, I don't know if people actually understand our position in the Premiership wealth table, us achieving par over the last few years is utter nonsense.

Its the same people who want us to spend millions and millions on a player just because its a big number despite the fact that the majority of our big buys over the last decade have been a disaster. Maybe they should refer to the club's accounts and see if they can find any of the spare cash!

 

[punkisback]

Our defensive and defensive midfield signings have been very good, the attacking players not so good and there's a reason for that...attacking players command a higher premium than defensive players and we simply cannot pay enough to get the best or up and coming talent through the door.

Mane wasn't expensive when he came to Saints or Richarlison before he came to Watford. These players are attainable, you just have to scout better.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Mane wasn't expensive when he came to Saints or Richarlison before he came to Watford. These players are attainable, you just have to scout better.

Yes they are attainable, but Mané went to Southampton for more than both Dele and Eriksen, so you can’t accuse us of not having foresight with transfers, we just don’t happen to get every single one. Overall our record on signing ‘gems’ is bloody good and has been since Arnesen.

As for Richarlison, if you’re wanting us to improve, why suggest a player who’d be clearly behind all of Dele, Eriksen, Son and Lamela? Surely that’s just unnecessary impediment to the progression of our current youngsters who are already struggling to be noticed.

 

[Shadydan]

Mane wasn't expensive when he came to Saints or Richarlison before he came to Watford. These players are attainable, you just have to scout better.

That's it, you've cracked it, we need you on our scouting team!!

 

[Bus-Conductor]

You see, the thing is, you still remember that Newcastle team of the nineties. Why ? Because you remember it was a great team that played great football, even though they won nothing. I bet that team is more prominent in your memory than the Wigan or Portsmouth teams that won the FA CUP or the Birmingham or Swansea teams that won the league cup much more recently.

I wouldn't swap winning the league cup final against Chelsea two years ago, for the 3rd and 2nd seasons that followed, because I know just about anyone can win the league cup (within reason), it proves nothing about your football, but it's a great team who can sustain results over 38 games against the best in the country.

I've been there to watch us win most of the trophies we've won from 1981 onwards, and that 81 replay will always be special, I was a 15yo kid, football and my perspectives were a bit different then, but I wouldn't swap any of the subsequent domestic cup wins for last season. I've waited a long time for us to be a proper football team, and I don't mean the "chuck a bunch of great individuals into a lottery machine and spin it" Redknapp bollocks, I mean a proper football team, that is coached, applies tactics, collectively, works hard, competes and plays some great football, goes into every game feeling like we will not only win but outplay the opposition too.

Just to add to this though @beats1 , whilst I do think Poch has over achieved based on the resources of us as a club, and I do believe that is down to a combination of things, largely of his input, and I disagree about him/us needing to won a trophy to validate his methods or success, I do not think he's beyond criticism for various facets of his management, and we both know one of the major bones of contention that we both agree on. Youth integration.

Both Pochettino himself and Levy paid enormous lip service to this when he was hired and in his recent autobiography, in his appraisal of Poch, Levy talking at length about how some managers claim they are into youth integration, but don't deliver, but Poch is serious about it and it was one of the main reasons he hired him. Clearly he hasn't lived up to this with us, certainly no more than most PL managers.

I think Pochettino clearly also shows favouritism. We've all had theories on this before but reading the book it's pretty evident. He'd identified Dier, Alli, Rose and of course Kane as the major influences in the dressing room. I understand this to a degree, a manager's job can depend on keeping the biggest dressing room influences on his side, they will do some of the work for him, keep everyone else in check and singing from the hymn sheet, internally putting down any potential dissent, the problem comes when those players aren't doing the business every week on the pitch (Dier, Alli) or become a dressing room issue themselves (Rose). Those biases (such as the treatment of Alli in preference to Son - selection, dropping, subbing etc or Dier's continual selection in midfield when he's clearly very flawed and there are other options) can start to actually negatively impact performance and results. And worse, they undermine the whole egalitarian and supposed meritocratic philosophy - leading to discontent - when things are working for you, no problem, when they aren't working so well, that discontent becomes a problem.

