The Merits of Kevin Prince Boateng

[ChRiStOpHe]

I think he does suffer from the delayed impact of the signings he is responsible for such as the youngsters you mentioned and that is unfair and hopefully we'll see the success of those purchases in the next few years.

Now however it seems he's been made to focus more on the youngsters than on the first team. All the reports on players we've been linked with (most notably the Modric interview) are talking about the players that Ramos wants, whereas I'm not sure that Jol had as much say in the matter. We've had some pretty dud signings in the last two years which were supposed to impact the first team squad (Boateng, Ghaly, Ekotto, arguably Bent etc) and I think Comolli has to be responsoble for those because by most accounts he was the one who went out and found them.

I would feel much more comfortable with Ramos exclusively choosing the players he wants for now and DC sorting out the youth and all the behind the scenes shenanigans. It didn't seem that was the case with Jol but it's looking that way under Ramos (although to be honest we don't know for sure).

Depends how you look at it. Are you of the view point that Comolli had the power to go and sign these with little or not input from Jol, or were they mutual signings after a Jol suggestion or a Comolli find? Personally, and this is just going by what I hear, I would imagine that while Ramos has more say than Jol did, I think people (helped by media shit stirring) underestimate the influence Jol had on transfers. I genuinely believe that if Jol didn't want any of the above, he could have vetoed any deal.

Boateng hasn't had the desired impact in most peoples view (mine included), but there was talk that he wasn't expected to blaze onto the scene this year. I've read before that Boateng was bought with the intention of him making a first team challenge for the coming season. I won't write him off yet.

BAE was my pet hate for a while, but as the season went on, I really started to see something pretty special in him. He had managed to go from my most disliked Spurs player to a lad who I really thought could make it big in just a handful of games. Then the poor fucker got injured long term. I know he was pretty hit and miss (missing more often than not) in his first few months, but I saw signs in his game to suggest that he had it in himself to turn into a bit a bargain for us.

Ghaly I think was a good signing. For £2m, we got a versatile player who played a lot under Jol. We then agreed to sell him for £3m (only for Bruce to send him back, the bastard). If he goes this summer, I can see us getting our £2m back on him, so that to my mind isn't a bad deal.

Bent was a biggy. I like Bent, but he is used to a system that really couldn't be further from the way we play. I would love to see Bent make it at WHL, but that one has got to go down a lack of judgement a lot of levels.

There are pluses, too. Comolli was (allegedly) badgering Jol into getting a new keeper. That's now long ago he identified that issue. He brought us Alan Hutton, who I love :-D He brought Bale in. He strengthened the centre of defence with the signing of Woodgate (showing he can look for experience, and not just youth). He brought in Steed for very, very little. He also, and this had got to be a mega tick in every-one's book, brought Berbatov to the club for under £11m.

He's hit and miss, but so are most managers/sporting directors when you look at their overall records.

If his youth signings come off, Comolli really will have done a very, very decent job.

Good news if true as Hart has looked very promising. Would need someone experienced alongside him though I'd imagine.

Anyway if this is true watch him make an absolute howler tonight...just for fun.

That's the thing - Hart would only leave City for us if he was given the no.1 shirt, and there aren't many Cerny's out there, who are both experienced and happy to sit on the bench for most of the time.

I'd like Hart here, but I really hope we don't pay over £6m for him (which I have a bad feeling we will).

 

[Bill_Oddie]

Depends how you look at it. Are you of the view point that Comolli had the power to go and sign these with little or not input from Jol, or were they mutual signings after a Jol suggestion or a Comolli find? Personally, and this is just going by what I hear, I would imagine that while Ramos has more say than Jol did, I think people (helped by media shit stirring) underestimate the influence Jol had on transfers. I genuinely believe that if Jol didn't want any of the above, he could have vetoed any deal.

Boateng hasn't had the desired impact in most peoples view (mine included), but there was talk that he wasn't expected to blaze onto the scene this year. I've read before that Boateng was bought with the intention of him making a first team challenge for the coming season. I won't write him off yet.

BAE was my pet hate for a while, but as the season went on, I really started to see something pretty special in him. He had managed to go from my most disliked Spurs player to a lad who I really thought could make it big in just a handful of games. Then the poor fucker got injured long term. I know he was pretty hit and miss (missing more often than not) in his first few months, but I saw signs in his game to suggest that he had it in himself to turn into a bit a bargain for us.

