The stadium myth..

[Sevens]

I don’t really get the 38 away games bit. Don’t get why it’s so difficult for a group of professionals to play on a different piece of grass for one season. For opposing teams I’m sure it also became just another ground. Bit weak this wembley pat on the back/excuse of ours

Nothing to get. It's complete BS. I'm sure there are a few initial psychological edges to a regular home ground but ultimately the home advantage really stems from the fact your entire life routine isn't uprooted, e.g. no travel, no distant hotel etc. The other stuff like how the pitch performs, the familarness of the changing rooms sinks in after a couple of matches.

The whole Wembley hoo doo was nonsense as well. It's not as if we never struggled at WHL to break teams down. We had a wonderful record at WHL the season before but people forget that we struggled in a fair few of those matches until one of our star players popped up with a wonder goal or we scored from a set piece etc. That said, I think we may have converted a couple of draws into wins had it been WHL but I doubt we'd be much better of than 3 to 5 points.

On balance it's been a very good season. Had we played at WHL instead of Wembley? I think we may have been a more comfortable third, maybe even got second. The only thing I'll wonder is whether we would have blown it against Juventus had the game been at WHL. But realistically, we'd have probably played our CL games at Wembley again even if we had been at WHL so it's a moot point.

 

[FreddieYid]

I don’t really get the 38 away games bit. Don’t get why it’s so difficult for a group of professionals to play on a different piece of grass for one season. For opposing teams I’m sure it also became just another ground. Bit weak this wembley pat on the back/excuse of ours

Because this isn’t Sunday league football... We’re not playing in a park... and there’s so much more to it than a piece of grass...

come the second half of the season, it becomes less of ‘a thing’ due to the players becoming more comfortable and familiar with their surroundings. At the beginning of the campaign the players aren’t as comfortable with their surroundings, so bar the split of fans, we gave up our home advantage.

This is elite level sport and the margins are tiny. Add to that the physiological side of hearing the world and their wife talking about how you will struggle there. Add to that the fact that a day out at Wembley is a big motivation for a lot of visiting teams who don’t reach finals and semi finals regularly and can get that extra couple of % out of them.

I’d have bitten your hand off for a top 4 finish before the season started. I was dreading it and am over the moon that we’re getting out that place.

 

[worcestersauce]

We took two points from our first nine at home, we didn't win until our fourth home game, that was because we were playing at Wembley and that was where we lost second place, after that we settled and started winning and that is testament to how good we are.

 

[Shadydan]

People who still don't think that Wembley was a disadvantage

Look at the respective home/away form from this season and last season, it's clear for all to see ffs lol

 

[alexis]

People who still don't think that Wembley was a disadvantage

Look at the respective home/away form from this season and last season, it's clear for all to see ffs lol

More factors to put into play than that

 

[Shadydan]

More factors to put into play than that

As in?

 

[alexis]

As in?

Other teams for starters

 

[Sevens]

People who still don't think that Wembley was a disadvantage

Look at the respective home/away form from this season and last season, it's clear for all to see ffs lol

Using just last season isn't a great indicator as it could easily be defined as an outlier as our home form last year was exceptional. Even if we'd played at WHL this season I doubt we'd have matched it. As you can see from the below this season's Wembley home form was considerably better than most WHL seasons. Indeed if you ignore last season you have to go back to 2009/10 to when it was bettered.

2017/18 - W13, D4, L2, F40 A16, GD+24, Pts 43
2016/17 - W17, D2, L0, F47 A9, GD+38, Pts 53
2015/16 - W10, D6, L3, F35 A15, GD+20, Pts 36
2014/15 - W10, D3, L6, F31 A24, GD+7, Pts 33
2013/14 - W11, D3, L5, F30 A23, GD+7, Pts 36
2012/13 - W11, D5, L3, F29 A18, GD+11, Pts 38
2011/12 - W13, D3, L3, F39, A17, GD+22, Pts 42
2010/11 - W9, D9, L1, F30, A19, GD+11, Pts 36
2009/10 - W14, D2, L3, F40 A12, GD+28, Pts 44

 

[Shadydan]

Other teams for starters

E-lab-o-rate please.

