The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[guiltyparty]

Yeah, just jesting really. Although I do still stand by my belief that they're both pretty limited in the intelligence department.

Check out some of these beauties from Redknapp.

"Peter Schmeichel will be like a father figure to Kasper Schmeichel."

"Arsenals width comes from wide areas.’’

"Real Madrid aren’t in the same league as Barcelona"

"Steven Gerrard makes runs into the box better than anyone. So does Frank Lampard.”

"Xabi Alonso was sensational spreading the ball to Fernando Torres and Steven Gerrard that day.”...After Liverpools 4-1 against Man United – a game that Alonso didn’t play in!

"Most goals are scored between the posts."

Oh he’s useless. His literal repeating of what Alex Scott said the other day was hilarious.

But people are broadly idiots

 

[minesadouble]

I dip in and out of this thread so apologies if this point has been made before. But I haven't seen anybody make it since the Poch-Man Utd noise began.

Poch has made loyalty part of his modus operandi. He truly believes in it. It's part of the man. But he also demands it. From the types of players he gets rid of, to the types of personalities he signs, to who he freezes out when they do anything he regards as disloyal. He fosters a squad and club spirit in everything he does.

He left Espanyol only after a great deal of soul searching. He left Southampton only after disloyalty was shown to him first. In neither case did he simply walk out for a 'better opportunity'. He's an old school "my word is my bond" type. He signed a contract for 5 years that guarantees two things; (I) that he'll earn £40+m over 5 years and (ii) that, in return, Levy genuinely expects him to honour his word and only leave if Levy asks him to.

But my point is, let's just imagine Poch walks into Levy's office and says "I want to leave". Levy reluctantly accepts and we get, say, £50m for Poch from another club. What happens? Spurs will get another manager. Might be better, the same or worse. Life moves on.

But what happens to Poch? That's who this thread is about. He turns up at another club and starts preaching loyalty. Starts bringing in new kids, squeezing out the bad eggs. Makes all the usual Poch demands.

But the media will have written a zillion articles by then. Pundits will spout the new narrative. Nah, when push comes to shove, he's just like all the rest. Football's money inn'it? There's no room for loyalty. Might get sacked tomorrow. £40m? Why not move if £50m or £60m is on the table. Poch is a fraud like everybody else and good on him for it mate.

And when his new squad looks Poch in the eye? They'll know, deep down, that's true. He'll still be a good man, a great coach, all that good stuff. I personally believe he's a special person with rare traits. But he will have blinked. When the ultimate test came along, he'd have put 'his self interest' before 'his word'. Everybody will remind him of it. Forever. Walked out on Southampton? Well maybe there's an excuse for that one (Cortese leaving etc.). But walked out on Spurs? No excuse. The bugger even froze out Walker for the exact same thing. Got his head turned by Wonga and easy silverware. A new song will be sung; He's a fraud you know, that Pochettino.

And that's what makes what he's done at Spurs unique. It 99% can't be recreated by Poch elsewhere. He can never have the same core of youth (our class of 92 equivalent) and spirit fostered by educated elders like Lloris and Verts, burned in the fire of two title challenges we weren't ready for, with Son's smile and Dier's snarl thrown in. He has a truly world class striker who could go anywhere but who's publicly stated "this is my club my one and only club", as the embodiment of everything Poch is saying. In other words, it's a coming together of people and timing and circumstance that's a one off. Ride it to the end, as Fergie did, or lose it.

Unless Levy literally throws Poch onto the street and he then joins another club with his 'loyalty' mantra intact. In that case he might, just, be able to take a new bunch of disparate characters and forge them into a true team, built on loyalty, spirit, work ethic and unselfishness. Even then, it would be an uphill battle. Not winning trophies necessarily, but achieving what he has at Spurs; literally changing an entire Club's culture.

Poch can't have things both ways. You can be a lesser man, a lesser manager, and live by the normal set of rules, and achieve normal results. Or you can be somebody truly different, a great manager, and demand more. But above all YOU have to live by your own elevated set of rules.

 

[Lo Amo Speroni]

I dip in and out of this thread so apologies if this point has been made before. But I haven't seen anybody make it since the Poch-Man Utd noise began.

