The realism of a full rebuild

[Trix]

I honestly didn't realise there were so many on here that just don't actually understand the game, and the reality of how things really work in team sports. It's actually quite alarming that some posters can spend hours every day talking about all things football on here, and yet just expect things to happen like they do on Fifa or football manager. I'm not talking about genuine criticism that is valid, I'm talking about writing a young kid off after 30 minutes of football in a new country, and not understanding how an entire rebuild isn't going to happen over night.

At the very start of the transfer window I made a detailed post regarding how the club was moving forward, how there were plans in place that the manager, DOF and chairman were firmly behind. It was about being patient because the club had a two window strategy in order to be ready to compete properly next season. January was about getting all our ducks in a row so that come the Summer things could progress to where we have needed them to be for years. Deadwood players off the wage bill and in the shop window elsewhere. Come the Summer it won't be about having to move players out first, or freeing up wages and we can just get on with preparing for the coming season.

Those of you that keep shouting about top 4, and missed opportunities really need to understand that was never the main aim. Of course we'd like it, and will be doing all we can to get there this season, but not at the expense of being optimum for 22-23. "Why didn't we get a RWB in January" well because the one we really want isn't available until the Summer. Traore was seen as a possibility, but only at the price we were willing to go to, and the fact he could cover other roles as well. We could have bought another RWB to get by, but we'd rather the one we really want, rather than a makeshift purchase that affects long term progression. This is the same for other positions and why those we brought in were done as they were. Bentacur was the only full purchase this window as we were sure of what we were getting. Kulusevki is only a loan and only becomes permanent if he does well(this needs to be remembered).

Criticism at times is valid for sure and last night for instance I can completely understand why there was a fair amount. It's worth pointing out though that the players that really struggled last night(and boy were they poor) are the positions we are actively looking to upgrade in the Summer and have been planning to from the off. RWB, CB and CM were awful last night and this along with another FORWARD are the positions that were identified as where we really need to upgrade.

Now I know it's probably unrealistic to believe people on here will be able to but we really need to understand this is the beginning of the process and we need to temper expectations and let Conte get us to where we all want to be. I know some of you don't buy into ITK and think it's largely spin from the club, well I'd urge you not to take my word for it, and actually listen to what Conte is and has been saying for weeks........

"We are some way behind the best teams in this league, and it will take a lot of work to get us to that level". "THIS CAN NOT HAPPEN IN ONE TRANSFER WINDOW AND ESPECIALLY IN JANUARY WHERE THINGS ARE FAR MORE DIFFICULT".


I know some of you will be saying(and rightfully so) heard this all before, and you are right you have. This is different though for so many reasons. We now have a top level coach who the club are backing, we really need to get behind it and at least give it the Summer window he's said from the start he needs. We will have up's and downs on the way, but we are on track for where Conte expects us to be come next August.

 

[HodisGawd]

Whether you buy into ITK or not, you have to buy into reason and sensible analysis. And this is thoroughly reasonable. There's nothing to disagree with here.

Quit the impatience. We are in this for the long term.

 

[kaz Hirai]

oh the scenes when we have a really average window missing out on a ton of top players in the summer will be gloriously haunting, and funny at the same time.

the pained optimism that leads to despair every single time pre and post window

 

[cjbyid]

This post makes me happy.

 

[Rosco1984]

I honestly didn't realise there were so many on here that just don't actually understand the game, and the reality of how things really work in team sports. It's actually quite alarming that some posters can spend hours every day talking about all things football on here, and yet just expect things to happen like they do on Fifa or football manager. I'm not talking about genuine criticism that is valid, I'm talking about writing a young kid off after 30 minutes of football in a new country, and not understanding how an entire rebuild isn't going to happen over night.

At the very start of the transfer window I made a detailed post regarding how the club was moving forward, how there were plans in place that the manager, DOF and chairman were firmly behind. It was about being patient because the club had a two window strategy in order to be ready to compete properly next season. January was about getting all our ducks in a row so that come the Summer things could progress to where we have needed them to be for years. Deadwood players off the wage bill and in the shop window elsewhere. Come the Summer it won't be about having to move players out first, or freeing up wages and we can just get on with preparing for the coming season.

Those of you that keep shouting about top 4, and missed opportunities really need to understand that was never the main aim. Of course we'd like it, and will be doing all we can to get there this season, but not at the expense of being optimum for 22-23. "Why didn't we get a RWB in January" well because the one we really want isn't available until the Summer. Traore was seen as a possibility, but only at the price we were willing to go to, and the fact he could cover other roles as well. We could have bought another RWB to get by, but we'd rather the one we really want, rather than a makeshift purchase that affects long term progression. This is the same for other positions and why those we brought in were done as they were. Bentacur was the only full purchase this window as we were sure of what we were getting. Kulusevki is only a loan and only becomes permanent if he does well(this needs to be remembered).

