The Weekend ITK Discussion Thread 11th/12th July 2015

[bceej]

trix: McCarthy is affordable/gettable and ticks a lot of boxes. Don't believe Mirallas will happen even if he is being pushed our way.

The only thing he won't provide is an aerial presence, which is something I think we still need in the middle of the park. That's why I find Mario Suarez so appealing, in addition to his other more widely reported qualities and achievements. Would it be tenable to have both?

Also, wondering when #signastriker is going to come into fashion again? Looks like Charlie Austin and Aleksandar Mitrovic are off our radar for better or for worse, and the most recent touted options are Fernando Llorente, Breel Embolo and Timo Werner (more of a wide forward) - anything concrete in confirmation or dismissal of these targets?

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

There appears to a clamour for a central midfielder, which consider the departure of Capoue, Holtby and probably Stambouli makes sense. We cannot go into the season with a Bentaleb / Mason CM partnership, as we're get raped. Bentaleb is the more promising of the pair, so we need to get a suitable partner for him, whether McCarthy fits this, then fine. if not lets make sure we get the right balance for once.

 

[thekneaf]

There appears to a clamour for a central midfielder, which consider the departure of Capoue, Holtby and probably Stambouli makes sense. We cannot go into the season with a Bentaleb / Mason CM partnership, as we're get raped. Bentaleb is the more promising of the pair, so we need to get a suitable partner for him, whether McCarthy fits this, then fine. if not lets make sure we get the right balance for once.

Alan Pardew, is it really you?

 

[Gedson100]

The amount of players that nail down central midfield spots in the Premier League at the age McCarthy did you can count on one hand. That speaks volumes as to his quality, moreso that he's maintained that role ever since.

Bentaleb is probably the only other one in recent years. Given that McCarthy is just entering his peak years and Bentaleb is years short of them, the long term potential upside to both of them is huge.

I'd take him in a flash.

 

[ilikeost]

Veljkovic. 100% and I disagree as unsurprsingly Poch may have doubts having a really young and inexperienced CM not that it wouldn't work but he would leave himself open to criticism if he did allow it

The guy that only got 3 apps for Charlton and got subbed off in all of them last season? Sorry, don't buy it.

 

[KILLA_SIN]

The guy that only got 3 apps for Charlton and got subbed off in all of them last season? Sorry, don't buy it.

Vjelkovic is well regarded but I think at this this stage it would be good for him to get a PL loan move.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

That's my point we aren't buying an (significant) improvement on our first team. Mason could easily outplay him and he wind up our back up CM. For 10m fine, but 20 is ridiuclous.



Veljkovic. 100% and I disagree as unsurprsingly Poch may have doubts having a really young and inexperienced CM not that it wouldn't work but he would leave himself open to criticism if he did allow it



It really was an average video. I watched his compilation video too, from his good season and it was alright. Now for a DM there are better videos about. Also before someone says I don't appreciate the small simple things, I was a abig advocate of Bentaleb when he first came in and people said he does nothing. Even Bentaleb's vid from his debut season looks more impressive, nevermind this one. Even Mason's looks better. He did nothing in it, that I would not expect Veljkovic to be able to do, who is composd, a very good passer and excellent defensivley. He's not a lung buster but I thought we want someone to sit.

But as a above Poch won't take that risk. I just hope we don't end up paying over 15m for him.

You say Veljkovic is 100% ready but I'm sure Pochettino and the coaches, the academy staff and our analysts know far more about whether this is the case or not. I think he's good enough as a back-up DM, but certainly not as a starting DM.

The bit about comparing videos of players is a bit ridiculous IMO. Means nothing.

 

[IGSpur]

The guy that only got 3 apps for Charlton and got subbed off in all of them last season? Sorry, don't buy it.

He didn't get subbed off as he was performing badly, most likely as they constantly wanted to refresh their CM towards the end of the game. A lot of teams have standard subs they make. He also dislocated his shoulder hence only playing 3 matches.

I'm basing my opinion of Veljkovic from what I have seen of him from the last 3 years, and looking at what skills he has an whether he would be able to use them in the PL, and for it is a definitive yes.

If Sherwood was still here he would have a had a lot more appearances and I bet would have played well leaving the McCarthy talk redundant. Sadly not everyone is like Sherwood in that respect. I bet if I had said Bentaleb was better than McCarthy before we played him you would have said 'the kid who has never played a league game in his life?, Sorry don't buy it'

 

[atoubasrightfoot]

@Muzziozcan has tweeted that MS has had advanced transfer talks and is now having to decide between A or B. I like to think that's between us and Utd so maybe the interest in McCarthy is back up for this i.e if MS goes to Utd we will be straight in for McCarthy.

 

[DCSPUR]

The guy that only got 3 apps for Charlton and got subbed off in all of them last season? Sorry, don't buy it.

frankly you dont know much about some of our young stars

 

[IGSpur]

You say Veljkovic is 100% ready but I'm sure Pochettino and the coaches, the academy staff and our analysts know far more about whether this is the case or not. I think he's good enough as a back-up DM, but certainly not as a starting DM.

