The ousting of Daniel (COYS)
- Thread starter ChappersES
- Start date
All very fair points. And it’s my attitude when I go to games myself. Always join in whenever there’s Levy/Enic out chants.
easley91
Well-Known Member
- Jan 27, 2011
- 19,112
- 54,866
Genuine question and I don't want people coming at me labelling me a Levy lover or defender when I ask this because I do want him gone but..
How many of the outgoings that didn't happen were due to the players saying no to the club's we agreed with? How many clubs were waiting for replacements or to do their business before coming in for our player?
I get Levy is the top man so he'll get the flak even if/when it isn't warranted, but if the other parties involved in negotiations don't do their bit what do you want him to do exactly?
From what I gather we had accepted offers for Sanchez, Hojbjerg and Ndombele at the very least whilst offering Dier to anyone and everyone.
Can't shift players if they don't want to go can you? You can rip up contracts or come to a mutual agreement, sure. Which I expect for Lloris and Dier at the very least. But that was never going to happen until all other avenues were gone.
How many of the outgoings that didn't happen were due to the players saying no to the club's we agreed with? How many clubs were waiting for replacements or to do their business before coming in for our player?
I get Levy is the top man so he'll get the flak even if/when it isn't warranted, but if the other parties involved in negotiations don't do their bit what do you want him to do exactly?
From what I gather we had accepted offers for Sanchez, Hojbjerg and Ndombele at the very least whilst offering Dier to anyone and everyone.
Can't shift players if they don't want to go can you? You can rip up contracts or come to a mutual agreement, sure. Which I expect for Lloris and Dier at the very least. But that was never going to happen until all other avenues were gone.
Original # 10
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- Aug 13, 2008
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Stumbled across this particular thread. Stark similarities to an awful lot of random IMO needless 'woke style' debates that I find myself in so much these days. All these discussions do is make me question everything I've lived/believed/acted on previously and ultimately as I stand here middle aged just add an absolute magnitude of potential angst energy into my already chaotic mental health environment.
The ousting of Daniel. Such a flippant, extreme, totalistic statement in its entirety. Far too many aspects of the current world completely deep dive into every single aspect or every single subject and in doing so completely dilute the reality of caveats that actually exists within these realms.
What is the demographic that represents this sensationalist viewpoint? Is it varied? is it 20 and under, 30 and under etc etc
I'm 40. I've watched ENIC run the ship since I was an impressionable, troubled, larger than life 20 year old.
I was at high school during the mid 90's when we were utter shit. having to run the daily gauntlet of United and Arsenal royalty whilst placing side bets with West Ham and Villa fans as to who would finish higher in the league. Dreaming of coming 7th in the league and entry to the intertoto and the ilk of anything European worth at least trying to claim grandeur.
2001 i started hitting the ground live and hard. My Arsenal majority supported close family would obviously not take me anyhwere near N17, my uncle happily took me to Fulham for a number of years when they too were shit and in the lower depths of the leagues.
We got to a cup final. I was at uni and we were favourites. I was from a rough area but I took a squad of 20-30 likeminded heads to my uni bar to watch us no doubt win the cup. We lost to Blackburn despite bossing most of the game. This was fine as we'd won the cup 2 years prior and we'd smashed chelsea in the semis.
A couple of up and down years and we gave Arnesen and Santini the gig. Very highly respected in the global game. Santini got shook and by default BMG took the helm. 2005 circa. That is when my euphoric journey with Spurs started.
Young talent like Dawson, Huddlestone, Lennon, JJ, Defoe, Carrick et all played with a freedom that I hadnt seen before. Huge long runs across multiple competitions with limited losses got the momentum and belief going. For example 3 defeats in 21 whilst playing some great football.
Head to head with the previously untouchable neighbors only to be robbed of a top 4 spot by moody mince. My Arsenal supporting old man finally actually taking notice of me and the team i supported.
European qualification by merit, not scrambling down the fair play league to see if we qualified that way.
2006 and we're playing arguably the best side in europe if not the world. We haven't beaten them home or away forever even when they were utter shite for many of those years. We win 2-1. I'll never forget that day. We again establish ourself now as legitimate top 5/6 royalty.
This is where we struggle IMO and its no fault of anyone and its actually in the quest for better. We start the season slower than expected as expectations have now increased. BMJ the beloved gets sacked for a guaranteed success merchant in Ramos. We go on to win a cup in awesome fashion, but we lose identity and are awful in the league. Blinded and clouded by the victim chapter of new success.
We go back to perceived basics in Arry yet not only does he save us from relegation but he has us playing a beautiful brand of simple pressure forward thing football. UCL qualification beyond our wildest dreams and even brief sightings of serious trophy challenges.