Criticism at times is valid for sure and last night for instance I can completely understand why there was a fair amount. It's worth pointing out though that the players that really struggled last night(and boy were they poor) are the positions we are actively looking to upgrade in the Summer and have been planning to from the off. RWB, CB and CM were awful last night and this along with another FORWARD are the positions that were identified as where we really need to upgrade.

Now I know it's probably unrealistic to believe people on here will be able to but we really need to understand this is the beginning of the process and we need to temper expectations and let Conte get us to where we all want to be. I know some of you don't buy into ITK and think it's largely spin from the club, well I'd urge you not to take my word for it, and actually listen to what Conte is and has been saying for weeks........

"We are some way behind the best teams in this league, and it will take a lot of work to get us to that level". "THIS CAN NOT HAPPEN IN ONE TRANSFER WINDOW AND ESPECIALLY IN JANUARY WHERE THINGS ARE FAR MORE DIFFICULT".


I know some of you will be saying(and rightfully so) heard this all before, and you are right you have. This is different though for so many reasons. We now have a top level coach who the club are backing, we really need to get behind it and at least give it the Summer window he's said from the start he needs. We will have up's and downs on the way, but we are on track for where Conte expects us to be come next August.

absolutely spot on you cant judge our forward players or a new player joining the side when we play a side who press like crazy because we still have the same group of players at the back and in the middle who can look good against deeper teams but absolutely melt under a high press.

 

[Russ1201]

I honestly didn't realise there were so many on here that just don't actually understand the game, and the reality of how things really work in team sports. It's actually quite alarming that some posters can spend hours every day talking about all things football on here, and yet just expect things to happen like they do on Fifa or football manager. I'm not talking about genuine criticism that is valid, I'm talking about writing a young kid off after 30 minutes of football in a new country, and not understanding how an entire rebuild isn't going to happen over night.

At the very start of the transfer window I made a detailed post regarding how the club was moving forward, how there were plans in place that the manager, DOF and chairman were firmly behind. It was about being patient because the club had a two window strategy in order to be ready to compete properly next season. January was about getting all our ducks in a row so that come the Summer things could progress to where we have needed them to be for years. Deadwood players off the wage bill and in the shop window elsewhere. Come the Summer it won't be about having to move players out first, or freeing up wages and we can just get on with preparing for the coming season.

Those of you that keep shouting about top 4, and missed opportunities really need to understand that was never the main aim. Of course we'd like it, and will be doing all we can to get there this season, but not at the expense of being optimum for 22-23. "Why didn't we get a RWB in January" well because the one we really want isn't available until the Summer. Traore was seen as a possibility, but only at the price we were willing to go to, and the fact he could cover other roles as well. We could have bought another RWB to get by, but we'd rather the one we really want, rather than a makeshift purchase that affects long term progression. This is the same for other positions and why those we brought in were done as they were. Bentacur was the only full purchase this window as we were sure of what we were getting. Kulusevki is only a loan and only becomes permanent if he does well(this needs to be remembered).

Criticism at times is valid for sure and last night for instance I can completely understand why there was a fair amount. It's worth pointing out though that the players that really struggled last night(and boy were they poor) are the positions we are actively looking to upgrade in the Summer and have been planning to from the off. RWB, CB and CM were awful last night and this along with another FORWARD are the positions that were identified as where we really need to upgrade.

Now I know it's probably unrealistic to believe people on here will be able to but we really need to understand this is the beginning of the process and we need to temper expectations and let Conte get us to where we all want to be. I know some of you don't buy into ITK and think it's largely spin from the club, well I'd urge you not to take my word for it, and actually listen to what Conte is and has been saying for weeks........

"We are some way behind the best teams in this league, and it will take a lot of work to get us to that level". "THIS CAN NOT HAPPEN IN ONE TRANSFER WINDOW AND ESPECIALLY IN JANUARY WHERE THINGS ARE FAR MORE DIFFICULT".


I know some of you will be saying(and rightfully so) heard this all before, and you are right you have. This is different though for so many reasons. We now have a top level coach who the club are backing, we really need to get behind it and at least give it the Summer window he's said from the start he needs. We will have up's and downs on the way, but we are on track for where Conte expects us to be come next August.

Great post, do you think Conte will stay if we don't get atleast the Europa league? My fear is if we get 7th for example and Man Utd come in for him who have Champions league football Conte will be away. Hopefully i'm wrong but i have doubts a manager of Conte ability would want another season of no Champs league football.


On the rwb position is the player we are waiting for in the summer a real possibility? Or just a target.

 

[Japhet]

The only thing I'd say is that a top 4 finish would surely make our Summer dealings a lot easier. Hopefully we'll be better set for that with Skipp and Dier back.

