The ousting of Daniel (COYS)

[CheeseGromit]

So why don't we win anything if, as you seem to think they do/did a good job?
Levy doesn't worry about winning things and doesn't appear to think about our DNA with the managers he hires. As long as he keeps getting money going into the club he's happy with 4th place cos we get CL money year after year.
Yes he buys players that he wants but not always who the manager wants.

I dont really get the qoutes " Levy doesnt worry about winning things" and "He buys players that he wants" I have never seen evidence to support either of those statements om anybody
If it were suggested that he takes a balance approach to success and financial stability that doesnt suit fans then I accept that.

I think Levy does want to be the best club ( of everything) He is not the most cavalier Chairman and he has been (maybe over) prudent with his release of money and negotiations. I believe he does has a vision for the club but where he differs from fans is that his vision will take time to achieve The stadium is designed to provide income that is not solely based on on fields results. However fans want success right now By reding comments most fans want us to go 38 & 0 in a league season and win 4 cups and dont worry if £50m is spent on a player who is a flop.

I love the club and want it to be successful and be the best be we are competing in competitions where as greater than a general rule money buys success and we are not the richest (yet !)

 

[yido_number1]

I dont really get the qoutes " Levy doesnt worry about winning things" and "He buys players that he wants" I have never seen evidence to support either of those statements om anybody
If it were suggested that he takes a balance approach to success and financial stability that doesnt suit fans then I accept that.

I think Levy does want to be the best club ( of everything) He is not the most cavalier Chairman and he has been (maybe over) prudent with his release of money and negotiations. I believe he does has a vision for the club but where he differs from fans is that his vision will take time to achieve The stadium is designed to provide income that is not solely based on on fields results. However fans want success right now By reding comments most fans want us to go 38 & 0 in a league season and win 4 cups and dont worry if £50m is spent on a player who is a flop.

I love the club and want it to be successful and be the best be we are competing in competitions where as greater than a general rule money buys success and we are not the richest (yet !)

Ask Conte about Spence and he'll tell you he was a club signing. Is that evidence enough that Levy buys the players he wants? How much time are we giving Levy? Is 20 years enough? Shall we give him 40 and see what happens?

Leicester, Wigan, Birmingham have all won more thatn us

 

[For the love of Spurs]

I dont really get the qoutes " Levy doesnt worry about winning things" and "He buys players that he wants" I have never seen evidence to support either of those statements om anybody
If it were suggested that he takes a balance approach to success and financial stability that doesnt suit fans then I accept that.

I think Levy does want to be the best club ( of everything) He is not the most cavalier Chairman and he has been (maybe over) prudent with his release of money and negotiations. I believe he does has a vision for the club but where he differs from fans is that his vision will take time to achieve The stadium is designed to provide income that is not solely based on on fields results. However fans want success right now By reding comments most fans want us to go 38 & 0 in a league season and win 4 cups and dont worry if £50m is spent on a player who is a flop.

I love the club and want it to be successful and be the best be we are competing in competitions where as greater than a general rule money buys success and we are not the richest (yet !)

No one is saying he doesn’t want to win anything, I am sure Reading would like to win the Champions League. Rather it’s whether we really and truly push for winning trophies. He isn’t going to say anything on that matter of course but circumstantial evidence is pretty clear.

1 sacks Jose Mourinho 5 days before a cup final, ok we would probably lose anyway but not helpful.

2 never backs hard when we are on top, both with Redknapp and Poch a few more top players could have got us over the line. We invest when we are on the decline more.

3 Our managers mostly seem to focus on the league and play very weakened teams in cups.

Our model is very much grab 4th spot and that is a trophy model. There doesn’t seem to be any burning desire to either win a title or play decent football. That is why many fans are very frustrated with the club and it’s lack or limited vision on the pitch. We would like a trophy but it’s not a major priority certainly not one to make any major sacrifices over.

 

[gaffers]

I dont really get the qoutes " Levy doesnt worry about winning things" and "He buys players that he wants" I have never seen evidence to support either of those statements om anybody
If it were suggested that he takes a balance approach to success and financial stability that doesnt suit fans then I accept that.

I think Levy does want to be the best club ( of everything) He is not the most cavalier Chairman and he has been (maybe over) prudent with his release of money and negotiations. I believe he does has a vision for the club but where he differs from fans is that his vision will take time to achieve The stadium is designed to provide income that is not solely based on on fields results. However fans want success right now By reding comments most fans want us to go 38 & 0 in a league season and win 4 cups and dont worry if £50m is spent on a player who is a flop.

I love the club and want it to be successful and be the best be we are competing in competitions where as greater than a general rule money buys success and we are not the richest (yet !)

mate https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pag.../articles/deloitte-football-money-league.html

 

[Stavrogin]

So why don't we win anything if, as you seem to think they do/did a good job?
Levy doesn't worry about winning things and doesn't appear to think about our DNA with the managers he hires. As long as he keeps getting money going into the club he's happy with 4th place cos we get CL money year after year.
Yes he buys players that he wants but not always who the manager wants.