Victim chapter of new success sees england calling and heads get turned. Arry gone but we're now getting established as a really top english side again. the ILK of manager applying for the job back this. AVB very highly regarded lucks out with Bale but must take some kudos for coaching him that season. Not quite top 4 but probably even more eyes on us due to Bale.
A season of misfortune follows. Money reinvested by ENIC but not much works out, a feverish ambitious internal lad takes the helm and sees us home but all is not bliss.
I remember at that time all I wanted was to appoint someone for 5 years who had a plan and an identity. In came Poch. For the first time since pre ENIC the phone chat groups were all alligned again. Poch will do. And god did he do. Amazing times, Levy will admit even he lucked out at the leveks he tooks us to. No more Spursy. Ridiculous records of not beating the top sides home or away mainly dealt with. Not just sneaking into the top 4 but actively challenging for titles. 86 points when second to Conte's no european football Chelsea, would have won the league 11 times previously. Timing and luck was not on our side.
Insane runs in the UCL all the way to the final one season. Events I could only dream about in the mid 90's when I was trying to predict the last 10 games results hoping we'd pip Boro, Sheff Wed or Villa to 7th and the hop of fair play or intertoto.
Huge financial backing the season after on GLC and Ndom but that off the back off a very strange 18 months of hardly buying anyone. Another chapter of new success.
The heartbreaking rejection of Poch would follow. Proud to say I cried hard. Poch made me so proud to be a Spurs fan and it was an easy sell to my new born daughter at the time that supporting Spurs Spurs was cool.
Jose and then Conte would follow. Another chapter of new success. I can understand the appointments. Despite the obvious incremental rise in our fortunes over the previous 15 years or so, all i heard was trophy this and trophy that. A close Liverpool fan pal had the same sort of pth when Klopp took over and he summed it up perfectly that there are many different ways to measure success other than trophies. However the moment that did win something he soon forgot that comment and jumped on the Spurs no trophy hate.
We cannot be naive enough to think we could have even been able to appoint the likes of Jose and Conte up to pre Poch in reality. That to me is a measure of how far we grew. However it also was at the detriment of our identity, style, ethichs and way of life. Ultimately it soon went south.
So to 2023 and we get to a point where I feel is similar the period prior to the Poch appointment especially when Harry is off and a new era is on the horizon. Get someone in with a project mentality, with an identity and give him as long as he wants. Ange, mark my words is an absolute gift from the gods for us. Again all the message groups are aligned and we should all be massively optimistic.
So, now the context is set, back to the null hypothesis. The ousting of Daniel. He's an accountant and a Spurs fan through and through. I too have both in common with the guy. As a default I will always promote incremental growth. The state backed, rule bending quick fix doesnt sit well with me but that said you deal with the cards you are dealt and hindsight never really loses.
I try and take a macro stance on things.
Are we better now than what we were in 2001? Fuck me its chalk and cheese. We are established top 6 and have been in the UCL multiple times now.
Could we have really gone on under Poch when not buying anyone really for a year or more? Absolutely but it was new territory for all involved. Poch himself. Growth pains? Back to CHAPTER OF NEW SUCCESS.
Painful rebuild? Again the statement was easier than the actual process. We needed a clear strategy on what this actually was but it was new territory. Stick or twist.
Jose and Conte? This is just pure Spursy and terrible fits. They walked around like they were doing us a favor and I find it karma that we blighted their CV's lol
Ange and post Harry?
This is first time since season 2 of Poch when we pressed like madmen that I've been this excited. Ange is a generational talent mark my words. Emotionally so intelligent. He is creating an atmosphere from the moment the player steps out of their 100k car, to the canteen, to training, to match day that will give them the best chance of unified success. Already we are seeing the benefits.
I truly believe the next 3-5 years or forever how long Ange sticks around are going to be so good. I would like to think Ange was Levy's first pick this season or at the very least on the actual shortlist.
He's got a lot wrong, but he's got a lot right and you cannot argue that both on and off the pitch we are chalk and cheese to where we were in 2001.
I appreciate different age groups will have different views based on their journeys.
The only thing that is missing is the odd trophy here and there but again i stress you've got to be in it to win it and pre ENIC for about a decade anyway after the successful 80's and 91 obvs, we were nowhere near it.
stick the kettle on and thank you for your time.
The ousting of Daniel. Such a flippant, extreme, totalistic statement in its entirety. Far too many aspects of the current world completely deep dive into every single aspect or every single subject and in doing so completely dilute the reality of caveats that actually exists within these realms.
What is the demographic that represents this sensationalist viewpoint? Is it varied? is it 20 and under, 30 and under etc etc
I'm 40. I've watched ENIC run the ship since I was an impressionable, troubled, larger than life 20 year old.
I was at high school during the mid 90's when we were utter shit. having to run the daily gauntlet of United and Arsenal royalty whilst placing side bets with West Ham and Villa fans as to who would finish higher in the league. Dreaming of coming 7th in the league and entry to the intertoto and the ilk of anything European worth at least trying to claim grandeur.