 

[Trix]

Great post, do you think Conte will stay if we don't get atleast the Europa league? My fear is if we get 7th for example and Man Utd come in for him who have Champions league football Conte will be away. Hopefully i'm wrong but i have doubts a manager of Conte ability would want another season of no Champs league football.


On the rwb position is the player we are waiting for in the summer a real possibility? Or just a target.

It's his vision we are working towards, and he's very happy with the way things were planned out. AGAIN it's never been about this season and being ready for next. As long as we push the way he expects for next season he will be here imo.

 

[JacoZA]

A well-written, rational post which will almost certainly fall on the deaf ears of those at who it is aimed.

 

[The Doc]

Good op, but that is the problem. Most don't understand what they are watching (including me). At least, not much more than surface level. One of the reasons I want to do coaching badges eventually, as it should give me an improved appreciation of the games. On top of that, I will get to resurrect the glory days of Charles Hughes as I shatter the dreams of a group of 7 year olds by yelling at them to "launch it" at every opportunity.

 

[Russ1201]

It's his vision we are working towards, and he's very happy with the way things were planned out. AGAIN it's never been about this season and being ready for next. As long as we push the way he expects for next season he will be here imo.

Thanks, i will trust the rebuild and hopefully we get some luck with our transfer targets as there is a lot of changes needed.

 

[dagraham]

I honestly didn't realise there were so many on here that just don't actually understand the game, and the reality of how things really work in team sports. It's actually quite alarming that some posters can spend hours every day talking about all things football on here, and yet just expect things to happen like they do on Fifa or football manager. I'm not talking about genuine criticism that is valid, I'm talking about writing a young kid off after 30 minutes of football in a new country, and not understanding how an entire rebuild isn't going to happen over night.

At the very start of the transfer window I made a detailed post regarding how the club was moving forward, how there were plans in place that the manager, DOF and chairman were firmly behind. It was about being patient because the club had a two window strategy in order to be ready to compete properly next season. January was about getting all our ducks in a row so that come the Summer things could progress to where we have needed them to be for years. Deadwood players off the wage bill and in the shop window elsewhere. Come the Summer it won't be about having to move players out first, or freeing up wages and we can just get on with preparing for the coming season.

Those of you that keep shouting about top 4, and missed opportunities really need to understand that was never the main aim. Of course we'd like it, and will be doing all we can to get there this season, but not at the expense of being optimum for 22-23. "Why didn't we get a RWB in January" well because the one we really want isn't available until the Summer. Traore was seen as a possibility, but only at the price we were willing to go to, and the fact he could cover other roles as well. We could have bought another RWB to get by, but we'd rather the one we really want, rather than a makeshift purchase that affects long term progression. This is the same for other positions and why those we brought in were done as they were. Bentacur was the only full purchase this window as we were sure of what we were getting. Kulusevki is only a loan and only becomes permanent if he does well(this needs to be remembered).

Criticism at times is valid for sure and last night for instance I can completely understand why there was a fair amount. It's worth pointing out though that the players that really struggled last night(and boy were they poor) are the positions we are actively looking to upgrade in the Summer and have been planning to from the off. RWB, CB and CM were awful last night and this along with another FORWARD are the positions that were identified as where we really need to upgrade.

Now I know it's probably unrealistic to believe people on here will be able to but we really need to understand this is the beginning of the process and we need to temper expectations and let Conte get us to where we all want to be. I know some of you don't buy into ITK and think it's largely spin from the club, well I'd urge you not to take my word for it, and actually listen to what Conte is and has been saying for weeks........

"We are some way behind the best teams in this league, and it will take a lot of work to get us to that level". "THIS CAN NOT HAPPEN IN ONE TRANSFER WINDOW AND ESPECIALLY IN JANUARY WHERE THINGS ARE FAR MORE DIFFICULT".


I know some of you will be saying(and rightfully so) heard this all before, and you are right you have. This is different though for so many reasons. We now have a top level coach who the club are backing, we really need to get behind it and at least give it the Summer window he's said from the start he needs. We will have up's and downs on the way, but we are on track for where Conte expects us to be come next August.

I think a lot of problem is that many posters overate our players and for some time just use the manager as a fall guy.

So when a better manager comes in they expect the world and get overexcited after we seem to be improving and in their minds look at the table and think “we should get top four/the other challengers are poor” etc.

I get that a lot of it is just people trying to be positive in a sea of negativity, which is fair enough, but the reality is you can’t polish a turd and unfortunately our recruitment over the last 5 years or so has left us plenty of turds, some of which are still in the current team/squad.

So, of course after a game like last night the balloon is deflated and it all comes out. I won’t lie, even though I lean towards more of a negative and cynical viewpoint with Spurs, even I was surprised by how Southampton totally bossed us ( if you knew nothing about the PL you could easily have thought they were one of the top 5/6 teams).

