The Summer 2024 scouting thread

[Dunc2610]

That's exactly what we need. A finisher who knows where to be and when to get there. Saying that he's more than that. He just isn't built for charging at full tilt from his own half every time he attacks like he was expected to do under Moyes.

But given how we play and how we press, is he really the answer? Look at the work Sonny and Richy put in pressing, will he do that given his' lazy' tag?

 

[Ghost Hardware]

Vlahovic injury concerns a thing of the past? I haven’t watched him this year

He seems to have got over his issues the second part of the season but it remains to be seen if he can stay injury free. Signs are encouraging tho. It’s worth noting that Scamacca has been just as injury prone over the last two seasons.

Scamacca

Vlahovic

 

[Cel]

That's exactly what we need. A finisher who knows where to be and when to get there. Saying that he's more than that. He just isn't built for charging at full tilt from his own half every time he attacks like he was expected to do under Moyes.

I don't disagree, but we'd have to hope he hits the ground running. Large part of our fan base will be itching to complain about us signing a 'west ham reject' before he even kicks a ball - he's a boo-boy magnet.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

Really the most important position we need to upgrade is DM. Forwards and wingers will sort themselves out in the system, but if we can’t sort the DM position - the rest won’t matter. We can already score goals, but we need a sound DM who can tie everything together.

 

[McFlash]

But given how we play and how we press, is he really the answer? Look at the work Sonny and Richy put in pressing, will he do that given his' lazy' tag?

I'm not sure Sonny is particularly good at pressing really, he runs about a bit but doesn't really pose a threat. I'm not sure he even closes down the passing lines very well tbh.

 

[Dunc2610]

I'm not sure Sonny is particularly good at pressing really, he runs about a bit but doesn't really pose a threat. I'm not sure he even closes down the passing lines very well tbh.

I guess the point is though, he moves! Good or not, it's a start!

 

[King of the Lane]

Really the most important position we need to upgrade is DM. Forwards and wingers will sort themselves out in the system, but if we can’t sort the DM position - the rest won’t matter. We can already score goals, but we need a sound DM who can tie everything together.

That guy is Palhinha for me but we wont spend what it will take to get him at his age. He would be perfect for us though so its a bit annoying as there arent really any other DM's that are that good and available. Onana is a different option but im not fully convinced about him.

 

[THOWIG]

Think we missed a trick in not getting Wharton.

 

[Tucker]

Think we missed a trick in not getting Wharton.

He's good, but is he any better than Sarr or Bentancur though? Or Bergvall even? It’s all well and good buying youngsters, but unless they are going to have a serious chance of getting in the team it’s pointless.

He made the right choice going to Palace.

 

[Viking78]

Joao Gomes and Ederson are high for defensive stats and both potentially more progressive than Bissouma.
Also intrigued by Maxence Cacqueret who is more of deep lying playmaker.

 

[Trix]

But given how we play and how we press, is he really the answer? Look at the work Sonny and Richy put in pressing, will he do that given his' lazy' tag?

Doesn't look lazy to me. Presses well imo. Again the full pitch press he was asked to do at West Ham is worlds apart from the press he'd be expected to do with us.

 

[jpascavitz]

Been looking all over for a press-resistant 6 and it's definitely a harder one than at striker/wing. Rodri is the golden goose IMO. Someone who recovers the ball well, can be a CDM when needed, but sets the offensive tone for passing as well.

A name I've come across a few times and like is Angelo Stiller from Stuttgart. They're having a fantastic season, currently in 3rd in the Bundesliga and he's been an unsung hero for them in the midfield. He's 23, has a wand of a left foot, and is great at finding the wingers in their system. Checks in a lot with his back to play and can play out. Averages over 1 tackle, interception, block, clearance, and aerials won per 90.

Weaknesses would be that he doesn't dribble successfully much, but I think that's because he's in the mould of a pure ball playing midfielder.

His Fbref similar players are: Kimmich, Aleix Garcia, Frenkie de Jong, Mac Allister, and Xaver Schlager. If you'd like to take a look:

 

[Snarfalicious]

Been looking all over for a press-resistant 6 and it's definitely a harder one than at striker/wing. Rodri is the golden goose IMO. Someone who recovers the ball well, can be a CDM when needed, but sets the offensive tone for passing as well.

A name I've come across a few times and like is Angelo Stiller from Stuttgart. They're having a fantastic season, currently in 3rd in the Bundesliga and he's been an unsung hero for them in the midfield. He's 23, has a wand of a left foot, and is great at finding the wingers in their system. Checks in a lot with his back to play and can play out. Averages over 1 tackle, interception, block, clearance, and aerials won per 90.

Weaknesses would be that he doesn't dribble successfully much, but I think that's because he's in the mould of a pure ball playing midfielder.

His Fbref similar players are: Kimmich, Aleix Garcia, Frenkie de Jong, Mac Allister, and Xaver Schlager. If you'd like to take a look:

Is he pretty good at sniffing out danger?

 

[Nick-TopSpursMan]

Agree the 6 position looks the hardest to get right.

At the moment I’m leaning towards Mats Wieffer or Onyedika but still doing some research.

Re Wieffer, I researched his stats just for the CL season and they stand up pretty well. He was top 99th percentile for ball recoveries which is a metric I’ve been looking at carefully since realising Rodri ranks top 99th percentile for it in the PL.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

Agree the 6 position looks the hardest to get right.