The bit about comparing videos of players is a bit ridiculous IMO. Means nothing.

Fair about the videos, my point was I went to watch them as they usually make someone look good and hope I can see something but I didn't see him do anything MV wouldn't have been able to do.

And regarding the first point, firstly that is not 100% true I've alluded to my reasoning behind that before but as I said earlier, even if they did think MV was ready, and he didn't start well the same way McCarthy might not start well, just because he took the risk I am sure people would get onto him and Veljkovic a lot more than they would McCarthy. Secondly my point was based off the fact that I do not think McCarthy would be a starting CM for us and considering we also still have Carroll there is no guarantee McCarthy won't end up being a squad player, which is what MV should be for, and not a 20m player.

He can handle the quality and movement of Munain, Morata, Deulofeu and Isco and play in the Championship but not the PL, don't get it tbh

FWIW I have read Everton's forums and they seem to love him and think he is worth £35m or something so fair dos. He will provide good competition to the squad but 20m should be an improvement on first team for me

 

[pompower]

That's my point we aren't buying an (significant) improvement on our first team. Mason could easily outplay him and he wind up our back up CM. For 10m fine, but 20 is ridiuclous.

I agree that £20m is too much, but then I don't think we're going to spend £20m on him. I think it'll be more in the £15m range, possibly lower, considering he was bought for £13m but is reportedly on very low wages and wants to leave. In saying that, for £15m we wouldn't get Kramer either. Not a prayer, imo. And although Kramer is slightly better going forward, he and McCarthy do turn up similar statistics. I would prefer Kramer, mind, but I don't think we'll be paying what Leverkusen would want nor do I think he wants to come.

 

[IGSpur]

@Muzziozcan has tweeted that MS has had advanced transfer talks and is now having to decide between A or B. I like to think that's between us and Utd so maybe the interest in McCarthy is back up for this i.e if MS goes to Utd we will be straight in for McCarthy.

I don't think you can post twitter info in here mate

 

[ryantegan]

McCarthy would flourish under Pochetino

I'd be happy if its him here before the season kicks off

 

[Mr Pink]

@Muzziozcan has tweeted that MS has had advanced transfer talks and is now having to decide between A or B. I like to think that's between us and Utd so maybe the interest in McCarthy is back up for this i.e if MS goes to Utd we will be straight in for McCarthy.

That would be the ideal situation but you better delete that.

 

[ilikeost]

frankly you dont know much about some of our young stars

I probably know as much as you do, i.e. not much. I trust the professionals and he was loaned out from the squad last season to the championship and only managed to get 3 apps. I know he is well regarded but I find it very hard to belive that he is "100% ready" for the premier leauge.

 

[whitechina]

McCarthy would flourish under Pochetino

I'd be happy if its him here before the season kicks off

Couldn't agree more.
Poch n co have a history or improving midfielders and McCarthy is already good but I feel he would excel for us if he comes here.

 

[KILLA_SIN]

Fair about the videos, my point was I went to watch them as they usually make someone look good and hope I can see something but I didn't see him do anything MV wouldn't have been able to do.

And regarding the first point, firstly that is not 100% true I've alluded to my reasoning behind that before but as I said earlier, even if they did think MV was ready, and he didn't start well the same way McCarthy might not start well, just because he took the risk I am sure people would get onto him and Veljkovic a lot more than they would McCarthy. Secondly my point was based off the fact that I do not think McCarthy would be a starting CM for us and considering we also still have Carroll there is no guarantee McCarthy won't end up being a squad player, which is what MV should be for, and not a 20m player.

He can handle the quality and movement of Munain, Morata, Deulofeu and Isco and play in the Championship but not the PL, don't get it tbh

FWIW I have read Everton's forums and they seem to love him and think he is worth £35m or something so fair dos. He will provide good competition to the squad but 20m should be an improvement on first team for me

There is big pretty gap between playing some very good players in an U21 tourny and playing regularly in one of the biggest leagues in the world. He lacks the experience at this level to really be involved week in week out and he needs to go on loan for a season a PL club at the very least. And I have read before that MV natural position is CB rather than CM and just to add we have sold Paulinho, Holtby, Capoue and Stambouli we have Bentaleb and Mason left and between them they have three season of PL experience. We need a player like McCarthy regardless if MV is ready or not.

 

[taidgh]

If Poch/recruitment team have identified that we need a disciplined player who is more functional than expansive then they have completely missed what we have already and sitting in our development group.

like? whom would you push up to the PL with no previous experience and be happy with over the course of the season?

 

[ilikeost]

If Sherwood was still here he would have a had a lot more appearances and I bet would have played well leaving the McCarthy talk redundant. Sadly not everyone is like Sherwood in that respect. I bet if I had said Bentaleb was better than McCarthy before we played him you would have said 'the kid who has never played a league game in his life?, Sorry don't buy it'

This is not the place for this discussion so I'm going to stop it now.