Poch has made loyalty part of his modus operandi. He truly believes in it. It's part of the man. But he also demands it. From the types of players he gets rid of, to the types of personalities he signs, to who he freezes out when they do anything he regards as disloyal. He fosters a squad and club spirit in everything he does.

He left Espanyol only after a great deal of soul searching. He left Southampton only after disloyalty was shown to him first. In neither case did he simply walk out for a 'better opportunity'. He's an old school "my word is my bond" type. He signed a contract for 5 years that guarantees two things; (I) that he'll earn £40+m over 5 years and (ii) that, in return, Levy genuinely expects him to honour his word and only leave if Levy asks him to.

But my point is, let's just imagine Poch walks into Levy's office and says "I want to leave". Levy reluctantly accepts and we get, say, £50m for Poch from another club. What happens? Spurs will get another manager. Might be better, the same or worse. Life moves on.

But what happens to Poch? That's who this thread is about. He turns up at another club and starts preaching loyalty. Starts bringing in new kids, squeezing out the bad eggs. Makes all the usual Poch demands.

But the media will have written a zillion articles by then. Pundits will spout the new narrative. Nah, when push comes to shove, he's just like all the rest. Football's money inn'it? There's no room for loyalty. Might get sacked tomorrow. £40m? Why not move if £50m or £60m is on the table. Poch is a fraud like everybody else and good on him for it mate.

And when his new squad looks Poch in the eye? They'll know, deep down, that's true. He'll still be a good man, a great coach, all that good stuff. I personally believe he's a special person with rare traits. But he will have blinked. When the ultimate test came along, he'd have put 'his self interest' before 'his word'. Everybody will remind him of it. Forever. Walked out on Southampton? Well maybe there's an excuse for that one (Cortese leaving etc.). But walked out on Spurs? No excuse. The bugger even froze out Walker for the exact same thing. Got his head turned by Wonga and easy silverware. A new song will be sung; He's a fraud you know, that Pochettino.

And that's what makes what he's done at Spurs unique. It 99% can't be recreated by Poch elsewhere. He can never have the same core of youth (our class of 92 equivalent) and spirit fostered by educated elders like Lloris and Verts, burned in the fire of two title challenges we weren't ready for, with Son's smile and Dier's snarl thrown in. He has a truly world class striker who could go anywhere but who's publicly stated "this is my club my one and only club", as the embodiment of everything Poch is saying. In other words, it's a coming together of people and timing and circumstance that's a one off. Ride it to the end, as Fergie did, or lose it.

Unless Levy literally throws Poch onto the street and he then joins another club with his 'loyalty' mantra intact. In that case he might, just, be able to take a new bunch of disparate characters and forge them into a true team, built on loyalty, spirit, work ethic and unselfishness. Even then, it would be an uphill battle. Not winning trophies necessarily, but achieving what he has at Spurs; literally changing an entire Club's culture.

Poch can't have things both ways. You can be a lesser man, a lesser manager, and live by the normal set of rules, and achieve normal results. Or you can be somebody truly different, a great manager, and demand more. But above all YOU have to live by your own elevated set of rules.

Well done mate, that is an excellent post, well written and on the mark.

 

[truebluespur]

Totally agree. Top post!

Walker example is bob on. There's more to it as well, same example extends to Toby. He wanted to go to Utd and Poch froze him out. So if Poch went to Utd he'd look stupid, and I don't think Poch is stupid, far from it.

 

[smallsnc]

As I said in one of my earlier posts, I do not think Levy would/could turn down an offer like £40M for a player who can leave for £25M in July, especially with our stadium debt etc. I think now that Mourinho will not be panic shopping for a CB in January the likelihood of this happening has reduced. But Toby is worth £40M easily. Not sure if any of the top teams need to strengthen at CB though.

Not all teams wait until they can take advantage of a cheaper price ... see Man U paying massively over the odds for Sanchez last year when they could have got him for nothing 6 months later. He was effectively £30M (swap for Mikhytarian) plus £500k per week after tax (?!?!) on a long contract.

If Levy was prepared to, assuming someone offered £40M, sacrifice £15M for the good of the team this season (and Poch's happiness), then surely he'd just offer Toby an improved offer, or a one off signing on fee to sign a new contract if he doesn't want to break our wage structure? I'll be happy when the winter window closes and our squad is still intact.

