The ousting of Daniel (COYS)

[cliff jones]

A point I’ve agreed with all along.

We’d be even worse off with a lower turnover though.

Do you think our turnover would be higher next season without European football?

 

[KaribYid]

That's fair.

I don't mind if people don't want to talk about that side of the club. If anything I'd prefer it if football chat and punditry focused more on the actual game more.

I just find it strange that some posters dismiss the business side as having no factor on the playing side.

Because for us recently, it hasn't.

From 2019 to 2022 we had total revenues of 1.7 billion (460.7m, 402.4m, 361.9m and 444.0m). The four year period before that from 2015 to 2018 we had total revenue of 1.1bn (196.4m, 209.8m, 309.7m and 380.7m).

That's a 600m increase in revenue between both periods and a huge increase from 196.4m in 2015 to 444.0 in 2022. That 2022 figure is from the Conference League year btw so its very likely to be higher the next time we release accounts having been in CL.

Now, ask any fan which period of Spurs they'd prefer, 2015-18 or 2019-22, despite that clear improvement in the business side?

Ultimately, having a good football business is useless without football strategy. Some of our fans and the Club themselves point to the fact that we've spent a considerably higher amount on transfers since the new stadium opened but when you're spending that much but on four different permanent managers with four different playing styles then at point it's actually wasted spending which is exactly what happened at Everton.

So whilst in theory the good performance in the business side should correlate to good performance on the football side, it doesn't if there's no coherence in the football strategy to join the two sides together.

 

[dontcallme]

Because for us recently, it hasn't.

From 2019 to 2022 we had total revenues of 1.7 billion (460.7m, 402.4m, 361.9m and 444.0m). The four year period before that from 2015 to 2018 we had total revenue of 1.1bn (196.4m, 209.8m, 309.7m and 380.7m).

That's a 600m increase in revenue between both periods and a huge increase from 196.4m in 2015 to 460.7m in 2022. That 2022 figure is from the Conference League year btw so its very likely to be higher the next time we release accounts having been in CL.

Now, ask any fan which period of Spurs they'd prefer, 2015-18 or 2019-22, despite that clear improvement in the business side?

Ultimately, having a good football business is useless without football strategy. Some of our fans point to the fact that we've spent a considerably higher amount since the new stadium opened but when you're spending that much but on four different permanent managers with four different playing styles then at point it's actually wasted spending which is exactly what happened at Everton.

So whilst in theory the good performance in the business side should correlate to good performance on the football side, it doesn't if there's no coherence in the football strategy to join the two sides together.

I think increased turnover results on better performances over a longer period. Our general league finishes have improved in line with our increased turnover.

This doesn't stop individual seasons being poor though.

But anyway, I think the turnover discussion is getting a bit dull. As you say, other factors are a much bigger issue right now,

 

[mmidgers]

That's fair.

I don't mind if people don't want to talk about that side of the club. If anything I'd prefer it if football chat and punditry focused more on the actual game more.

I just find it strange that some posters dismiss the business side as having no factor on the playing side.

It's kind of ironic though that since we've moved into the new stadium and secured major deals for concerts and sporting events etc. that the club's previous upward trajectory had taken a nosedive. Obviously if the club was a well oiled machine the two would be working in tandem, but it does suggest that the football side of things relies more on something else then having tons of money coming in.

 

[dontcallme]

It's kind of ironic though that since we've moved into the new stadium and secured major deals for concerts and sporting events etc. that the club's previous upward trajectory had taken a nosedive. Obviously if the club was a well oiled machine the two would be working in tandem, but it does suggest that the football side of things relies more on something else then having tons of money coming in.

Well look at Chelsea. They've been run every bit as badly as Leeds in the Risdale era. They just don't suffer the consequences as they won't go broke and they can always afford players good enough to keep them in the top half, regardless of how many times they hire Frank Lampard.

The financial structure we have in place, means the likelihood of us getting relegated is pretty low.

 

[Cochraam]

I would really like to know what are board do day-to-day. How are they spending their time right now? We obviously don't have a new manager or DoF, but the impression from the outside is that we don't even know who we want to target for those positions! I'm not against taking some time to make the right decision, but we're 60+ days without a coach and over a month without a DoF, plus we had plenty of warning of both departures prior to that. How much time is needed to make this decision? This seems like a five-alarm situation that should be way further advanced than it is now, even if I never expected a formal announcement before the end of the season. From the outside looking in, it all appears calamitous.

It also brings up another point, that bothers me, which is how our club deals with media. I get they are embarrassed by having their dirty laundry aired out a couple years ago, so I understand the desire this time around to clamp down on leaks. But, strategically feeding some info to the media that paints you in a positive light is surely the move here, right? Journalists will be asked to fill column pages, and would love club sources on background, but absent that may report on dodgy rumors. It's not like being silent means nothing gets out. I think the club would be better served feeding some info like "sources say the board is making progress in its search and is proceeding with a methodical process with the aid of a well-regarded search firm." Or whatever. Something like that may help fans feel like there's a competent process in place. But when we do engage in something like this with e.g., the Nagelsmann briefing, we do it in such an absurd ham-fisted way that makes the board look even less competent than saying nothing!