The whole Sissoko issue is a massive black mark on Poch, from his signing to his selection when there were absolutely better options, like Onomah, Winks, KWP and even Skipp who are all technically and dynamically much better options, if he's walked his talk and been prepared to integrate them better.

His in game management leaves a lot to be desired, again the bias often surfaces, and sometimes just counter intuitive logic ensues that often makes things worse tactically.

Against this, he is the best coach of players I've seen at Spurs in 40 odd years and one of the best around at the moment. He gets things wrong tactically, but all managers do, ALL managers, but tactically he's again the best I've seen at Spurs in 40 odd years and one of the best around in general. I like his overall footballing and human philosophy, collective work ethic. His wholistic approach to football and life.

Generally I think he's a very decent bloke, who connects with people and communicates extremely well. He genuinely improves players. And they by and large seem to love the bloke and want to play for him, push themselves for him.

I do wonder sometimes though, if he's just a smidgeon short of that ultimate unquantifiable essence of something that gets you to the very top ? I could be wrong. But even if I'm not, doesn't mean I want him gone though, I don't believe it would be very easy to improve on him, we waited 40 odd years to get one this good, can't imagine there's a better coach there twiddling his thumbs waiting for us to be managerless. Not even sure improving on him would even be justification for wanting him gone anyway. I don't care too much if we win anything, I just want to feel good about what I see us doing, and with Poch, I generally do and have more than with any other coach we've had in my time and more than most clubs out there right now.

 

[glacierSpurs]

So glad this thread is not shown in my notification until I saw it myself and it directed me to the last 3-4 pages of seeing some unimaginable posts.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Just to add to this though @beats1 , whilst I do think Poch has over achieved based on the resources of us as a club, and I do believe that is down to a combination of things, largely of his input, and I disagree about him/us needing to won a trophy to validate his methods or success, I do not think he's beyond criticism for various facets of his management, and we both know one of the major bones of contention that we both agree on. Youth integration.

Both Pochettino himself and Levy paid enormous lip service to this when he was hired and in his recent autobiography, in his appraisal of Poch, Levy talking at length about how some managers claim they are into youth integration, but don't deliver, but Poch is serious about it and it was one of the main reasons he hired him. Clearly he hasn't lived up to this with us, certainly no more than most PL managers.

I think Pochettino clearly also shows favouritism. We've all had theories on this before but reading the book it's pretty evident. He'd identified Dier, Alli, Rose and of course Kane as the major influences in the dressing room. I understand this to a degree, a manager's job can depend on keeping the biggest dressing room influences on his side, they will do some of the work for him, keep everyone else in check and singing from the hymn sheet, internally putting down any potential dissent, the problem comes when those players aren't doing the business every week on the pitch (Dier, Alli) or become a dressing room issue themselves (Rose). Those biases (such as the treatment of Alli in preference to Son - selection, dropping, subbing etc or Dier's continual selection in midfield when he's clearly very flawed and there are other options) can start to actually negatively impact performance and results. And worse, they undermine the whole egalitarian and supposed meritocratic philosophy - leading to discontent - when things are working for you, no problem, when they aren't working so well, that discontent becomes a problem.

The whole Sissoko issue is a massive black mark on Poch, from his signing to his selection when there were absolutely better options, like Onomah, Winks, KWP and even Skipp who are all technically and dynamically much better options, if he's walked his talk and been prepared to integrate them better.

His in game management leaves a lot to be desired, again the bias often surfaces, and sometimes just counter intuitive logic ensues that often makes things worse tactically.

Against this, he is the best coach of players I've seen at Spurs in 40 odd years and one of the best around at the moment. He gets things wrong tactically, but all managers do, ALL managers, but tactically he's again the best I've seen at Spurs in 40 odd years and one of the best around in general. I like his overall footballing and human philosophy, collective work ethic. His wholistic approach to football and life.