From what I understand, the issue with Toby not signing was not about the money, but about the inclusion / terms of a release clause.

 

[Zummerzet Spur]

I dip in and out of this thread so apologies if this point has been made before. But I haven't seen anybody make it since the Poch-Man Utd noise began.

Poch has made loyalty part of his modus operandi. He truly believes in it. It's part of the man. But he also demands it. From the types of players he gets rid of, to the types of personalities he signs, to who he freezes out when they do anything he regards as disloyal. He fosters a squad and club spirit in everything he does.

He left Espanyol only after a great deal of soul searching. He left Southampton only after disloyalty was shown to him first. In neither case did he simply walk out for a 'better opportunity'. He's an old school "my word is my bond" type. He signed a contract for 5 years that guarantees two things; (I) that he'll earn £40+m over 5 years and (ii) that, in return, Levy genuinely expects him to honour his word and only leave if Levy asks him to.

But my point is, let's just imagine Poch walks into Levy's office and says "I want to leave". Levy reluctantly accepts and we get, say, £50m for Poch from another club. What happens? Spurs will get another manager. Might be better, the same or worse. Life moves on.

But what happens to Poch? That's who this thread is about. He turns up at another club and starts preaching loyalty. Starts bringing in new kids, squeezing out the bad eggs. Makes all the usual Poch demands.

But the media will have written a zillion articles by then. Pundits will spout the new narrative. Nah, when push comes to shove, he's just like all the rest. Football's money inn'it? There's no room for loyalty. Might get sacked tomorrow. £40m? Why not move if £50m or £60m is on the table. Poch is a fraud like everybody else and good on him for it mate.

And when his new squad looks Poch in the eye? They'll know, deep down, that's true. He'll still be a good man, a great coach, all that good stuff. I personally believe he's a special person with rare traits. But he will have blinked. When the ultimate test came along, he'd have put 'his self interest' before 'his word'. Everybody will remind him of it. Forever. Walked out on Southampton? Well maybe there's an excuse for that one (Cortese leaving etc.). But walked out on Spurs? No excuse. The bugger even froze out Walker for the exact same thing. Got his head turned by Wonga and easy silverware. A new song will be sung; He's a fraud you know, that Pochettino.

And that's what makes what he's done at Spurs unique. It 99% can't be recreated by Poch elsewhere. He can never have the same core of youth (our class of 92 equivalent) and spirit fostered by educated elders like Lloris and Verts, burned in the fire of two title challenges we weren't ready for, with Son's smile and Dier's snarl thrown in. He has a truly world class striker who could go anywhere but who's publicly stated "this is my club my one and only club", as the embodiment of everything Poch is saying. In other words, it's a coming together of people and timing and circumstance that's a one off. Ride it to the end, as Fergie did, or lose it.

Unless Levy literally throws Poch onto the street and he then joins another club with his 'loyalty' mantra intact. In that case he might, just, be able to take a new bunch of disparate characters and forge them into a true team, built on loyalty, spirit, work ethic and unselfishness. Even then, it would be an uphill battle. Not winning trophies necessarily, but achieving what he has at Spurs; literally changing an entire Club's culture.

Poch can't have things both ways. You can be a lesser man, a lesser manager, and live by the normal set of rules, and achieve normal results. Or you can be somebody truly different, a great manager, and demand more. But above all YOU have to live by your own elevated set of rules.

One of the best and most sensible posts to date.

 

[tototoner]

I dip in and out of this thread so apologies if this point has been made before. But I haven't seen anybody make it since the Poch-Man Utd noise began.

Poch has made loyalty part of his modus operandi. He truly believes in it. It's part of the man. But he also demands it. From the types of players he gets rid of, to the types of personalities he signs, to who he freezes out when they do anything he regards as disloyal. He fosters a squad and club spirit in everything he does.

He left Espanyol only after a great deal of soul searching. He left Southampton only after disloyalty was shown to him first. In neither case did he simply walk out for a 'better opportunity'. He's an old school "my word is my bond" type. He signed a contract for 5 years that guarantees two things; (I) that he'll earn £40+m over 5 years and (ii) that, in return, Levy genuinely expects him to honour his word and only leave if Levy asks him to.