 

[JayB]

Bayern have just reportedly sacked Kahn and Salihamidzic moments after winning the league.

This is what a properly-run club looks like -- by Bayern's lofty standards this season was a bit of a shambles both on and off the pitch, and so those responsible have been held accountable.

Shows exactly why the one person who cannot be sacked should never be the one overseeing the day-to-day sporting operations. Putting the infrastructure Levy has built to the side, in footballing terms we've been a disaster for a long time, and yet we see the same shambolic patterns of dysfunction playing out year after year after year.

Nothing will ever change at this club until the Lewises step in and relieve Levy of any responsibility over footballing operations, if not remove him from the board altogether. Everything else is just noise.

 

[BoringOldFan]

Bayern have just reportedly sacked Kahn and Salihamidzic moments after winning the league.

This is what a properly-run club looks like -- by Bayern's lofty standards this season was a bit of a shambles both on and off the pitch, and so those responsible have been held accountable.

Shows exactly why the one person who cannot be sacked should never be the one overseeing the day-to-day sporting operations. Putting the infrastructure Levy has built to the side, in footballing terms we've been a disaster for a long time, and yet we see the same shambolic patterns of dysfunction playing out year after year after year.

Nothing will ever change at this club until the Lewises step in and relieve Levy of any responsibility over footballing operations, if not remove him from the board altogether. Everything else is just noise.

Well said.

If anyone is interested in how to run a club properly…

 

[yankspurs]

Bayern have just reportedly sacked Kahn and Salihamidzic moments after winning the league.

This is what a properly-run club looks like -- by Bayern's lofty standards this season was a bit of a shambles both on and off the pitch, and so those responsible have been held accountable.

Shows exactly why the one person who cannot be sacked should never be the one overseeing the day-to-day sporting operations. Putting the infrastructure Levy has built to the side, in footballing terms we've been a disaster for a long time, and yet we see the same shambolic patterns of dysfunction playing out year after year after year.

Nothing will ever change at this club until the Lewises step in and relieve Levy of any responsibility over footballing operations, if not remove him from the board altogether. Everything else is just noise.

The club needs to be sold but removing Levy from his position will be an immediate fix. Look no further than Everton what years of horrible decisions will do to you. They will very likely be relegated. That could be us in a few years.

 

[g_harry]

Well said.

If anyone is interested in how to run a club properly…

Yes and one of the main people behind that is Paul Barber a spurs fan who once was on the Spurs board.

 

[BoringOldFan]

Yes and one of the main people behind that is Paul Barber a spurs fan who once was on the Spurs board.

Indeed, as I posted in the Manager thread. Here’s what I wrote:

”I watched the BT interview with Paul Barber, chief exec (ex THFC) at Brighton. He was asked about succession planning. He said he is constantly looking at 20-25 people on and off the field and looking at who can fill that role if it becomes vacant.

The first question is “who is in the building?” An example he gave is when they sold Bissouma, they already had Caicedo ‘in the building’. He said that you are at your weakest in a negotiation when the selling club knows you’ve just taken in tens of millions from selling a player.

de Zerbi was identified as a potential successor well before Potter left. Brighton knew all about him and had been following him for some time. So it was a relatively smooth process to bring him in without disrupting the club too much.

When asked how he sees his job, Barber said “To make it as easy as possible for our players to win football matches”. By which he meant by taking care of all the stuff that de Zerbi doesn’t need to do like the admin, travel, other arrangements, so he can focus on preparing the team. Can you imagine that happening with Day-To-Day Dan?

You see. It can be done. Just not by Levy. In the same way our players and managers win trophies, but not with us, our executive staff can run a club well - but not ours.”

 

[Whazam]

Bayern have just reportedly sacked Kahn and Salihamidzic moments after winning the league.

This is what a properly-run club looks like -- by Bayern's lofty standards this season was a bit of a shambles both on and off the pitch, and so those responsible have been held accountable.

I don't get it. How is this evidence of a well-run club? Bayern is without a doubt a club that is generally run very well, but isn't this situation and the last couple of months proof that even such a stable club isn't always perfectly run?

Now the people who put Tuchel in charge are gone, which adds a lot of uncertainty regarding his position. And who put Kahn and Salihamidzic in charge and then sacked them? Why aren't they responsible? It looks really chaotic from my perspective.

I guess I'm missing something crucial here, please enlighten me!

 

[DiVaio]

Bayern have just reportedly sacked Kahn and Salihamidzic moments after winning the league.

This is what a properly-run club looks like -- by Bayern's lofty standards this season was a bit of a shambles both on and off the pitch, and so those responsible have been held accountable.

Shows exactly why the one person who cannot be sacked should never be the one overseeing the day-to-day sporting operations. Putting the infrastructure Levy has built to the side, in footballing terms we've been a disaster for a long time, and yet we see the same shambolic patterns of dysfunction playing out year after year after year.

Nothing will ever change at this club until the Lewises step in and relieve Levy of any responsibility over footballing operations, if not remove him from the board altogether. Everything else is just noise.