Generally I think he's a very decent bloke, who connects with people and communicates extremely well. He genuinely improves players. And they by and large seem to love the bloke and want to play for him, push themselves for him.

I do wonder sometimes though, if he's just a smidgeon short of that ultimate unquantifiable essence of something that gets you to the very top ? I could be wrong. But even if I'm not, doesn't mean I want him gone though, I don't believe it would be very easy to improve on him, we waited 40 odd years to get one this good, can't imagine there's a better coach there twiddling his thumbs waiting for us to be managerless. Not even sure improving on him would even be justification for wanting him gone anyway. I don't care too much if we win anything, I just want to feel good about what I see us doing, and with Poch, I generally do and have more than with any other coach we've had in my time and more than most clubs out there right now.

Pretty much in full agreement with every word of this.

 

[beats1]

We are 6th for wage expenditure in PL.

Last Jan we were 19th out of the 20 Premier League clubs for net spend on transfers over the previous 5 years!

To finish 3rd and 2nd the past two seasons can’t be classed as par.

See in terms of financial expenditure you are right but that just proves we are a very well run club

Also this isnt something poch is responsible for, this would be the same regardless of manager.

Not to mention, the net spend expenditure is a simplistic way of looking at a squad. As it doesnt take in to account how much our squad is worth or we inherited when poch came in. For example an ageing squad in that time would lose its value as it players start regress, whereas a younger squads value would go up, of course poch has been a reason for this in our case.

When assessing a business you take in to account its assets, our assets unlike most of the top 6 have increased their value a lot due to their development. If tomorrow clubs were to sell all their players we would be around 2nd or 3rd.

My original statement of us achieving par is based on the squad and players we have like:
Top scorer in the premier league for the last 2 seasons plus second highest scorer in the season before
One of the most creative players in the league (eriksen)
IMO the best fullbacks in the league for 2 of the last 3 seasons
The best CB in the league in Alderweireld
One of the top keepers

Just because we are a very well run club in a business sense doesnt mean are drastically punching above our weight, after all we were beaten to the title with a club less than half our budget.

 

[ebzrascal]

Another depressing window all the top other sides will be stronger with the possible exception of Liverpool...

We have small clubs like Fulham and Bordeaux holding us on a string embarrassing

 

[tiger666]

Another depressing window all the top other sides will be stronger with the possible exception of Liverpool...

We have small clubs like Fulham and Bordeaux holding us on a string embarrassing

Was there a point to this post? Anything related to Poch? Or are you just venting?

 

[dricha1]

Pretty much in full agreement with every word of this.

Agree with a lot of what @Bus-Conductor says apart from the Onomah bit. Onomah never shone when given (admittedly limited) chances and is getting mixed reviews at Villa. Winks is injured otherwise would have seen more game time. My only disappointment with Poch and our youth players has been the lack of game time for KWP who was motm first game of the season. Edwards getting mixed reviews from journalists from the local press so maybe there isn’t the quality we require there?...the U23’s are bottom of PL2

 

[DCSPUR]

Just to add to this though @beats1 , whilst I do think Poch has over achieved based on the resources of us as a club, and I do believe that is down to a combination of things, largely of his input, and I disagree about him/us needing to won a trophy to validate his methods or success, I do not think he's beyond criticism for various facets of his management, and we both know one of the major bones of contention that we both agree on. Youth integration.

Both Pochettino himself and Levy paid enormous lip service to this when he was hired and in his recent autobiography, in his appraisal of Poch, Levy talking at length about how some managers claim they are into youth integration, but don't deliver, but Poch is serious about it and it was one of the main reasons he hired him. Clearly he hasn't lived up to this with us, certainly no more than most PL managers.