2001 i started hitting the ground live and hard. My Arsenal majority supported close family would obviously not take me anyhwere near N17, my uncle happily took me to Fulham for a number of years when they too were shit and in the lower depths of the leagues.
We got to a cup final. I was at uni and we were favourites. I was from a rough area but I took a squad of 20-30 likeminded heads to my uni bar to watch us no doubt win the cup. We lost to Blackburn despite bossing most of the game. This was fine as we'd won the cup 2 years prior and we'd smashed chelsea in the semis.
A couple of up and down years and we gave Arnesen and Santini the gig. Very highly respected in the global game. Santini got shook and by default BMG took the helm. 2005 circa. That is when my euphoric journey with Spurs started.
Young talent like Dawson, Huddlestone, Lennon, JJ, Defoe, Carrick et all played with a freedom that I hadnt seen before. Huge long runs across multiple competitions with limited losses got the momentum and belief going. For example 3 defeats in 21 whilst playing some great football.
Head to head with the previously untouchable neighbors only to be robbed of a top 4 spot by moody mince. My Arsenal supporting old man finally actually taking notice of me and the team i supported.
European qualification by merit, not scrambling down the fair play league to see if we qualified that way.
2006 and we're playing arguably the best side in europe if not the world. We haven't beaten them home or away forever even when they were utter shite for many of those years. We win 2-1. I'll never forget that day. We again establish ourself now as legitimate top 5/6 royalty.
This is where we struggle IMO and its no fault of anyone and its actually in the quest for better. We start the season slower than expected as expectations have now increased. BMJ the beloved gets sacked for a guaranteed success merchant in Ramos. We go on to win a cup in awesome fashion, but we lose identity and are awful in the league. Blinded and clouded by the victim chapter of new success.
We go back to perceived basics in Arry yet not only does he save us from relegation but he has us playing a beautiful brand of simple pressure forward thing football. UCL qualification beyond our wildest dreams and even brief sightings of serious trophy challenges.
Victim chapter of new success sees england calling and heads get turned. Arry gone but we're now getting established as a really top english side again. the ILK of manager applying for the job back this. AVB very highly regarded lucks out with Bale but must take some kudos for coaching him that season. Not quite top 4 but probably even more eyes on us due to Bale.
A season of misfortune follows. Money reinvested by ENIC but not much works out, a feverish ambitious internal lad takes the helm and sees us home but all is not bliss.
I remember at that time all I wanted was to appoint someone for 5 years who had a plan and an identity. In came Poch. For the first time since pre ENIC the phone chat groups were all alligned again. Poch will do. And god did he do. Amazing times, Levy will admit even he lucked out at the leveks he tooks us to. No more Spursy. Ridiculous records of not beating the top sides home or away mainly dealt with. Not just sneaking into the top 4 but actively challenging for titles. 86 points when second to Conte's no european football Chelsea, would have won the league 11 times previously. Timing and luck was not on our side.
Insane runs in the UCL all the way to the final one season. Events I could only dream about in the mid 90's when I was trying to predict the last 10 games results hoping we'd pip Boro, Sheff Wed or Villa to 7th and the hop of fair play or intertoto.
Huge financial backing the season after on GLC and Ndom but that off the back off a very strange 18 months of hardly buying anyone. Another chapter of new success.
The heartbreaking rejection of Poch would follow. Proud to say I cried hard. Poch made me so proud to be a Spurs fan and it was an easy sell to my new born daughter at the time that supporting Spurs Spurs was cool.
Jose and then Conte would follow. Another chapter of new success. I can understand the appointments. Despite the obvious incremental rise in our fortunes over the previous 15 years or so, all i heard was trophy this and trophy that. A close Liverpool fan pal had the same sort of pth when Klopp took over and he summed it up perfectly that there are many different ways to measure success other than trophies. However the moment that did win something he soon forgot that comment and jumped on the Spurs no trophy hate.
We cannot be naive enough to think we could have even been able to appoint the likes of Jose and Conte up to pre Poch in reality. That to me is a measure of how far we grew. However it also was at the detriment of our identity, style, ethichs and way of life. Ultimately it soon went south.
So to 2023 and we get to a point where I feel is similar the period prior to the Poch appointment especially when Harry is off and a new era is on the horizon. Get someone in with a project mentality, with an identity and give him as long as he wants. Ange, mark my words is an absolute gift from the gods for us. Again all the message groups are aligned and we should all be massively optimistic.
So, now the context is set, back to the null hypothesis. The ousting of Daniel. He's an accountant and a Spurs fan through and through. I too have both in common with the guy. As a default I will always promote incremental growth. The state backed, rule bending quick fix doesnt sit well with me but that said you deal with the cards you are dealt and hindsight never really loses.
I try and take a macro stance on things.
