The Regeneration of Tottenham Thread

[Delboy75]

This will be new walk from station.

 

[C1w8]

Disgraceful from the Council, after all the cash and resources the club has put into the area
I was all for us moving out of Tottenham to a place where we'd be appreciated. Well we're stuck here now, just hope one day the area gets a Council that's pro Spurs

Can only speak for myself but dont get this, moving this team out of the area i wouldn't support it, whether it did an MK Dons and rebranded or tried to keep the name even though it wasnt in the area.

Politics aside im supporting the team because its in the area, thats where the fandom started, and would support the team that popped up after it, rather than a transplant in some random area of the south east because it made better financial sense.

And long live chick king!

 

[ShelfWatcher]

Can only speak for myself but dont get this, moving this team out of the area i wouldn't support it, whether it did an MK Dons and rebranded or tried to keep the name even though it wasnt in the area.

Politics aside im supporting the team because its in the area, thats where the fandom started, and would support the team that popped up after it, rather than a transplant in some random area of the south east because it made better financial sense.

And long live chick king!

Fair enough, that's how you see it, I see it different. At the time the decisions were being made, the core of our stadium going support was in places like the Home Counties, and spread out round Greater London.
I think we could have found a more supportive Council and got a better deal elsewhere.
We chose to stay, and I think most fans were happy about that, so fine, I accept the majority verdict. Doesn't mean I agreed with it, and I think the current Council should be more supportive of us.

 

[Wick3d]

These graphics look almost identical to the development up the road in Enfield

 

[PCozzie]

Awful.

View attachment 114851

Oh man that looks so uninspiring. Usually the 'look what you're getting folks' renders look at least 50% better than the reality, but if this is what the idealistic projection looks like then I don't know what to say. That could be a sketch of any current side road off the A10 anywhere from Enfield to Dalston.

 

[C1w8]

Fair enough, that's how you see it, I see it different. At the time the decisions were being made, the core of our stadium going support was in places like the Home Counties, and spread out round Greater London.
I think we could have found a more supportive Council and got a better deal elsewhere.
We chose to stay, and I think most fans were happy about that, so fine, I accept the majority verdict. Doesn't mean I agreed with it, and I think the current Council should be more supportive of us.

I live miles away these days, moving to stratford wouldve definitely have made the commute easier if that ended up going through (so glad it didnt though!).

I dont think a team should be trying to follow its fan base location after having so much history in one place, a slight move ok but certainly nothing dramatic...again just to use stratford as something that was on the table at some stage, that would've been too far and breaks the link between the team and area for me personally, in particular in our instance when we have literally taken the place name as the team name. The Manchesters and Sheffields of the world have a much broader link to a wider area...

Just out of interest would you be happy for the the team to move out to say the Home Counties if part of it was to change the name a la MK Dons..?

 

[Delboy75]

These graphics look almost identical to the development up the road in Enfield

it amazes me people can study for so many years to become an Architect and the produce such dross. Maybe they have to follow a company line but so much is just copy and paste.

 

[Albertbarich]

it amazes me people can study for so many years to become an Architect and the produce such dross. Maybe they have to follow a company line but so much is just copy and paste.

I bet they're really restricted with costs, materials and even space.

Plus I reckon most big developers just use identikit designs across new estates.

 

[Wine Gum]

it amazes me people can study for so many years to become an Architect and the produce such dross. Maybe they have to follow a company line but so much is just copy and paste.

Depends what brief the Architects get from their Employer. Levy clearly gave Populus a brief to come up with something special. Lendlease were clearly not too fussy about having a award winning design.

 

[harrmaud]

So presumably the club will now legally challenge this approval?

Does this decision completely nix all of the club's plans? I thought that the lendlease application included provisions for some of our plans to go ahead?

 

[davidmatzdorf]

So presumably the club will now legally challenge this approval?

The legal challenge available to a granted planning consent is a judicial review. A judicial review cannot deal with the substance of the application (i.e., its quality), only whether the local authority correctly followed the law and required procedures in granting it.

Prior to the government ceasing to function at all, so it could concentrate on Johnson's survival as PM, there were concrete plans to reduce and water down the basis for judicial review - to make it harder to challenge granted planning consents - primarily because the government is trying to stop NIMBYs from obstructing any and all development in non-urban areas. Spurious, nuisance judicial reviews are very much a thing.

Although I am all in favour of making life harder for NIMBYs, eliminating the public's ability to challenge a planning consent on procedural grounds is completely the wrong way to go about it.

I have no idea whether these changes will come into force in time to affect this planning consent, but there will inevitably be one or more further applications to get approval for the "reserved matters" that are not detailed in the outline consent.

You can't build anything based on an outline planning consent. They are useful when someone wants to buy land and needs to know whether it has development potential in principle, or when a developer owns land and needs to secure funding to develop it. But nothing gets built until the most important reserved matters (bulk, external appearance, number of units, siting, vehicular access, that kind of thing) have been approved.

 

[ShelfWatcher]

I live miles away these days, moving to stratford wouldve definitely have made the commute easier if that ended up going through (so glad it didnt though!).