I think Pochettino clearly also shows favouritism. We've all had theories on this before but reading the book it's pretty evident. He'd identified Dier, Alli, Rose and of course Kane as the major influences in the dressing room. I understand this to a degree, a manager's job can depend on keeping the biggest dressing room influences on his side, they will do some of the work for him, keep everyone else in check and singing from the hymn sheet, internally putting down any potential dissent, the problem comes when those players aren't doing the business every week on the pitch (Dier, Alli) or become a dressing room issue themselves (Rose). Those biases (such as the treatment of Alli in preference to Son - selection, dropping, subbing etc or Dier's continual selection in midfield when he's clearly very flawed and there are other options) can start to actually negatively impact performance and results. And worse, they undermine the whole egalitarian and supposed meritocratic philosophy - leading to discontent - when things are working for you, no problem, when they aren't working so well, that discontent becomes a problem.

The whole Sissoko issue is a massive black mark on Poch, from his signing to his selection when there were absolutely better options, like Onomah, Winks, KWP and even Skipp who are all technically and dynamically much better options, if he's walked his talk and been prepared to integrate them better.

His in game management leaves a lot to be desired, again the bias often surfaces, and sometimes just counter intuitive logic ensues that often makes things worse tactically.

Against this, he is the best coach of players I've seen at Spurs in 40 odd years and one of the best around at the moment. He gets things wrong tactically, but all managers do, ALL managers, but tactically he's again the best I've seen at Spurs in 40 odd years and one of the best around in general. I like his overall footballing and human philosophy, collective work ethic. His wholistic approach to football and life.

Generally I think he's a very decent bloke, who connects with people and communicates extremely well. He genuinely improves players. And they by and large seem to love the bloke and want to play for him, push themselves for him.

I do wonder sometimes though, if he's just a smidgeon short of that ultimate unquantifiable essence of something that gets you to the very top ? I could be wrong. But even if I'm not, doesn't mean I want him gone though, I don't believe it would be very easy to improve on him, we waited 40 odd years to get one this good, can't imagine there's a better coach there twiddling his thumbs waiting for us to be managerless. Not even sure improving on him would even be justification for wanting him gone anyway. I don't care too much if we win anything, I just want to feel good about what I see us doing, and with Poch, I generally do and have more than with any other coach we've had in my time and more than most clubs out there right now.

Like this post. Love Poch --- best I have ever felt about my team is the past few years. Want him here for the next 15 years +.....he isn't perfect but who is. Could be the next Bill Nic with luck and some patience. COYS

 

[DCSPUR]

by the way....his comments today about wenger show how you can be strong and classy....absolutely love the guy

 

[beats1]

Agree with a lot of what @Bus-Conductor says apart from the Onomah bit. Onomah never shone when given (admittedly limited) chances and is getting mixed reviews at Villa. Winks is injured otherwise would have seen more game time. My only disappointment with Poch and our youth players has been the lack of game time for KWP who was motm first game of the season. Edwards getting mixed reviews from journalists from the local press so maybe there isn’t the quality we require there?...the U23’s are bottom of PL2

Its like saying Kane never shown when he was played out of position when out on loan

Harry Kane was played LW for leicester and was considered a laughing stock when he left hence the hate(not that I understand it)

Edwards has been very good, the only mixed review is that he has been injured

 

[SonicSarr]

Another depressing window all the top other sides will be stronger with the possible exception of Liverpool...

We have small clubs like Fulham and Bordeaux holding us on a string embarrassing

 

[SonicSarr]

No, read Poch's book. I Want him to be our manager for a long long time. If you cant get on with him and cant do the hard work to be a winner, then fuck off. Love the bloke. He inspired me in my own life even just reading Balague's shit. Our worst nightmare is losing him.

 

[ebzrascal]

Was there a point to this post? Anything related to Poch? Or are you just venting?

Just venting mate... to be honest should probably quit the whatsapp football groups with my mates as constantly defending spurs being nearly club gets depressing me.
Arsenal and United Fans especially pumped up at the moment is annoying

 

[Doctor Dinkey]

Apparently according to Durham Talk Sport Pochettino has pretty much signed for Real Madrid. The conversation is all about which players he's going to take with him.

Shite, did I miss something?