But yeah, January was never going to sort things. Of course if we hadn’t had the post Jose/Nuno debacle we’d most likely be in a far better position, but that’s another debate and in the past.

I’ll still remain cynical about what we do from now on and wait for things to actually happen before I become convinced, but if Conte is content then I agree we need to show a bit of patience……. as you know, as Spurs fans we should be well conditioned to that anyway.

 

[Aphex]

Spot on. I said the same in the Conte post this morning Trix, the positions where we were awful last night are ones where it is obvious we are planning to upgrade.

Half of the team that played last night will either be at new clubs, or pure back ups next season, for the very reason we witnessed.

That said, the criticism the team and players got last night was entirely justified. Just because they are likely surplus to requirements, doesn't mean they get away with the rubbish they served up. Especially as until they are actively replaced, there's always that slight doubt that they will still be in the team next season.

 

[tommyt]

This constant criticism, the 'I know best (better) and desire for 'instant' success to me is a reflection of of a wider societal trend. Nearly everything we 'want' can be obtained instantly - 24/7 everything.

Couple that with an absolute craving for success (which is fair) and how close we were to grasping it under Poch really draws out anger, frustration and entitlement that can be seen with every defeat and in every transfer window.

Patience, whilst shitty, really is a virtue.

 

[0-Tibsy-0]

oh the scenes when we have a really average window missing out on a ton of top players in the summer will be gloriously terrifying, and funny at the same time

You would think we'd have gotten used to it by now. But then again - it always has been ,and always will be, the hope that kills you.

But the hoping and the dreaming, even when illogical, is why we're here I guess.

 

[Trix]

Spot on. I said the same in the Conte post this morning Trix, the positions where we were awful last night are ones where it is obvious we are planning to upgrade.

Half of the team that played last night will either be at new clubs, or pure back ups next season, for the very reason we witnessed.

That said, the criticism the team and players got last night was entirely justified. Just because they are likely surplus to requirements, doesn't mean they get away with the rubbish they served up. Especially as until they are actively replaced, there's always that slight doubt that they will still be in the team next season.

I criticised them myself last night for the performance(first half especially). I even condoned the booing at half time. Had the crowd been on their backs all game I'd have not done so, but they did everything they could to lift the team first half and they just didn't respond at all. Letting the players know that wasn't acceptable was fair enough imo especially as they tried to again drive them on straight after the break.

That is not what I started the thread for though, it's about tempering expectation based on the players we currently have, and the process we are going through.

 

[THE SPURSBOY]

Trix, do you think we are going to be able to do all the business required to be competitive next season, as Conte mentions not competitive for top 4 but for the title, we are miles off city pool and chelsea, squad wise we need about 10 players to cope with a season in whichever european comp we are in and a league title push cause the majoirty of the current team couldn't cope with the ECL and league now. Soo many upgrades needed

 

[Dakes]

It's his vision we are working towards, and he's very happy with the way things were planned out. AGAIN it's never been about this season and being ready for next. As long as we push the way he expects for next season he will be here imo.

"Those of you that keep shouting about top 4, and missed opportunities really need to understand that was never the main aim. Of course we'd like it, and will be doing all we can to get there this season..."

"...at least give it the Summer window he's said from the start he needs. We will have up's and downs on the way, but we are on track for where Conte expects us to be come next August."

Trix, based off the above two quotes, if we fail to get Top 4 and as a result struggle to get in his preferred targets during the summer window, will he be content with lesser options considering that he's targeting the summer so that we're well set to challenge to his liking next season?

 

[Aphex]

I criticised them myself last night for the performance(first half especially). I even condoned the booing at half time. Had the crowd been on their backs all game I'd have not done so, but they did everything they could to lift the team first half and they just didn't respond at all. Letting the players know that wasn't acceptable was fair enough imo especially as they tried to again drive them on straight after the break.

That is not what I started the thread for though, it's about tempering expectation based on the players we currently have, and the process we are going through.

Yes, I agree. We just need to slog through until the summer, and hope somehow Conte can get us to 4th.

If we miss out it may not be a disaster, but it could well limit who we bring in, because we absolutely need to sign quality replacements

 

[Wadec]

Glad you've posted this. We are all disappointed with last night's performance but we are a work in progress, it's important to remember that.

Also has to be said Southampton were fantastic last night. They forced us to play long hopeful balls for the most part. The few occasions we were able to play through them we either scored or created good chances.

As you quite rightly say, Conte has called for patience. For me it's as simple as this. We are not able to field our finished team yet as we have only just started the rebuild. Conte knows this, we know this, this is now a 4 month Conte pre season for a lot of the squad. If we get top 4 amazing, if we don't it's not the end of the world as the focus was next season.