Ghaly I think was a good signing. For £2m, we got a versatile player who played a lot under Jol. We then agreed to sell him for £3m (only for Bruce to send him back, the bastard). If he goes this summer, I can see us getting our £2m back on him, so that to my mind isn't a bad deal.

Bent was a biggy. I like Bent, but he is used to a system that really couldn't be further from the way we play. I would love to see Bent make it at WHL, but that one has got to go down a lack of judgement a lot of levels.

There are pluses, too. Comolli was (allegedly) badgering Jol into getting a new keeper. That's now long ago he identified that issue. He brought us Alan Hutton, who I love :-D He brought Bale in. He strengthened the centre of defence with the signing of Woodgate (showing he can look for experience, and not just youth). He brought in Steed for very, very little. He also, and this had got to be a mega tick in every-one's book, brought Berbatov to the club for under £11m.

He's hit and miss, but so are most managers/sporting directors when you look at their overall records.

If his youth signings come off, Comolli really will have done a very, very decent job.



That's the thing - Hart would only leave City for us if he was given the no.1 shirt, and there aren't many Cerny's out there, who are both experienced and happy to sit on the bench for most of the time.

I'd like Hart here, but I really hope we don't pay over £6m for him (which I have a bad feeling we will).

Good post that, Christ. Agree muchly.

Just to reinforce your view on Boateng, you may have missed the interview he gave in August after signing when he said (this is nearly verbatim) "I just hope to be able to learn about the English league. I'd be happy to get 10 games this season."

But don't be so sure on the 'poor judgment' for Bent. He had a couple of knocks and still managed a goal every other start behind the best strike partnership in the league. I'm happy with him so far and am sure he'll be the best 3rd striker in the league for us - and behind the best goalscoring partnership...well, you can't ask more than that.

Haven't heard that Commolli was 'badgering' Jol but whether he was or wasn't, Jol's loyalty to Robbo was well-known. It was also commendable. Jol loved/s that guy and given his performance pre-WC you can see why. But he admitted himself that change of ball buggered his brains. He showed signs of recovery in the second half of last campaign, however, as I'm being particularly ruthless recently (sell Huddlestone? Has Oddie lost his mind?) then I'm afraid I can't see a future at the Lane for the former Leeds man unless he develops a 'Cerny complex.'

And I think many of us want better than that for him.

 

[yanno]

Just to reinforce your view on Boateng, you may have missed the interview he gave in August after signing when he said (this is nearly verbatim) "I just hope to be able to learn about the English league. I'd be happy to get 10 games this season."

It is interesting that the grapevine suggests that Del Nido and Monchi still want to sign Boateng for Sevilla, perhaps as part of any Capel deal.

What this suggests is that Sevilla's scouts saw a lot of potential in Boateng, and still think he can turn out to be a quality player. Now, we haven't really seen anything in his Spurs' performances this season to suggest why Sevilla are upbeat about him.

It will be very interesting to see if Ramos, who watches the Prince every day in training and thus has a better view than any scout, agrees.

 

[Bill_Oddie]

Yeah, he was pretty average/shite for us so far. But I've seen more of him for Germany U20s than I have for Spurs and he was unbe-flipping-leiveable for them. His touch, reading of the game and sheer power were brilliant. He scored, set up, and dominated games, setting the tempo against various different types of sides.

Still, how much of a chance can we give him if we want to really make an impact in this league?

I'm sure glad that's a question for Juande and not for me as I don't think I could honestly judge that. But what I do know is that it isn't as simple as the 'sell him' attitude adopted by so many on here.

 

[yanno]

Yeah, he was pretty average/shite for us so far. But I've seen more of him for Germany U20s than I have for Spurs and he was unbe-flipping-leiveable for them. His touch, reading of the game and sheer power were brilliant. He scored, set up, and dominated games, setting the tempo against various different types of sides.

On the basis of that glowing report, I'm more than happy to give the Prince another season to prove his worth. :grin:

 

[talkshowhost86]

I'm sure glad that's a question for Juande and not for me as I don't think I could honestly judge that. But what I do know is that it isn't as simple as the 'sell him' attitude adopted by so many on here.

I definitely agree that it's not as simple as 'he's been crap this season so let's sell him'. My personal view on Boateng is that when he has played for us he's looked so out of his depth that I'm concerned he may not be able to make the step up.

The other thing is that although he's young he's at the age where he should be making an impact soon. The age where players should show their qualities is much lower now and I think Boateng is at that age. It worries me that when the rest of our midfield was being largely pap after the cup final, Ramos still didn't see fit to give him a chance.

