The ousting of Daniel (COYS)

[HodisGawd]

I agree, some of those matches we should have won. The FA Cup semi final v Portsmouth stands out. But in a lot of those cases we lost to teams who would expect to beat us because they were better because they had better squads. For instance the league cup finals v Chelsea and Man C, the Champions League final v Liverpool. And at other times we arguably took our eye off the ball because of the relentless focus on finishing in the top four.

I think most balanced posters accept that overall Levy has done a good job. And if the project now all comes to fruition you would have to say he has done in an excellent job over the long term. But what I often notice in threads all over this site is people overcompensating. So you have posters saying we should be protesting to get Levy out when we’re in a rough patch but then as soon as things are going well we have posters saying he is virtually faultless. There’s always these massive pendulum swings.

Surely the right answer is that he’s made plenty of individual mistakes and potentially we could have won a couple more trophies and even a league title or two if he had been slightly less cautious at times. But overall, and especially over the long term, he has done well and potentially we are moving to a new phase where his long term strategy is going to pay off big time.

You can't run a football club for 20+ years and not make mistakes, that is something I think a lot of people fail to get. OF COURSE he's made mistakes, lots of them, but overall he's been hugely positive for the club. No one is suggesting he's been perfect.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

If you have not seen the interview from Johan Lange - its a good watch:


And, I know we have a DOF thread - but he makes a very specific point that I think is worth mentioning in here.

"Firstly and very importantly we arrived into the January market completely aligned, the chairman, Ange, Scott [Munn] and myself."

***

"we are completely aligned as a club and how we want to build the squad over the coming years, which is hugely important, but this is not just Ange and myself, this is a club strategy, this is a club alignment, and Ange and I have been brought in in different roles to execute this."


I don't think we have simply lucked into this alignment - I think Levy has finally seen his role as Chairman is not to micromanage, but rather to set the tone for the club - and then let people do their jobs. He has gotten people - specifically Munn, but also Ange and Lange, who he trusts - and to be fair, those gentlemen have earned Levy's trust.

Ange might have been the most important hire - but they all fit nicely into the puzzle - and Levy made that happen.

Perhaps, this time, lessons have truly been learned.

 

[Trix]

This time it is different.

Under Poch and Redknapp we did well, but we didn't have a powerhouse stadium built to print money behind them. Now we have. Levy has created the training ground, world-class stadium and has now been able to bring the best people in behind the scenes to manage how the money is spent on the first team. Now we can spend, just as other clubs are beginning to struggle.

That doesn't guarantee trophies, nothing does, but as long as we keep making good decisions in terms of playing staff and get a bit of luck we're going to have as good a chance as anyone. Man City, we're coming for you.

Having beaten Bayern and Barcelona to transfers this window says something. Players and their advisors know we're a club on the up.

That still remains to be seen.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

If you have not seen the interview from Johan Lange - its a good watch:


And, I know we have a DOF thread - but he makes a very specific point that I think is worth mentioning in here.

"Firstly and very importantly we arrived into the January market completely aligned, the chairman, Ange, Scott [Munn] and myself."

***

"we are completely aligned as a club and how we want to build the squad over the coming years, which is hugely important, but this is not just Ange and myself, this is a club strategy, this is a club alignment, and Ange and I have been brought in in different roles to execute this."


I don't think we have simply lucked into this alignment - I think Levy has finally seen his role as Chairman is not to micromanage, but rather to set the tone for the club - and then let people do their jobs. He has gotten people - specifically Munn, but also Ange and Lange, who he trusts - and to be fair, those gentlemen have earned Levy's trust.

Ange might have been the most important hire - but they all fit nicely into the puzzle - and Levy made that happen.

Perhaps, this time, lessons have truly been learned.

Completely agree, it’s take about 25 years but things are now falling into place we just had to be patient after all a Qtr of a century on and we have a bright present and future now.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

That still remains to be seen.

The previous 3-4 windows are strong evidence that it is being seen so to speak.

 

[McFlash]

The previous 3-4 windows are strong evidence that it is being seen so to speak.

What's also telling, to me at least, is that Levy seems to have recognised the work Paratici was putting in and the good job he was doing.
So much so that he's kept him in the shadows when even a certain section of our fans were calling him to "sack that criminal".
(More blind rage aimed at Levy, just for the sake of raging at him).

It may be a little early to judge Lange and even Munn yet but the signs are certainly good that they are following the blueprint that Paratici had set out.

If feels like we finally have a long term vision as a club, along with the financial ability to back it up.

 

[mil1lion]

I'm sure this was all part of the plan but of course a stadium build takes a long time. It certainly took longer than expected and there have been errors along the way. It does feel kind of a better late than never scenario for Levy. The most important thing is that he seems to have good football people around him now to make the right decisions on that end. No doubt prior to this season there was fair argument to oust him. However he has redeemed himself at least for now. The stadium being built and opened a couple of years was always going to put us in a great position financially. It was just a question of whether that revenue would be used correctly. We don't want to spend the money like Utd have done.