Daniel Levy's equivalent of Bayern is Herbert Hainer - he hasn't been sacked, is still their president and is overseeing their day-to-day sporting operations.
Nagelsmann/Conte and Salihamidzic/Paratici were sacked or left, Kahn was sacked and Munn will be his equivalent at Spurs

 

[JayB]

I don't get it. How is this evidence of a well-run club? Bayern is without a doubt a club that is generally run very well, but isn't this situation and the last couple of months proof that even such a stable club isn't always perfectly run?

Now the people who put Tuchel in charge are gone, which adds a lot of uncertainty regarding his position. And who put Kahn and Salihamidzic in charge and then sacked them? Why aren't they responsible? It looks really chaotic from my perspective.

I guess I'm missing something crucial here, please enlighten me!

What you're missing is that the individuals responsible for the chaotic mess over the past few months have been held accountable. Notwithstanding the fact that they won the league! Instead of allowing their standards to slip, they acted swiftly to correct the mistakes.

At Spurs, on the other hand, the individual responsible for the footballing failures has been allowed to make the same mistakes over and over and over and over again, with no indication whatsoever that it has undermined his position or that anything will ever change.

 

[BoringOldFan]

The reality is - Tottenham Hotspur is a loss making business and has been since the 2019/20 season (at least until this year's accounts come out). Covid and the timing of it as we moved into the new stadium are a major factor in that, and I actually think his financial prudence is part of the reason we didn't have to start asset stripping and selling off Kane or Son during the height of the pandemic as some other clubs had to - but right now we are in a mess in the footballing side and I can't even praise his business acumen. We are losing money. And if he is to consider the club as a business first and foremost, then he is failing in his primary task, let alone the one the fans want to see.

If Levy had sold the club or found a way to hand the reigns over to somebody else in 2017 when we left WHL then I'd have fully supported a statue of him outside the ground. People are consumed by blind hatred and want to rewrite history without context or focus on very specific transfer failures - but the job Levy did in the first 15 years to continually rebuild and improve the side on a limited budget and establish us as part of the "big six" was truly outstanding and there was quite simply not a better chairman that could have taken us on the journey he did that didn't own an oilfield. Sadly, he has completely tarnished his legacy since then - practically every major decision he has got badly wrong and the club has notably regressed across every metric you can think of in the last few years.

He's 61 now - not quite pension age but he's older than all but two PL managers (Hodgson and Allardyce who are both caretakers). Maybe he's not quite as sharp as he used to be? Players and managers both have sell-by dates, why not chairmen as well? It doesn't mean the work in the early years was no good, but something has clearly been going wrong in the last seven years.

THFC may be ‘making a loss’ according to the accounts, but it is not ‘losing money’ in the strictest sense. Take this year’s numbers. A loss of £50 million. But look further up the profit and loss and you see depreciation of £72 million. Which is a non-cash item, so doesn’t actually reduce the amount of money in the bank account.

And why so much depreciation? A look at the relevant note shows that the major part of it is due to writing down the cost of property, namely the training ground and stadium. So the very things that were constructed to bring in more revenue to enable us to compete financially are resulting in a loss on the bottom line!

Note: Depreciation on infrastructure assets such as these are added back when it comes to calculating losses for FFP purposes, so at least our status is not affected by those regulations.

 

[JayB]

Daniel Levy's equivalent of Bayern is Herbert Hainer - he hasn't been sacked, is still their president and is overseeing their day-to-day sporting operations.
Nagelsmann/Conte and Salihamidzic/Paratici were sacked or left, Kahn was sacked and Munn will be his equivalent at Spurs

Any corporate entity will have both officers and directors. The officers carry out the day-to-day functions and the directors, in theory, hold the officers accountable. Generally speaking, officers are employees of the org, whereas directors are non-employee fiduciaries.

While Levy and Hainer may both nominally be directors, in actuality their roles are distinct in that Levy has taken on the responsibility for running the day-to-day operations. In other words, he's effectively acting as both as chairman of the board and as de facto CEO.

Because he's running things from a position on the board, and as the second-largest stakeholder in the organization, he cannot be held accountable as an employee would be. Only a consortium representing a majority of shares could dislodge him from his position. So he remains, making the same mistakes over and over, and we have to witness a Groundhog's Day of dysfunction.

What we need is a normal corporate structure wherein the individuals responsible for operations are capable of being held accountable for their failures -- just as Bayern have done. It's categorically not what we currently have in place.

 

[beats1]

Want Levy out or to change, cancel your membership, simple. Nothing will send more shockwaves to levy than that

 

[g_harry]

Want Levy out or to change, cancel your membership, simple. Nothing will send more shockwaves to levy than that

Not renewing either, hopefully enough people make themselves heard.
Appreciate it is a little harder for those with season tickets.

 

[agrdavidsfan]

When the clubs servers collapse due to the influx he might have had no choice.

To be fair I’m sure it was reported levy does actually check those emails to get the feeling of the fans?

 

[agrdavidsfan]

As I put in the other thread been at a football presentation tonight and I wish we could just get Paul Barber back