This isn't a good argument on almost every level.

Firstly, you don't know that he doesn't care about winning things. Poor cup defeats seem to be a big factor in managers getting sacked and there's never been any information about how managers were told to prioritise a certain competition. The only evidence to that end is sacking Mourinho before the final - but we don't know the reality of it. Maybe he thought Mason would change the mood and maximise our chances; the idea that Mourinho would have been the best option was not so apparent at the time - so it could have been an example of him actually trying to win (he studied land economy, no one is claiming he's a genius).

Secondly, it's not good to judge how good things are based on winning knock-out tournaments. As an extreme example take the CL final. We almost won the biggest competition in football whilst being absolutely atrocious. Similarly we've been playing well but had unluckly games or gone up highly motivated teams with much more financial power. There's such an element of luck that you can't judge things purely on winning but more so on how competitve we are.

We've shown we have the capacity to go far in the competitions, so at which point do you say that the club has provided enough of a platform to win something and in a handful of games it comes down to luck, the players or the manager? People seem to have adopted this view that because Levy is in charge he is responsible for everything that happens and he shouldn't make mistakes, as if he's god or something.

We've grown and expanded massively in recent years. From a small stadium and no europe to frequent Champions league campaigns and a top stadium and facilities. We used to have to sell our top players, now we are able to keep some of our best players ever, even whilst the sport has become even more unequal. No other club has done what we've done. No other club has moved into the upper echelons without massive external investment.

We've had a bad period. But we were also in a state of transition, from a middling club to a bigger one. Mourinho, Espirito Santo and Conte were not right in retrospect. Do you blame Levy for hiring them? Or credit him for removing them and keeping us relevant whilst trying to rectify the problems he is obviously aware of?

We could talk about this forever. It's not disimilar to the arguments about string theory. I won't talk about Levy any more, this is futile.

 

[Yid-ol]

Ask Conte about Spence and he'll tell you he was a club signing. Is that evidence enough that Levy buys the players he wants? How much time are we giving Levy? Is 20 years enough? Shall we give him 40 and see what happens?

Leicester, Wigan, Birmingham have all won more thatn us

Fully agree he wasn't a Conte signing, but we also need to look to get some of these good young players in before they cost us 5 times as much later. Some will work and some won't.

We have bought a load of shit though, but no idea how many are managers picks and how many were bought by levy/someone else recommending

 

[yido_number1]

Fully agree he wasn't a Conte signing, but we also need to look to get some of these good young players in before they cost us 5 times as much later. Some will work and some won't.

We have bought a load of shit though, but no idea how many are managers picks and how many were bought by levy/someone else recommending

Point being Levy is acting like a director of football and signing players. The op said he wasnt

 

[rossdapep]

Paratici coming under a bit of stick for his managerial options, and whilst I certainly agree with that and think his selections are haphazard, it's not a good look for Levy.

He appointed Paratici because he was a tough negotiator and wanted the success he'd had at Juventus to "rub off" on us.

So Paratici is operating in the same manner he did at Juventus. Look for talents top talents and hire a winning coach to get the most out of it. There's not much more to it than that and raising standards.

The issue is we are not that club we need a lot of steps in place because we cant just throw money at it until it works.

So why Levy didn't just appoint a DOF who could restructure the whole football side of things to match the model of the way club buys players and wishes to bring players through the academy is a mystery.

 

[rossdapep]

I suppose some of us have to take the blame too.

Its now easy to see that under a coach like Poch it was actually working and hiring coaches like Jose or Conte and bringing a "winning" culture to the club has actually been the wrong step.

What probably should have happened is a modernisation of the structure at the club and continued on the path.

 

[mil1lion]

I'm sure Levy wants to win things but he wants to do it his way. Unfortunately his way is highly unlikely to work. He said himself that the spending by other teams is unsustainable. Yet it is and will remain to be for a long time. This is the sport now and I think Levy is behind the times now. He will never be that guy who spends 200m in a window to really have a go for it. He will try to sign more young players and hope they all develop into top players like under Poch. Trouble is our rivals sign these players and also sign players who have broken through. We'll always be playing catch up waiting for another squad to develop and even then we may fall short.

 

[daveduvet]

I'm sure Levy wants to win things but he wants to do it his way. Unfortunately his way is highly unlikely to work. He said himself that the spending by other teams is unsustainable. Yet it is and will remain to be for a long time. This is the sport now and I think Levy is behind the times now. He will never be that guy who spends 200m in a window to really have a go for it. He will try to sign more young players and hope they all develop into top players like under Poch. Trouble is our rivals sign these players and also sign players who have broken through. We'll always be playing catch up waiting for another squad to develop and even then we may fall short.