At the moment I’m leaning towards Mats Wieffer or Onyedika but still doing some research.

Re Wieffer, I researched his stats just for the CL season and they stand up pretty well. He was top 99th percentile for ball recoveries which is a metric I’ve been looking at carefully since realising Rodri ranks top 99th percentile for it in the PL.

What about Zubimendi that WLB said we were keen on?

 

[kremlyn]

If we are to spend bigly on any position this year it has to be on the dm. For me that player is Kimmich.

He's a senior pro, an adult, a winner for what is the single most important position in the team. The position requires enormous ammounts of concentration and responsibility and that comes with experience.

As much as I like the skills of the other options, they are all sub 25yrs old and will take too much time to get there. The only alternative would be Paulinha.

Plus he is comfortable at rb so would be great cover for Porro if he's injured and would add something as opposed to Emerson.

Spend the rest on young, talented but unproven wingers and AMs. With a senior DM anchoring, they have more safety from which to learn.

 

[fecka]

Agree the 6 position looks the hardest to get right.

At the moment I’m leaning towards Mats Wieffer or Onyedika but still doing some research.

Re Wieffer, I researched his stats just for the CL season and they stand up pretty well. He was top 99th percentile for ball recoveries which is a metric I’ve been looking at carefully since realising Rodri ranks top 99th percentile for it in the PL.

My only concern with Wieffer is the way he passes with "top spin" so often, often making the ball bounce up for the receiver and putting him under pressure. His touch doesn't seem too good either, but certainly looks like a good ball-winner.

 

[Nick-TopSpursMan]

My only concern with Wieffer is the way he passes with "top spin" so often, often making the ball bounce up for the receiver and putting him under pressure. His touch doesn't seem too good either, but certainly looks like a good ball-winner.

Yeah I hear you.

Honestly I spoke with @Ghost Hardware the other day since he mentioned Onyedika I’m really leaning towards him the most.

He looks like he’s ready to really explode as a player and I don’t think he will cost huge money. Sure he’s not going to be a big name but I think he could come in and really perform well in the way Vic, VdV and Udogie have this season.

 

[Nick-TopSpursMan]

What about Zubimendi that WLB said we were keen on?

I have some concerns about his athleticism and ball recovery ability in the PL.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

Been looking all over for a press-resistant 6 and it's definitely a harder one than at striker/wing. Rodri is the golden goose IMO. Someone who recovers the ball well, can be a CDM when needed, but sets the offensive tone for passing as well.

A name I've come across a few times and like is Angelo Stiller from Stuttgart. They're having a fantastic season, currently in 3rd in the Bundesliga and he's been an unsung hero for them in the midfield. He's 23, has a wand of a left foot, and is great at finding the wingers in their system. Checks in a lot with his back to play and can play out. Averages over 1 tackle, interception, block, clearance, and aerials won per 90.

Weaknesses would be that he doesn't dribble successfully much, but I think that's because he's in the mould of a pure ball playing midfielder.

His Fbref similar players are: Kimmich, Aleix Garcia, Frenkie de Jong, Mac Allister, and Xaver Schlager. If you'd like to take a look:

I put him on a list of of possible players I’d think we would be looking at earlier in this thread. I had intended to profile him but never got round to it. He’s certainly been one of stand out’s for Stuttgart who are having a very good season. Hoeness has done a seriously incredible job there since joining last summer. They are currently 3rd after finishing 16th last season and 15th the year before, on a side note I think he has a bright future if he manages to build on this season.

Stiller is a really exciting player who has been pushing for a spot in the Germany team all season. He is also pretty versatile and has even been deployed at CB this season. I actually think he’s a solid dribbler who is very good at making space for himself, nothing flashy but he is good at taking a few touches to open up a passing lane. In general he has good technical ability across the board which is unsurprising given that he came out of Bayern’s academy.

The reason i put off the writing up about him tho is that I just don’t think he’s a good fit for our system anymore. Originally I was thinking we should look for a more forward thinking DLP to take that role as I thought it would open up more options further up the pitch but over the last month or so my mind has been changed somewhat. Whilst we still need someone with good passing range and technical ability on the ball I also think defensive stability and physicality are just as important if we intend to continue playing such an aggressive high line with two inverted FB's

Stuttgart have used numerous tactics this season, 343, 442, 4231 but prettey much the constant has been the double pivot Stiller is part of. Within that he’s not really expected to be the deep 6 mopping up and he will often move high up the pitch. At times he’s more an 8 than a 6. Atakan Karazor his midfield partner is the player who's primary focus is in defence and if anything is more the classic ball winning DM of the two. It's Karazor's large physical presence and no nonsense passing/movement in the double pivot that allows Stiller to be more creative/forward thinking player even if he does often sit deeper. Karazor is very rarely part of attacking movement unlike his midfield partner and is the player tasked with screening the back line. I really don't know how Stiller would cope being the lone DM in a midfield three as i think the main reason for his rapid rise this season is his excellent balance with Karazor. Also whilst he is hard working and a tenacious tackler he isn’t a physically commanding presences, something that I think we need.

As a player I like him a lot and think he has a very bright future, he’s got great passing range and vision as you point out. For me tho a light weight deep lying playmaker isn’t necessarily the player we need for the DM role, I have the same concerns about Zubimendi and if anything id say Martin would be the more comfortable choice for the lone DM role as he at least currently plays as the deepest in a CM 3.