But my point is, let's just imagine Poch walks into Levy's office and says "I want to leave". Levy reluctantly accepts and we get, say, £50m for Poch from another club. What happens? Spurs will get another manager. Might be better, the same or worse. Life moves on.

But what happens to Poch? That's who this thread is about. He turns up at another club and starts preaching loyalty. Starts bringing in new kids, squeezing out the bad eggs. Makes all the usual Poch demands.

But the media will have written a zillion articles by then. Pundits will spout the new narrative. Nah, when push comes to shove, he's just like all the rest. Football's money inn'it? There's no room for loyalty. Might get sacked tomorrow. £40m? Why not move if £50m or £60m is on the table. Poch is a fraud like everybody else and good on him for it mate.

And when his new squad looks Poch in the eye? They'll know, deep down, that's true. He'll still be a good man, a great coach, all that good stuff. I personally believe he's a special person with rare traits. But he will have blinked. When the ultimate test came along, he'd have put 'his self interest' before 'his word'. Everybody will remind him of it. Forever. Walked out on Southampton? Well maybe there's an excuse for that one (Cortese leaving etc.). But walked out on Spurs? No excuse. The bugger even froze out Walker for the exact same thing. Got his head turned by Wonga and easy silverware. A new song will be sung; He's a fraud you know, that Pochettino.

And that's what makes what he's done at Spurs unique. It 99% can't be recreated by Poch elsewhere. He can never have the same core of youth (our class of 92 equivalent) and spirit fostered by educated elders like Lloris and Verts, burned in the fire of two title challenges we weren't ready for, with Son's smile and Dier's snarl thrown in. He has a truly world class striker who could go anywhere but who's publicly stated "this is my club my one and only club", as the embodiment of everything Poch is saying. In other words, it's a coming together of people and timing and circumstance that's a one off. Ride it to the end, as Fergie did, or lose it.

Unless Levy literally throws Poch onto the street and he then joins another club with his 'loyalty' mantra intact. In that case he might, just, be able to take a new bunch of disparate characters and forge them into a true team, built on loyalty, spirit, work ethic and unselfishness. Even then, it would be an uphill battle. Not winning trophies necessarily, but achieving what he has at Spurs; literally changing an entire Club's culture.

Poch can't have things both ways. You can be a lesser man, a lesser manager, and live by the normal set of rules, and achieve normal results. Or you can be somebody truly different, a great manager, and demand more. But above all YOU have to live by your own elevated set of rules.

This post should be pinned somewhere, well said

 

[SpursD22]

I’m so done with his love for Trippier and Davies, if you can’t see that both of them are average then sorry I can’t help you because they are

 

[SpursD22]

We won’t win the league but the same hand I’m not scared of finishing outside the top 4

From now on imo our priorities should be the cups and CL

 

[dricha1]

Poch isn’t ready for United or Madrid...still learning... needs to sort his subs (usual complaint)....missed opportunity today to ply pressure, can’t moan about fixtures when we were playing first

 

[hellava_tough]

I love Poch as much as the next guy...but...

It's results like the one today against Wolves, losing 1-3, that are so frustrating.

We go in 1-0 at half time, fairly comfortable with 45 minutes to go. However, we're under pressure to go 3pts behind Liverpool and it's a busy time of the year with games coming thick and fast, so our lads may well tire in the second half.

So this is where Poch needs to use his 'game management' skills to see the result through to the end and ensure that we walk away with the 3pts and move onto the Cardiff game.

And of course we didn't do that; we conceded 3 goals, didn't have a decent chance all half and looked all over the place by the final whistle.

It's the most frustrating aspect of Poch's style as manager; an inability to game-manage in the most crucial games of the season.

It's fair enough if we get beaten by a better team, or we're a bit unlucky, or whatever. But some of the most annoying results come in games that we should be putting to bed.

Of course more money in the transfer market would help, but that's a separate problem to the one we saw today.

Really disappointed!!

 

[dtxspurs]

We have to stop rotating the fullbacks every game. It screws up all of our chemistry in defense and attack. I understand one of these game but holy shit we do it every game it seems.

