The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[ChristianBaler]

How far down the list of players Poch wanted was Moura is a question I'd love to know the answer to.

Moura's situation at PSG makes me think it was a Levy special gamble of a transfer trying to ensure a bit of profit in a resale.

Backing a manager is getting them the players they want, United do that, we don't.

Sure, I can agree that for every player A Poch really wants Levy gives him B probably half the time.

Think its far too early right now for us as a club to give manager's the players they want if they are unattainable ie wages too high or price. I know the new stadium will help improve this aspect of the club, but you also have to keep in mind marquee players and wha they want compared to what we currently pay other players who want wage increases

 

[kythg]

How far down the list of players Poch wanted was Moura is a question I'd love to know the answer to.

Moura's situation at PSG makes me think it was a Levy special gamble of a transfer trying to ensure a bit of profit in a resale.

Backing a manager is getting them the players they want, United do that, we don't.

United want to put in a director of football moving forward. Also, they didn't go out and get Toby for mourinho last season so they don't always get them the players they want.

 

[mil1lion]

I didn't realise we had this many Man Utd admirers. Maybe some of our fans are buying into all the hype around them in the media. They're behind us and have been for a few years now. Of course they're a bigger club for what they have done in the past. We're better than them now though and that's all that matters. Unfortunately the media still can't accept this and Poch has been saying this himself. Although even when Poch talks about it people still worry like he's going to change his views. I guess people worry that with so many publically pushing for Poch to Utd that he'll give in and join them. He's a much smarter and stronger minded person than the media give him credit for. They can push it as much as they like but Poch will always make his own decisions in life.

 

[Paolo10]

Sure, I can agree that for every player A Poch really wants Levy gives him B probably half the time.

If Poch was getting his B or even C's most of the time I would be a lot more optimistic about him staying and we may well have had more success on the pitch.

United want to put in a director of football moving forward. Also, they didn't go out and get Toby for mourinho last season so they don't always get them the players they want.

One player out of how many that we could never compete for realistically?

 

[Lilbaz]

I didn't realise we had this many Man Utd admirers. Maybe some of our fans are buying into all the hype around them in the media. They're behind us and have been for a few years now. Of course they're a bigger club for what they have done in the past. We're better than them now though and that's all that matters. Unfortunately the media still can't accept this and Poch has been saying this himself. Although even when Poch talks about it people still worry like he's going to change his views. I guess people worry that with so many publically pushing for Poch to Utd that he'll give in and join them. He's a much smarter and stronger minded person than the media give him credit for. They can push it as much as they like but Poch will always make his own decisions in life.

None of us want him to leave. But you can't dismiss the possibility or those that think it's a possibility.

There are reasons for him to stay and there are reasons for him to go. You have no more idea of the situation than anyone else.

 

[mil1lion]

None of us want him to leave. But you can't dismiss the possibility or those that think it's a possibility.

There are reasons for him to stay and there are reasons for him to go. You have no more idea of the situation than anyone else.

Exept that it happens every time Utd or Madrid need a new manager and the story stays the same

 

[Lilbaz]

Exept that it happens every time Utd or Madrid need a new manager and the story stays the same

Yes, i agree. I don't like our fans panicking and thinking the end is nigh. But i also don't want us to be too complacent and dismiss peoples fears.

I am drunk. I dunno. Just want to find a balance and he stays.

 

[Lilbaz]

We have months yet. So lets try to look forward to the everton game. But i am pantsing it because he is fantastic. Love the man.

 

[mattie g]

Then why be in the thread?

Because I’m hoping against hope that when I come back every few hours and see 8-10 new pages in this thread that perhaps someone had something of worth to contribute.

That was my first post on the subject and may well be my last, so please don’t make it as if I’m stalking the thread taking potshots at people for posting in it. It’s just gotten to the point that I felt the need to chime in. I’ve had my say, so now it’s back to quietly being perplexed at why people are so worried about this whole thing.

 

[Lilbaz]

Because I’m hoping against hope that when I come back every few hours and see 8-10 new pages in this thread that perhaps someone had something of worth to contribute.

That was my first post on the subject and may well be my last, so please don’t make it as if I’m stalking the thread taking potshots at people for posting in it. It’s just gotten to the point that I felt the need to chime in. I’ve had my say, so now it’s back to quietly being perplexed at why people are so worried about this whole thing.

My bad. Didn't mean you shouldn't post. Like it or not it's a subject we're going to talk about.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

The money was there for transfers mate the players Pochs wanted were unobtainable for various reasons. He didn't want to spend what money was available on players he didn't really want.

Also surely the main point was we couldn’t sell enough players to free up squad places so it was pointless signing anyone else as we’d not be able to register them, we already have that situ now with Foyth and CL.

Dembele will go in jan or Summer, so will Janseen and Nkoudu, probably 1-2 more also and then we will have a space or 2 to fill with 1 or 2 decent players. Simples.

We are about 2-3 players away from being right at the very top level, I can’t see Poch leaving that now.

 

[Lilbaz]

 

[Frozen_Waffles]

I am so proud to be a Tottenham fan right now, poch is a major part of that.