Yes, other teams improved but essentially we went from having the 5th best away form to the 2nd this season so I think it's pretty clear we suffered as a result of playing away from WHL.

 

[CheeseGromit]

Using just last season isn't a great indicator as it could easily be defined as an outlier as our home form last year was exceptional. Even if we'd played at WHL this season I doubt we'd have matched it. As you can see from the below this season's Wembley home form was considerably better than most WHL seasons. Indeed if you ignore last season you have to go back to 2009/10 to when it was bettered.

2017/18 - W13, D4, L2, F40 A16, GD+24, Pts 43
2016/17 - W17, D2, L0, F47 A9, GD+38, Pts 53
2015/16 - W10, D6, L3, F35 A15, GD+20, Pts 36
2014/15 - W10, D3, L6, F31 A24, GD+7, Pts 33
2013/14 - W11, D3, L5, F30 A23, GD+7, Pts 36
2012/13 - W11, D5, L3, F29 A18, GD+11, Pts 38
2011/12 - W13, D3, L3, F39, A17, GD+22, Pts 42
2010/11 - W9, D9, L1, F30, A19, GD+11, Pts 36
2009/10 - W14, D2, L3, F40 A12, GD+28, Pts 44

Ah but you also have to take into account the quality of our team each season and to a lesser extent the availability ( injuries suspension etc) of first choice players

 

[Sevens]

We took two points from our first nine at home, we didn't win until our fourth home game, that was because we were playing at Wembley and that was where we lost second place, after that we settled and started winning and that is testament to how good we are.

I'm not convinced. Under Poch we've often start the season off unconvincingly regardless of how the results are going. We seem to hit our form between just before Xmas to April.

Take the 15/16 season. We drew three of our first five home games, including Stoke and Everton. In 14/15 we lost three of our first five home games, including WBA and Newcastle.

I don't think there is enough data either way to confirm either way what effect, if any, Wembley had on us.

 

[Sevens]

Ah but you also have to take into account the quality of our team each season and to a lesser extent the availability ( injuries suspension etc) of first choice players

Of course, there are a lot of factors to take into consideration, including how strong the opposition is too in terms of injuries and form at the time you play them. But there is little doubt in my mind that Poch teams start the season slow in form.

It's going to be interesting next season to see what happens as I do feel Levy doesn't help his managers out much by leaving transfer dealings to the last minute, by which time games have already been played. This year the window shuts firmly before the season start. Unfortunately as it is WC year that will hinder pre-season prep but that will affect every team so no excuses there really.

 

[Shadydan]

Using just last season isn't a great indicator as it could easily be defined as an outlier as our home form last year was exceptional. Even if we'd played at WHL this season I doubt we'd have matched it. As you can see from the below this season's Wembley home form was considerably better than most WHL seasons. Indeed if you ignore last season you have to go back to 2009/10 to when it was bettered.

2017/18 - W13, D4, L2, F40 A16, GD+24, Pts 43
2016/17 - W17, D2, L0, F47 A9, GD+38, Pts 53
2015/16 - W10, D6, L3, F35 A15, GD+20, Pts 36
2014/15 - W10, D3, L6, F31 A24, GD+7, Pts 33
2013/14 - W11, D3, L5, F30 A23, GD+7, Pts 36
2012/13 - W11, D5, L3, F29 A18, GD+11, Pts 38
2011/12 - W13, D3, L3, F39, A17, GD+22, Pts 42
2010/11 - W9, D9, L1, F30, A19, GD+11, Pts 36
2009/10 - W14, D2, L3, F40 A12, GD+28, Pts 44

I used last season because it's a direct comparison with this season because the team was similar, I didn't expect to match it but generally when you make a comparison you take the most recent example which was last season.

What you don't do is go back every season for the previous 8 years because the team, players and dynamics have changed so much, what are we going to find out find out from the fact that we had 6 losses in 2014 to form a comparison now?

What's more looking at the matches in isolation where we dropped points from last season (Burnley) (Swansea) (Chelsea) (City) (West Brom) 4 of those matches came in the first 3 months of the season when we were still settling in, we beat Burnley, Chelsea and Swansea away quite comfortably, City well beat us no problem there and West Brom we thrashed a better West Brom team last season at WHL We beat Leicester and Liverpool this season as opposed to drawing with them last season so we gained 4 more points there.