Are we better now than what we were in 2001? Fuck me its chalk and cheese. We are established top 6 and have been in the UCL multiple times now.
Could we have really gone on under Poch when not buying anyone really for a year or more? Absolutely but it was new territory for all involved. Poch himself. Growth pains? Back to CHAPTER OF NEW SUCCESS.
Painful rebuild? Again the statement was easier than the actual process. We needed a clear strategy on what this actually was but it was new territory. Stick or twist.
Jose and Conte? This is just pure Spursy and terrible fits. They walked around like they were doing us a favor and I find it karma that we blighted their CV's lol
Ange and post Harry?
This is first time since season 2 of Poch when we pressed like madmen that I've been this excited. Ange is a generational talent mark my words. Emotionally so intelligent. He is creating an atmosphere from the moment the player steps out of their 100k car, to the canteen, to training, to match day that will give them the best chance of unified success. Already we are seeing the benefits.
I truly believe the next 3-5 years or forever how long Ange sticks around are going to be so good. I would like to think Ange was Levy's first pick this season or at the very least on the actual shortlist.
He's got a lot wrong, but he's got a lot right and you cannot argue that both on and off the pitch we are chalk and cheese to where we were in 2001.
I appreciate different age groups will have different views based on their journeys.
The only thing that is missing is the odd trophy here and there but again i stress you've got to be in it to win it and pre ENIC for about a decade anyway after the successful 80's and 91 obvs, we were nowhere near it.
stick the kettle on and thank you for your time.
Original # 10
Well-Known Member
- Aug 13, 2008
- 1,013
- 1,609
Care to expand. We have an exceptional coach who will coach the fuck out of our players to a level we have not seen before.
WiganSpur
Well-Known Member
- Aug 31, 2012
- 16,026
- 32,758
Since the stadium build we've spent an average of £90m net on players. In the same 5 year period Arsenal's spend averages out to £111m, pretty much 25% more than us. We've been in the CL twice during that period and they've been in it once.
13VanDerBale13
Well-Known Member
- Jul 12, 2011
- 14,446
- 34,020
Sold Kane & this was the best he could serve us with.
Defending this window makes you just as foolish & unambitious as him.
Defending this window makes you just as foolish & unambitious as him.
Original # 10
Well-Known Member
- Aug 13, 2008
- 1,013
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Vicario
Porro Romero VDV Udogie
Bissouma Bentancur
Kulusevski Maddison Son
Richarlison
Ample depth in the forward 6. The only thing I would have liked would have been an upgrade at CB but if we couldnt sell Dave or Dier then so be it. I'd llike to see us bed in Dorrington if we can somehow.
Porro Romero VDV Udogie
Bissouma Bentancur
Kulusevski Maddison Son
Richarlison
Ample depth in the forward 6. The only thing I would have liked would have been an upgrade at CB but if we couldnt sell Dave or Dier then so be it. I'd llike to see us bed in Dorrington if we can somehow.
Original # 10
Well-Known Member
- Aug 13, 2008
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We've got the best manager we've had since Poch.
We have an incredibly exciting young crop of talent
James Maddison
Do people only wake up to moan?
Original # 10
Well-Known Member
- Aug 13, 2008
- 1,013
- 1,609
For the next 15 minutes I challenge everybody to highlight the positives................ Its like they dont exist
cunn1ngstunt
Well-Known Member
- Aug 12, 2011
- 124
- 305
I’d love to know what project Kane was ? The clubs hierarchy supposedly knew this was inevitable to lose him as per Anges own mouth. Yet we scratched around on deadline day to bring in one player who was not a replacement for Kane regardless of his potential in his different role. The club clearly had no foresight or indeed endeavour after they genuinely knew the situation with Kane, and to address the repercussions. We always had Kane to gloss over levy’s lack of ambition or understanding of football. Now we don’t and levy is laid bare for the money driven puppet who makes claims to be a fan. We are a vehicle for this man’s selfish ambition and i for one have woken up. We will not progress or win anything by the hand of levy. Should we win a trophy under his tenure it would be despite of him.
Original # 10
Well-Known Member
- Aug 13, 2008
- 1,013
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Trust Ange ffs
Original # 10
Well-Known Member
- Aug 13, 2008
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Project Kane would obviously be the fallacy of a certain demographic of fan group.
The reality would be to ask Ange what will we look like post harry. You cant replace him like for like so you have to approach things differently.
Pace, interchanging, aggressive forward play from any combination of players that he's happy to coach
why the doom?
Original # 10
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- Aug 13, 2008
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The fact someone actually disliked this request says a lot. Sad times
jurgen
Busy ****
- Jul 5, 2008
- 6,751
- 17,353
Who doesn’t trust Ange?
Don’t trust Verne Troyer to not throw Ange under the bus when the going gets tough.
0-Tibsy-0
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- Aug 13, 2012
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