He demands workrate
He demands loyalty
He demands camaeraderi
He demands ethics
He demands love
He improves players
He makes a team

I for one would be incredibly disappointed to see him go and the reality is that he would take united back to the top.

I think poch has a free reign at Tottenham and levy backed him when things were difficult, levy is honest with poch and he is probably the first manager he will back unequivocally.

I feel he is frustrated this season but I think he will stay, I really feel he is spurs at the moment, he can create something wonderful here and soon.

He is the best choice for united and the only manager capable of repeating Fergusons feat, he is that good.

If he does go to united then I will put him down as the best spurs manager in my lifetime and I will wish him all the best.

 

[The Long Suffering One]

Not sure any1's mentioned this before. During Sky's Debate, when Shreeves suggested Zidane, Merson shot it down, saying so what if he's a former great player. United player may not listen to him. Basically the treatment that Mourinho got.

I know it's from Merse, but by his logic, if the United players do not respect 2 trophy winning managers, what makes them think them United players will listen to Poch?

 

[Lilbaz]

Not sure any1's mentioned this before. During Sky's Debate, when Shreeves suggested Zidane, Merson shot it down, saying so what if he's a former great player. United player may not listen to him. Basically the treatment that Mourinho got.

I know it's from Merse, but by his logic, if the United players do not respect 2 trophy winning managers, what makes them think them United players will listen to Poch?

Don't think they will. If he goes there he will have to clear out a lot of players (sanches etc...) not sure he could.

 

[allatsea]

How far down the list of players Poch wanted was Moura is a question I'd love to know the answer to.

Moura's situation at PSG makes me think it was a Levy special gamble of a transfer trying to ensure a bit of profit in a resale.

Backing a manager is getting them the players they want, United do that, we don't.

and you know Man United give the managers the players they want how ? Man United certainly spend heavily on Transfer Fees and Wages but are these players the players the Manager actually wanted ?

 

[Lilbaz]

Don't think this has been posted - football 365 is usually quite measured in their opinion pieces
Still presenting the usual stuff about leaving Southampton

F365 Says

https://www.football365.com/news/pochettino-stick-go-mystery-box



football365.com

Should Pochettino stick or go for the mystery box? - Football365

Dave Tickner

6-7 minutes

I’ve never been fully convinced about the idea of Mauricio Pochettino to Manchester United, despite the obvious merits to the idea.
It all just seems a bit too obvious, a bit too convenient, a bit too much of a media concoction: Pochettino’s Spurs are such a clear antithesis of everything Mourinho’s United were that it’s almost too easy.
Every one of Mourinho’s increasingly desperate excuses for United’s travails could be countered by pointing to north London. Didn’t get precisely the players you wanted, Jose? This fella didn’t get any at all, and doesn’t even have a stadium, and he’s third!
While Mourinho led an increasingly dispirited, fractious squad to ultimate ruin and misery, Spurs’ greatest strength remans their unity. Those who don’t toe the line are excised from the group – yet the cases of Toby Alderweireld, Danny Rose and Moussa Sissoko show that Poch’s firmness is backed by pragmatism rather than grudge-holding, and his alchemist’s ability to produce gold from the most unpromising raw materials is a thing of wonder.
Nevertheless, Pochettino remains a gamble for a club of United’s size and expectation. Quibbles about his lack of silverware grow ever dafter in assessing his time at Spurs, but that doesn’t make them irrelevant to his next potential employer – nor does his questionable record in the biggest one-off games. The sight of Spurs rescuing their Champions League campaign from admittedly self-inflicted wounds not once, not twice but three times in the last 10 minutes of their final three games must go some way to assuaging the latter concern, and United’s stated brief lessens the importance of the other.
Because United are already briefing and briefing hard. There can be little doubt that he is the man top of their summer wishlist unless Ole Gunnar Solskjaer goes full Di Matteo and wins the Champions League by accident.
A United source told the Times the next manager will need to ‘build a positive atmosphere’ and ‘create a united dressing room’. They could hardly be clearer if they’d specified that the new manager will need to be ‘a handsome Argentine fellow. For privacy’s sake, let’s call him Mauricio P. No, that’s too obvious. Let’s say M Pochettino’.
Plenty of potential candidates can beat Pochettino in a medals competition; none can match what he has achieved in bringing a disparate group of players both bought and inherited together with the clarity and positivity and unity of purpose achieved with flaky old Spurs.
It seems very likely, then, that Pochettino has a decision to make: stick with the successful yet unfinished project he’s devoted five years to, or take his first job at a genuinely elite club, albeit one that has fallen on hard times. It will not be as straightforward as either Spurs or United fans may think.
Spurs fans expecting unstinting loyalty from a manager with Pochettino’s ambition would do well to remember that he left Southampton for them, and has plenty of reason to feel a touch let down over the last 12 months. But, for the first time in the Premier League era, nor are United a clearly superior long-term bet than Spurs.
There are so many factors involved.
While it’s unthinkable that Spurs will go another year without signing anyone at all, it’s unlikely that a sudden influx of the sort of transfer cash he would be offered at United will materialise.
And yet at Spurs Pochettino now boasts the sort of Wengeresque autonomy and control that simply would not be repeated anywhere else – least of all at Old Trafford.
It seems certain that one of United’s first steps towards sorting a mess that was never entirely about the sulking Portuguese in the dugout will be to appoint a Director of Football. Spurs have been without one since 2016, when Pochettino’s first contract renegotiation saw his job title change from ‘Head Coach’ to ‘Manager’. That is no mere window dressing; he is now the direct line to Daniel Levy on transfer matters, even if that is only to say ‘where are the transfers?’
Spurs’ new stadium is another crucial consideration. Among the generic ‘happy here, but in football you never know’ spiel Pochettino has been forced to repeat many times already in his over-achieving time at Tottenham has been a genuine and heartfelt pride about being the man to lead the team out in their first game at the new stadium.
It goes back to Pochettino’s position of power and influence at the club that he has reportedly been involved in planning some elements of the new ground. Perhaps the ultimate power move for Levy now would be to postpone the stadium opening altogether until next season. You want to lead the team out, you’ve got to be here next season…
And then, of course, there is the ugly but unavoidable topic of coin. Pochettino is on a healthy £8.5m a year at Spurs, but United could smash that. Yet while that is inevitably a consideration, it doesn’t seem like the biggest one in this case.
This choice is not one between ‘lots of money’ and ‘even more money’, it’s this: in an era of increasingly transient coaches and managers, does Pochettino take the rare opportunity to potentially create a legacy by fashioning a whole club in his image; or does he take the opportunity to lead one already established among the world’s biggest? Stick with what you’ve got, or open the mystery box?
That decision is far from simple; he has six months to make it.
Dave Tickner