I think the early part of the season messed us up a little, that's where we lost the extra few points which IMO would have put us in 2nd not to mention our away form were excellent and clearly enjoyed playing away from home especially at the start of the season.

 

[Sevens]

I used last season because it's a direct comparison with this season because the team was similar, I didn't expect to match it but generally when you make a comparison you take the most recent example which was last season.

What you don't do is go back every season for the previous 8 years because the team, players and dynamics have changed so much, what are we going to find out find out from the fact that we had 6 losses in 2014 to form a comparison now?

What's more looking at the matches in isolation where we dropped points from last season (Burnley) (Swansea) (Chelsea) (City) (West Brom) 4 of those matches came in the first 3 months of the season when we were still settling in, we beat Burnley, Chelsea and Swansea away quite comfortably, City well beat us no problem there and West Brom we thrashed a better West Brom team last season at WHL We beat Leicester and Liverpool this season as opposed to drawing with them last season so we gained 4 more points there.

I think the early part of the season messed us up a little, that's where we lost the extra few points which IMO would have put us in 2nd not to mention our away form were excellent and clearly enjoyed playing away from home especially at the start of the season.

This team isn't the same as last season either though. Especially as we had so much success playing 5-3-2 last year and this year we switched back to a 4-2-3-1. Was that switch due to Wembley?

 

[Shadydan]

This team isn't the same as last season either though. Especially as we had so much success playing 5-3-2 last year and this year we switched back to a 4-2-3-1. Was that switch due to Wembley?

Yeah it's not the same but it's a lot more relevant that going back 2 years, that's how you make a direct comparison.

Wouldn't say the formation switch hurt us either, our first 4 away matches we won them all playing 4-2-3-1, scored 12 and let in 2, our first 4 home matches we won 1, drew 2 and lost 1 scoring 3 goals and let in 2, tells you all you need to know really.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

I don't know why people think sleeping in a hotel is different than your own bed. I mean a bed is a bed.

 

[Sevens]

Yeah it's not the same but it's a lot more relevant that going back 2 years, that's how you make a direct comparison.

Wouldn't say the formation switch hurt us either, our first 4 away matches we won them all playing 4-2-3-1, scored 12 and let in 2, our first 4 home matches we won 1, drew 2 and lost 1 scoring 3 goals and let in 2, tells you all you need to know really.

I think you're missing the point of statistical analysis. What the analysis shoes is that the 2016/17 season was not normal. Even if we had played at WHL this season it is highly unlikely we'd have got anywhere near those stats again.

So ultimately we don't know if Wembley had a positive or negative effect. What I do know is that it's a weak mentality to blame Wembley. If Wembley was such a disadvantage to us then by equal measures it should have been a big advantage for us in the FA Cup semi final.

The whole Wembley thing came from our poor CL showing last year. But that wasn't down to the pitch. That was down to horrific Pochettino tactics at the time. Then the media did their best to make out we had some kind of psychological complex about Wembley which was complete BS.

 

[Dr Benson]

I don’t really get the 38 away games bit. Don’t get why it’s so difficult for a group of professionals to play on a different piece of grass for one season. For opposing teams I’m sure it also became just another ground. Bit weak this wembley pat on the back/excuse of ours

You might have a point, but is there really anything to excuse after all? We ended as 3rd with major competition from our best rivals, with moderate budget in maybe this worlds best or second best league. And after all we did play our home games away.

 

[Sevens]

I don't know why people think sleeping in a hotel is different than your own bed. I mean a bed is a bed.

Having travelled around the world for work I can tell you now, that a bed definitely isn't a bed!! But it's not just about sleeping in your bed, it's about the whole routine. There truly is no place like home.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

Having travelled around the world for work I can tell you now, that a bed definitely isn't a bed!! But it's not just about sleeping in your bed, it's about the whole routine. There truly is no place like home.

And, that is why playing at Wembley, was more than simply turning up and playing a match. Even playing there all season - it was never home. It was always the same as staying in a hotel. It was nice accommodations - but you always knew it was not yours to settle into and make your own.