I'm not blaming him for the loss. We had no options to fix the midfield which was horrid, players looked exhausted but you need to find that extra something to take it the next level and finish off the game.

 

[spuradik]

And when his new squad looks Poch in the eye? They'll know, deep down, that's true. He'll still be a good man, a great coach, all that good stuff. I personally believe he's a special person with rare traits. But he will have blinked. When the ultimate test came along, he'd have put 'his self interest' before 'his word'. Everybody will remind him of it. Forever. Walked out on Southampton? Well maybe there's an excuse for that one (Cortese leaving etc.). But walked out on Spurs? No excuse. The bugger even froze out Walker for the exact same thing. Got his head turned by Wonga and easy silverware. A new song will be sung; He's a fraud you know, that Pochettino.

Whilst I agree with most what you said, but I disagree with this point. There is an excuse. The last transfer window. It was a damning display of our beloved chairman, Daniel Levy, not backing his manager. I refuse to accept we couldn't get any deals done that weren't within our budget.

 

[Saoirse]

Do people see what I was saying with Toby now? The title is gone. We have at best a 5% chance of winning the CL*. And the other two trophies have at best only a slight impact on our prospects of growing, staying at the top table, and winning major trophies in the future. If we can secure an extra £15m to £25m instead of keeping him for another 25 games, I think we should take that and reinvest, and wouldn't assume it was a case of Levy selling behind Poch's back.

*If you assume we have a 50% chance in each round, that's 6.25% over four remaining rounds. I'd wager in the latter rounds against City, Barca, Juve etc we're less than 50%, hence 4-5% overall.

 

[Garbob]

We have to stop rotating the fullbacks every game. It screws up all of our chemistry in defense and attack. I understand one of these game but holy shit we do it every game it seems.

I'm not blaming him for the loss. We had no options to fix the midfield which was horrid, players looked exhausted but you need to find that extra something to take it the next level and finish off the game.

I just don’t understand why the full backs are always rotated so heavily for us.

 

[EQP]

Poch isn’t ready for United or Madrid...still learning... needs to sort his subs (usual complaint)....missed opportunity today to ply pressure, can’t moan about fixtures when we were playing first

He's doing the absolute best with what he has. If he had Dembele, Wanyama, Dier, Aurier, Lamela and Vertoghen back, I doubt we lose this game. Tthe fact that he can't make wholesale changes to the starting line up means he has to play the same 11 in this really busy period which invariably leads to fatigue. In our current situation, this loss was bound to happen at some point.

 

[Lilbaz]

Do people see what I was saying with Toby now? The title is gone. We have at best a 5% chance of winning the CL*. And the other two trophies have at best only a slight impact on our prospects of growing, staying at the top table, and winning major trophies in the future. If we can secure an extra £15m to £25m instead of keeping him for another 25 games, I think we should take that and reinvest, and wouldn't assume it was a case of Levy selling behind Poch's back.

*If you assume we have a 50% chance in each round, that's 6.25% over four remaining rounds. I'd wager in the latter rounds against City, Barca, Juve etc we're less than 50%, hence 4-5% overall.

No bids came in for him in the summer. Why would other clubs spend an extra £15-25m now? If the answer is to strengthen their squad and the £15-25m extra would be worth it to them then the opposite surely has to be true for us. That we would be weaker without him.

Why would we want to be weaker?

 

[agrdavidsfan]

I’m sorry but you give José this team and I promise we don’t lose tofay and I also think we have more things in our trophy cabinets.


Poch is in danger of ruining his hard work and reputation here there’s a dark cloud coming for this club.

 

[dtxspurs]

No bids came in for him in the summer. Why would other clubs spend an extra £15-25m now? If the answer is to strengthen their squad and the £15-25m extra would be worth it to them then the opposite surely has to be true for us. That we would be weaker without him.

Why would we want to be weaker?

Someday we'll stop only planning for the future and plan for the games happening now.

 

[spuradik]

I just don’t understand why the full backs are always rotated so heavily for us.

It's because under Poch's system, fullbacks play high up the pitch and are required to get back and defend. It requires a tremendous amount of effort and makes them susceptible to injuries.

He's been doing that consistently since he got here.