 

[southlondonyiddo]

I noticed this graphic as part of the Klopp love in. We've had the 3rd best record in the league during Klopps reign. Things really haven't been that bad under Levy.
View attachment 137440

Anyone would have thought we’d had one of the greatest strikers since Jimmy Greaves (who cost us nothing) playing for us

Infact Levy has done such a great job with our football team that, one of our own, had enough and fucked off!

Good to see this thread pop up again. Have we won the league yet or have I missed something

To dare is to do lol

 

[DogsOfWar]

Anyone would have thought we’d had one of the greatest strikers since Jimmy Greaves (who cost us nothing) playing for us

Infact Levy has done such a great job with our football team that, one of our own, had enough and fucked off!

Good to see this thread pop up again. Have we won the league yet or have I missed something

To dare is to do lol

We've been around for 140 years or so and only won it twice so I have never had much expectation that we would.
The only real criticism that stands up against Levy is putting league position above winning the minor cups (FA and League) but that seems to be modern football.

 

[YB123]

We've been around for 140 years or so and only won it twice so I have never had much expectation that we would.
The only real criticism that stands up against Levy is putting league position above winning the minor cups (FA and League) but that seems to be modern football.

jesus christ....

 

[IfiHadTheWings]

Anyone would have thought we’d had one of the greatest strikers since Jimmy Greaves (who cost us nothing) playing for us

Infact Levy has done such a great job with our football team that, one of our own, had enough and fucked off!

Good to see this thread pop up again. Have we won the league yet or have I missed something

To dare is to do lol

I take it you wasn't coming in here to offer him early birthday wishes.

 

[PaulM]

Completely agree, it’s take about 25 years but things are now falling into place we just had to be patient after all a Qtr of a century on and we have a bright present and future now.

Think that's a bit unfair. He inherited a club that hadn't finished top 6 in over 10 years. Under Levy's chairmanship, we've finished top 6 in something like 15 out of the last 18 seasons, we've competed in the Champions League 6 times, we've gotten to Champions League final, we've challenged seriously for the league on 2 occasions.

From a consistency point of view, Levy's tenure has brought us the best run of league finishes over a sustained period in our history. Throw in the infrastructure and he's also moved the club to a different level off the pitch.

Obviously, trophies are the big miss and it's a massive one (not that we were ever prolific in that regard anyway). It'll always be a stick to beat him with but if you look at the rest, it's hard to argue that he hasn't done a great job in the context of our history and in an era where 3 clubs have won the lottery.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Think that's a bit unfair. He inherited a club that hadn't finished top 6 in over 10 years. Under Levy's chairmanship, we've finished top 6 in something like 15 out of the last 18 seasons, we've competed in the Champions League 6 times, we've gotten to Champions League final, we've challenged seriously for the league on 2 occasions.

From a consistency point of view, Levy's tenure has brought us the best run of league finishes over a sustained period in our history. Throw in the infrastructure and he's also moved the club to a different level off the pitch.

Obviously, trophies are the big miss and it's a massive one (not that we were ever prolific in that regard anyway). It'll always be a stick to beat him with but if you look at the rest, it's hard to argue that he hasn't done a great job in the context of our history and in an era where 3 clubs have won the lottery.

All good points but I didn't not acknowledge those points, my point was simply that it has taken 25 years to get to this point where we have a clear and aligned plan and vision for the football side from top to bottom, regardless of improved league finishes etc we've not had that set-up at all/ever whilst Levy has been in charge and Levy continued to meddle and be too involved which caused us a lot of slow starts or missed opportunities, Levy has also sacked managers before cup finals and not backed managers at times they needed it to kick on.

The stadium is a separate point and aside from the big to move to the Olympic Stadium, Levy did all he could to get us a new stadium financed and built as soon as he could and now we are finally in a financial position to compete in a fair way right at the top, but I won't use that as a stick to beat him just the football set-up and decisions which at times have been poor and have held us back.

We now have the below positions all aligned in a good football operating structure.
Levy -> Munn -> Lange -> Ange

 

[Yantino]

Anyone would have thought we’d had one of the greatest strikers since Jimmy Greaves (who cost us nothing) playing for us

Infact Levy has done such a great job with our football team that, one of our own, had enough and fucked off!

Good to see this thread pop up again. Have we won the league yet or have I missed something

To dare is to do lol

Not disagreeing, but is it also not asking too much for people to also recognise and acknowledge the changes made to our recruitment over the last 12-18 months? we are clearly in a really healthy place right now. Granted, there have been and will continue to be mistakes made but credit needs to be given for where we now find ourselves. It's a massive turnaround and it's ridiculous to suggest anything else IMO.