He tampers with the buying of players as ‘would be profit margins’. Naturally, this undermines the coach/manager way of doing things .. because he is investment oriented he will always be tempted to operate in the transfer window. Until this stops we will carry on ‘not’ listening to what is best for the team/squad. Recent examples being Spence & Bissouma.

 

[Dazzazzad]

Ask Conte about Spence and he'll tell you he was a club signing. Is that evidence enough that Levy buys the players he wants?

It's evidence that the club has scouts and a DoF whose job it is to identify young talent with a long term view of their success not only buy players for a manager who is not a scout and may not even be here 12 months later.

 

[chas vs dave]

mate https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pag.../articles/deloitte-football-money-league.html

The mad thing is that we won't be far off utd this season, them being out of CL, and us being in is around a 140m swing.

 

[CheeseGromit]

Ask Conte about Spence and he'll tell you he was a club signing. Is that evidence enough that Levy buys the players he wants? How much time are we giving Levy? Is 20 years enough? Shall we give him 40 and see what happens?

Leicester, Wigan, Birmingham have all won more thatn us

Levy negotiated the contract Did he make the first move to buy the player ?

And look at them now Happy to be a Wigan supporter

 

[RELISYS]

Ask Conte about Spence and he'll tell you he was a club signing. Is that evidence enough that Levy buys the players he wants? How much time are we giving Levy? Is 20 years enough? Shall we give him 40 and see what happens?

Leicester, Wigan, Birmingham have all won more thatn us

Nope that's not evidence that Levy buys the players he wants. We know Conte did not want him but suppose Paratic did and brought him in on his recommendation? So it's a case of Levy backing the Director Of Football rather then the Manager, because from what I have been told that's exactly what happened.

 

[CheeseGromit]

mate https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pag.../articles/deloitte-football-money-league.html

I'm not quite sure of your point

However this article is looking at a point in time How many of the clubs above us have been there for years or rescued by obscene abouts of money from a benefactor

 

[yido_number1]

Nope that's not evidence that Levy buys the players he wants. We know Conte did not want him but suppose Paratic did and brought him in on his recommendation? So it's a case of Levy backing the Director Of Football rather then the Manager, because from what I have been told that's exactly what happened.

As if it was Paratici. Come on get real. Imagine Paratici tells levy he wants to sign players Conte doesn't want. Spence was with an agency friendly to levy and he saw an opportunity to interfere and sign his next walker or rose.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

How much time are we giving Levy? Is 20 years enough? Shall we give him 40 and see what happens?

You have a spare £4B in your back pocket? We are giving him time until someone finds that...

 

[CheeseGromit]

No one is saying he doesn’t want to win anything, I am sure Reading would like to win the Champions League. Rather it’s whether we really and truly push for winning trophies. He isn’t going to say anything on that matter of course but circumstantial evidence is pretty clear.

1 sacks Jose Mourinho 5 days before a cup final, ok we would probably lose anyway but not helpful.

2 never backs hard when we are on top, both with Redknapp and Poch a few more top players could have got us over the line. We invest when we are on the decline more.

3 Our managers mostly seem to focus on the league and play very weakened teams in cups.

Our model is very much grab 4th spot and that is a trophy model. There doesn’t seem to be any burning desire to either win a title or play decent football. That is why many fans are very frustrated with the club and it’s lack or limited vision on the pitch. We would like a trophy but it’s not a major priority certainly not one to make any major sacrifices over.

I am saying he has a strategy and that is to win things Its just not in the same time frame as impatient fans. We have made significant progress but not as much as fans would like. We certainly are more likely to progress than Reading!

Be fair The majority of fans had turned against Mourinho . But not the best time to sack a manager but I certainly dont think it was either on a whim or piss off the fans

Redknapp had the best Spurs side of the modern era and he didnt win anything!
The majority believe Poch achieved the most Mistakes were made Rumoured of course that Poch turned down players offered. Levy didnt buy them so he wasnt just running the show I think they both believe they made errors.

There is a history of smaller squads focusing on the league agreed Having a large squad costs dearly and could be detrimental to sustainability

I agree that he is trying to make Spurs a CL team season after season This will help with revenues. Remember that a lot of the big sides in the CL are there year after year and are the richest sides in Europe. This doesnt happen to sides who have one good year of revenue. Several have pointed out sides who have won things whilst we havent But in that list are sides who are now in dire financial trouble Domestically just look at Portsmouth and Wigan

Also I believe we have had better European nights since Leicester won the league than they have. Look at heir current situation

Of course I want more But I also want a club for all time and I dont want a club that spends ill gotten gains to buy a title However get on with DL

 

[yido_number1]

You have a spare £4B in your back pocket? We are giving him time until someone finds that...

The pressure needs to be upped on them to move on. It's worked at other clubs and we need the same if we are to challenge and win things. They've had 20 years and shouldn't get any more.