I dont think a team should be trying to follow its fan base location after having so much history in one place, a slight move ok but certainly nothing dramatic...again just to use stratford as something that was on the table at some stage, that would've been too far and breaks the link between the team and area for me personally, in particular in our instance when we have literally taken the place name as the team name. The Manchesters and Sheffields of the world have a much broader link to a wider area...

Just out of interest would you be happy for the the team to move out to say the Home Counties if part of it was to change the name a la MK Dons..?

Well we're not moving so it's pointless going into detail
I was all for Stratford, I don't like our council. Been going to the Lane for sixty years, so many fond memories, but want us to succeed and if that meant moving, then fine. But we're not, so it is as it is. I just hope we get a Council that appreciates us, and doesn't see us as a cash cow

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

Not really been following all of this but some of those buildings along the High Rd really do need cleaning up and I note in one of the comments from someone living in Love Lane how the area is reportedly infested with rats.
I also see something like 300 objections to the scheme including one from THFC and about 8 in support .

Online Planning Services: Application search results

 

[Wine Gum]

Does this decision completely nix all of the club's plans? I thought that the lendlease application included provisions for some of our plans to go ahead?

This is an interesting one. The Club own much of the land footprint that the Lendlease plans include so they would need to Compulsory Purchase it and the Club will fight tooth and nail against that as they have their own plans with Planning Consent in the bag albeit are seeking to revise those plans. The Printworks Site is not part of the Leanslease area nor is some properties on the High Road itself AFAIK.

 

[Wick3d]

You can't build anything based on an outline planning consent. They are useful when someone wants to buy land and needs to know whether it has development potential in principle, or when a developer owns land and needs to secure funding to develop it. But nothing gets built until the most important reserved matters (bulk, external appearance, number of units, siting, vehicular access, that kind of thing) have been approved.

What is with the club then banging the drum that the planning premission being an outline is a negative? If what you said is true, then I don't see how that is a valid concern for the club.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

What is with the club then banging the drum that the planning premission being an outline is a negative? If what you said is true, then I don't see how that is a valid concern for the club.

Because the council has approved a badly thought, poor quality out master plan, over the objections of the largest financial and business player in the area.

They have done this because they have locked themselves into a typically one-sided, exploitative contractual arrangement with LendLease (a bad choice to start with) and LendLease have the council's bollocks in a vise.

To clarify the bit about outline planning consent: I said they can't start building anything based on an outline consent. They need to have the reserved matters approved first. But it's possible they can carry out demolition and site clearance based on the outline consent.

More to the point, anything that has been approved in the outline - number of residential units, siting and height of buildings, density, community provision, amount and type of commercial floor space - LendLease can bank on being approved in the later stages - it acts as a precedent. I don't know what has been approved, because haven't read the officer's report, nor the minutes, nor the outline consent itself. We're stuck with anything in it.

LendLease could propose a load of shit buildings and a poor layout and the council could reject that, but the council cannot reject any aspect that has already been approved in the outline. There are plenty of trenchant points about those aspects of the design in Levy's letter and they are now formally approved, such that there is fuck-all anyone can do about it, unless there are grounds for a judicial review.

The main problem is that the council pretty much has to do what LendLease tell them, or LL can take their money and walk. As I have written many times, the entire English planning system is corrupt. Local planning authorities are broadly at the mercy of the mega-developers, such as Argent, Fairview, LendLease, Barratts and numerous others. Occasionally, when councils grow a spine, the mega-developers are not averse to making some carefully targeted, um, payments.

 

[Delboy75]

Considering how strongly Levy feels about this and considering Tavistock historical and current massive scale property developments I’m actually quite surprised they haven’t tried to take over the whole HRW site and do something really special. Maybe they did it’s been going on so long and so many twists and turns I’ve actually lost track.

 

[Wine Gum]

Hangingey signed a Memorandum of Understanding with The Club to do just that but then decided to take the current route through a tender process that ended up with Lendlease being appointed as their Development partner.

I still don’t understand how Lenlease are going to build out on the land owned by the Club. Any purchase will be expensive as the Club has planning consent for it. Going the Compulsory Purchase route could take years to resolve. With planning consent couldn’t the Club just start building themselves.

 

[Delboy75]

Hangingey signed a Memorandum of Understanding with The Club to do just that but then decided to take the current route through a tender process that ended up with Lendlease being appointed as their Development partner.

I still don’t understand how Lenlease are going to build out on the land owned by the Club. Any purchase will be expensive as the Club has planning consent for it. Going the Compulsory Purchase route could take years to resolve. With planning consent couldn’t the Club just start building themselves.

Maybe levy/Lewis think they can make it so much hassle for lendlease they just give up and the council come crawling back to the club. Obviously there’s probably monetary reasons but it’s kind of actually just a bit sh*t that the club give so much to the area and are basically owned by one of the most advanced credible property developers in the world and yet they decided to go with these clowns lendlease.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

these clowns lendlease

Do have any idea how fucking big Lendlease is? They're on very continent of the world and have a string of super-high-profile projects in their portfolio.

This is capitalism: they start waving their wedge around and local planning authorities jump.