 

[DogsOfWar]

jesus christ....

There are very few top level measures in measuring the success of a football club, off the top of my head it would be:

Financial Growth
Infrastructure
Average league position or win ratio
Number of Trophies

3 of those have improved significantly in Levy's reign.

Personally, I would rather watch us winning cups and playing at the old WHL for £25.
Unfortunately, that business model would slowly see us sinking like a stone so whilst I don't particular like the modern game I can accept it is what needs to be done by a competent Chairman of a football club.

Looking at individual decisions that you dislike is pointless. You have to judge the decisions based on their effect on the club over a long time and what it leads to.
For example the graphic I posted earlier shows during Klopp's reign we have the 3rd best win rate in the Premiership. This includes the appointments of Mourinho/Conte/the other bloke so although we were all kicking off about those 3 clowns the overall measure (games won) was good as it includes good decisions like Poch and Ange.

 

[dontcallme]

I remember Levy hiring Hoddle and seeing the club’s issues went deeper than the manager. On firing Hoddle we went almost a full season with a caretaker manager while he researched the club overhaul.

We hired Arnesen as the main man to run the footballing side. He gutted out the club and progress was made, he then left. I’ll always believe this hit Levy hard as he’d put so much responsibility onto Arnesen.

Since then he’s struggled to hire the right guys, give them the freedom to do their job and get everyone pulling in the right direction.

I believe we do currently have a great setup. There’s some faith that this can continue for a while. But we have to wait and see.

 

[superted4]

All good points but I didn't not acknowledge those points, my point was simply that it has taken 25 years to get to this point where we have a clear and aligned plan and vision for the football side from top to bottom, regardless of improved league finishes etc we've not had that set-up at all/ever whilst Levy has been in charge and Levy continued to meddle and be too involved which caused us a lot of slow starts or missed opportunities, Levy has also sacked managers before cup finals and not backed managers at times they needed it to kick on.

The stadium is a separate point and aside from the big to move to the Olympic Stadium, Levy did all he could to get us a new stadium financed and built as soon as he could and now we are finally in a financial position to compete in a fair way right at the top, but I won't use that as a stick to beat him just the football set-up and decisions which at times have been poor and have held us back.

We now have the below positions all aligned in a good football operating structure.
Levy -> Munn -> Lange -> Ange

This is my biggest gripe! especially when in recent years there's been a huge amount emphasis on the 'tottenham way'

Everything else Levy you've acknowledged. Levy didnt lose us those many finals, semi's or 2 league challenges, but having a clear plan from the first couple of years is the biggest failure and the reason we all support spurs, the football!

 

[McFlash]

I remember Levy hiring Hoddle and seeing the club’s issues went deeper than the manager. On firing Hoddle we went almost a full season with a caretaker manager while he researched the club overhaul.

We hired Arnesen as the main man to run the footballing side. He gutted out the club and progress was made, he then left. I’ll always believe this hit Levy hard as he’d put so much responsibility onto Arnesen.

Since then he’s struggled to hire the right guys, give them the freedom to their job and get everyone pulling in the right direction.

I believe we do currently have a great setup. There’s some faith that this can continue for a while. But we have to wait and see.

Yeah, I think that Arnesen "betrayal" hit Levy a lot harder than most understood and led him to being a lot more closed in regards to trusting the people around him.
IIRC, Kelmsley was also a bit of a dick and a fair few of our board members seemed to be pulling in their own directions, even as recently as the past few managerial searches.

Paratici appears to have broken that down somewhat and seems to be a bit of a Pleat figure to Levy, someone who he trusts and will listen to.

 

[DogsOfWar]

I remember Levy hiring Hoddle and seeing the club’s issues went deeper than the manager. On firing Hoddle we went almost a full season with a caretaker manager while he researched the club overhaul.

We hired Arnesen as the main man to run the footballing side. He gutted out the club and progress was made, he then left. I’ll always believe this hit Levy hard as he’d put so much responsibility onto Arnesen.

Since then he’s struggled to hire the right guys, give them the freedom to their job and get everyone pulling in the right direction.

I believe we do currently have a great setup. There’s some faith that this can continue for a while. But we have to wait and see.

Even when it comes to 'hiring the right guy', assuming this list is correct from Wikipedia, he's not far off in relation to our history (especially post-war):

Frightening reading and goes to show our expectations may not always be aligned with our history (in terms of winning games rather than trophies).

 

[PaulM]

Even when it comes to 'hiring the right guy', assuming this list is correct from Wikipedia, he's not far off in relation to our history (especially post-war):

View attachment 137711

Frightening reading and goes to show our expectations may not always be aligned with our history (in terms of winning games rather than trophies).

Jesus...I never really take stats in isolation because there is often context that can skew them but even at that, the above is eye opening.

Conte with a higher win percentage than Ange (just), AVB in third and Harry/Bill Nic so low surprise me.