Sums it up perfectly.

 

[spursfan77]

It's sleeping giant syndrome. Back in the early to mid-80s we were one of the Big 5 clubs. Us, Arse, Everton, Liverpool and Man U. We were always in the mix for trophies and brought silverware home on occasion. But then we got Irving Scholar, who made the club an absolute clusterf***. Since then, all through the Sugar years and much of the ENIC years, we've had our hopes dashed time and again. It's made us pessimistic. It's only natural. And it's a hard habit to break. We expect the worst, because it's happened so often.

Compare that to Man U. In the early 80s, they were exactly the same as us - a big club that fallen on hard times. Like us, they'd been relegated in the 70s, like us they were always in the mix for trophies and won a few, but never consistently. Then they got Ferguson. That was the key to their success. But it took him nearly four years to get it right. Their fans hung banners around Old Trafford calling for Ferguson to be sacked. Legend has it that it all turned on a single FA Cup game against Forest. Man U won 1-0 and went on to lift the trophy and the rest is history. Poch can be our Ferguson, but it's not happened yet. Like the Man U fans before that FA Cup game, we still expect the worst for our club. Winning something will change that and that, I believe, is only a matter of time.

For the first point, old chap, that's the nature of debate. You can't debate someone you agree with. Someone believing that you're wrong is not a big deal. Make your points and counterpoints. And more pertinently, I didn't see anything in @vegassd 's post to suggest that he thought you were wrong - he just has his opinion and you have yours.

Which then leads to your second point. Respectfully, you've not exactly been specific yourself. Or rather, you've taken specific things and speculated and extrapolated the meanings of them. That's not specific, that's obfuscation and is another politician's trick...

Look, anyone with an ounce of common sense will say that there is a chance that Poch will leave. But that's just it - a chance. Not a certainty. Therefore, in the same way that you have extrapolated your view from information you've gleaned, those who have an opposing view have done the same and come to a different conclusion.

There's a little smack of confirmation bias in your view. That you've already decided in your mind what's going to happen and so see the things that support your belief more strongly than everything else. That's understandable and everyone does it. But the thing to bear in mind is that nothing's certain at this point - neither your view, nor the view of anyone else.

Your post about the two clubs history is one I was going to make so thanks for doing it better than me and is one that’s totally relevant. On Friday I called united the Man U of Ron Atkinson, not the Man Utd of Ferguson and I’m glad someone else sees it that way. It’s why standing firm is so important and I’ve no doubt we will.

On another note, there’s no new stories today looking at the bbc gossip page so the press officer shutting down the sky reporter has 100% been shown to be the correct thing to do. I suspect the Sunday papers will give the shit stirring a good go but after that and with any luck it might completely die down for a few weeks until we play them and give them a late Christmas stuffing.

 

[Lilbaz]

I thought kane, eriksen, lamela, lloris, Rose, vertonghen, and dembele were also there.

Yes but they weren't the ones that tried to rebel and be pricks. Levy backed poch to oust the others. At utd you have sanchez etc... laughing and taking bets on the manager being sacked. Would utd's board back poch to get rid of the likes of pogba? Who in the world would pay sanchez £500k a week?

 

[doctor stefan Freud]

Yes but they weren't the ones that tried to rebel and be pricks. Levy backed poch to oust the others. At utd you have sanchez etc... laughing and taking bets on the manager being sacked. Would utd's board back poch to get rid of the likes of pogba? Who in the world would pay sanchez £500k a week?

They are an absolute mess