So on that basis I'm not sure 'giving him a chance' would really benefit us. But as you said it could be the case that he just needs some games to show us what he can do. It's a tough call and ultimately Ramos will have seen more of him than any of us so let's hope he makes the right one.

 

[nicdic]

It could have been fitness, Gilberto was hardly played due to fitness. I think all players here for pre season will be given a clean slate.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Either way it's safe to say that Boateng isn't on the list of those that will 90-100% be leaving which for me is Robbo, Cerny, Stalteri, Chimbonda, Rocha, Gardner, Rocha, Lee, Ghaly, Tainio.

Anyway that's not ITK...so...nothing to see here.

 

[mil1lion]

I think Ramos will keep Boeteng. People forget the amount of games he missed through injury. It seems that when he was 100% again, he was back in the squad. I've read a lot into Ramos' team selection since he arrived, as a clear indication of who he will sell. Kaboul was fit but rarely selected (even Zokora played ahead of him at the back.) The only reason Ramos might not sell him is beacuse he is still young. Otherwise, he'll be sold for sure. Tainio rarely featured when available (plus we bid for Tiago in january) so i dont think theres room for him in Ramos plans. His passing is not great and i think the energy and pace of Zokora puts him in front of Tainio in the pecking order. Lee is a definate 'see you later.' Robinson is another. All players loaned out. Bent rarely started, despite the fact that we only have 3 strikers, so i expect him to be sold.

I just dont see Boeteng as one of them. He didn't start for us for a while early on, starting in the reserves as his pre-season. He suffered a couple of injuries and had far too much of a stop-start season to really impress. A solid pre-season and he could come good. If he doesn't look up to it in pre-season then i see us selling him in August.

 

[Coyboy]

I think Ramos will keep Boeteng. People forget the amount of games he missed through injury. It seems that when he was 100% again, he was back in the squad. I've read a lot into Ramos' team selection since he arrived, as a clear indication of who he will sell. Kaboul was fit but rarely selected (even Zokora played ahead of him at the back.) The only reason Ramos might not sell him is beacuse he is still young. Otherwise, he'll be sold for sure. Tainio rarely featured when available (plus we bid for Tiago in january) so i dont think theres room for him in Ramos plans. His passing is not great and i think the energy and pace of Zokora puts him in front of Tainio in the pecking order. Lee is a definate 'see you later.' Robinson is another. All players loaned out. Bent rarely started, despite the fact that we only have 3 strikers, so i expect him to be sold.

I just dont see Boeteng as one of them. He didn't start for us for a while early on, starting in the reserves as his pre-season. He suffered a couple of injuries and had far too much of a stop-start season to really impress. A solid pre-season and he could come good. If he doesn't look up to it in pre-season then i see us selling him in August.

Agree re Boateng. Sorry are we swaying off the topic, it's hard not to during a slow day in which only Gary O'Hara is definitely leaving. But yes you are right. It was interesting reading Bill's comments and it took me back a year or so to the excitement of whem we signed him. I would not be averse at all for him to get another year in which he is fit, under one manager and acclimatised to the premiership and England.

The team selections: departures ratio is interesting. Would we reluctantly conclude that Huddlestone may be on his way given the paucity of starts and that O'Hara is very much liked by Ramos given his acceleration into the first team? And am I going to get banned for post non-ITK discussion content?

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Re Boateng: I was one who was very critical of him, he reminded me completely of Jason Dozzel. But in the Odd chance he god towards the end of the season he seemed to cut the mistakes out, and while he didn't do much, he had the odd dribble and shockingly good piece of control and even played a couple of good passes.

Now I know that that isn't much, but it was enough to suggest that he might have something worth trying to tap into. It's a shame he cannot tackle because at his height and strength he's probably solve our defensive midfield issue with a good strong tackle, but I think that beneath it all there is some talent, and after £5m and just the one season I think we should give him another year to try and show it, especially since right now his resale value will be low and there'll be a paucity of takers

 

[Coyboy]

Re Boateng: I was one who was very critical of him, he reminded me completely of Jason Dozzel. But in the Odd chance he god towards the end of the season he seemed to cut the mistakes out, and while he didn't do much, he had the odd dribble and shockingly good piece of control and even played a couple of good passes.

Now I know that that isn't much, but it was enough to suggest that he might have something worth trying to tap into. It's a shame he cannot tackle because at his height and strength he's probably solve our defensive midfield issue with a good strong tackle, but I think that beneath it all there is some talent, and after £5m and just the one season I think we should give him another year to try and show it, especially since right now his resale value will be low and there'll be a paucity of takers

I just think how many players come into a new country at such a young age and in such an important position and do not struggle in a team that has just replaced managers and is therefore doing poorly? That was a stupidly long question but I think the plan in August was that by say November we would be doing well in the league and starting nicely in the cups so it might be time to ease this new exciting talented player into the team.

As it happens, we had a mare and there was probably a huge weight of expectation and pressure when he was finally brought in and consequently and unsurprisingly he struggled. I don't know why I am so pro-Boateng today but hey, I hope he is given a proper chance.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

I just think how many players come into a new country at such a young age and in such an important position and do not struggle in a team that has just replaced managers and is therefore doing poorly? That was a stupidly long question but I think the plan in August was that by say November we would be doing well in the league and starting nicely in the cups so it might be time to ease this new exciting talented player into the team.

As it happens, we had a mare and there was probably a huge weight of expectation and pressure when he was finally brought in and consequently and unsurprisingly he struggled. I don't know why I am so pro-Boateng today but hey, I hope he is given a proper chance.

i echo your sentiments with taarabt. he has shown some outstanding glimpses and i hope that his mistake at home to newcastle, where even woodgate made a horrendous error, is not his last contribution in our shirt!

 

[joey55]

I went on a Hertha forum, where they described him as "the cancer of the dressing room." It was also claimed he got thrown out of the German U21 set up because of his attitude and the negative effect he had on other players.

 

[lukespurs7]

IMO I really don't see Boateng or Kaboul going. They are both u21 internationals for 2 very good international sides. Both have huge potentiol, both have only had 1 season in the PL. Look at what Wenger does and how often players like Flammini,Senderos,and many others are written off after their 1st season but given 2-3 seasons look a completely different player. We signed these 2 mostly for the future. They are both still quite young and i'd be very suprised and dissapointed if we sold either. Boeteng is a good talent just needs to be developed, same with Kaboul.

 

[Bingy]

It has been, correctly, mentioned that when we brought many of these 18-22 type players it was an investment in the 2010 + THFC squad. As happens, many, will mature quickly while others may not develop at all....or more slowly at best.
We have a decent array of U-21's from the best soccer playing countries in Europe and talent like that is usually pretty dependable, barring injury!
So, in conclusion....with an additional 2 0r 3 'first teamers' for next season (08/09) we can challenge for Top 4, again, but, with the lessons of last year still palpable, we are also STRONG in the area of youngsters! COYS!

 

[dcarney75]

Exactly, and in the case of KPB, he's clearly highly rated by some. He's only had a few games and has showed flashes of what he can do.

It seems pretty obvious to give him a bit more time, doesn't it?

 

[barry]

IMO I really don't see Boateng or Kaboul going. They are both u21 internationals for 2 very good international sides. Both have huge potentiol, both have only had 1 season in the PL. Look at what Wenger does and how often players like Flammini,Senderos,and many others are written off after their 1st season but given 2-3 seasons look a completely different player. We signed these 2 mostly for the future. They are both still quite young and i'd be very suprised and dissapointed if we sold either. Boeteng is a good talent just needs to be developed, same with Kaboul.

Senderos is still shit though

 

[Locotoro]

I think KPB and Taarabt are in the same boat(eng) lol.

we can all see that they have the potential and they dont get much opportunity. But when they do get a chance, they try too hard and play worse than expected.

Kaboul was played far too much (out of necessity) and didnt adapt to the league quickly enough, we also though dawson was ready to lead but were obviously wrong.

Compare those 3 to say our very own o'hara (not gary, he's been released). We can see that in fact his technical ability is limited (an unfortunate fact) but he play so often as a rookie because he keeps his cool. He doesnt try and impress but he goes about his business in a very simple fashion.

To be honest im not sure how you get around this problem. Give the player more playing time and hope they become more relaxed and play to their strengths, but risk their mistakes early on?? Let them go on loan and pick up the action they need but still come back to spurs with a heart in the mouth anxiety (plus not getting used to our system)?? or...well i dont know an alternative

 

[Kendall]

Either way it's safe to say that Boateng isn't on the list of those that will 90-100% be leaving which for me is Robbo, Cerny, Stalteri, Chimbonda, Rocha, Gardner, Rocha, Lee, Ghaly, Tainio.

Anyway that's not ITK...so...nothing to see here.

Is Rocha that bad he's leaving twice? :wink: