top four may (soon) not be enough for CL

[Blake Griffin]

thanks to those pesky uefa coefficients. you know, those things we don't needn't worry about because the barclays premier league is the best league in the world™.

well, unfortunately for us, england's 4th cl place will soon come under serious threat thanks to the poor performances of english clubs in europe recently. it's kind of ironic when you think about it, spurs fans wanting us to 'throw' the europa league(which now offers a passage into the cl) in order to give ourselves a better chance of qualifying for the cl ... but in doing so we're contributing to england's downfall in the coefficient rankings which in turn puts the league at risk of losing its 4th champions league place.

so here it is in numbers, this is what the uefa coefficient ranking will look like once the season is over/next season begins:

#     country   11/12      12/13      13/14      14/15      15/16     ranking    
1     Spain     20.857     17.714     23.000     18.357     0.000     79.928    
2     Germany   15.250     17.928     14.714     15.571     0.000     63.463    
3     England   15.250     16.428     16.785     13.571     0.000     62.034    
4     Italy     11.357     14.416     14.166     18.166     0.000     58.105+

the total ranking figures are those that matter most. now bear in mind that serie a still has juventus in the cl semis as well as fiorentina and napoli in the europa league semis, they're going to close the gap even further, england have no teams left so obviously can't improve on their current coefficient score. this means that the epl still has its four cl places this season and next season, but beyond that are in serious doubt. the coefficients take the previous four seasons as well as the current season into account, this means that with each passing year, the season from five years ago is wiped. in the coming years england will lose a lot of points to italy just because of the strong seasons they're losing(11/12, 12/13, 13/14) so unless they buck up their ideas and start performing well in europe again then it could well mean that only top 3 will suffice if we want champions league football. germany are also under threat but fortunately for them they have bayern carrying them each season.

my suggestion would be to try to win the europa league, it gets us a trophy and it gets us cl. win win?

 

[sunnydelight786]

Seeing none of the English clubs give a toss about the EL when they are in it, hence not helping the coefficient, it would be rather ironic that the clubs who strive to finish only 4th will miss out on it eventually due to that!!!

 

[ButchCassidy]

I don't expect to be CL regulars anytime soon, certainly not before the new stadium is done and our wage bill expands. Personally not too fussed, I'll take some perverse pleasure in watching Arsenal/United/Liverpool try to deal with missing out on CL football that much more often. If we just focus on improving our football every year and being competitive on all fronts I'll be happy, for now.

 

[danielneeds]

You just know that the year the PL loses the fourth spot we'd be absolutely nailed on to finish fourth. I'd put my house on it.

 

[Wrenchy]

Top four may soon not be enough

Soon? Try three years ago matey.

 

[TEESSIDE1]

I wouldn't worry about it as Germany will fall out of the top 3 before we do. Besides Bayern, everyone else is distinctly average. Wolfsburg, and Monchengladbach are decent teams but no better than a 6th/7th place premiership side, Schalke and Leverkusen have been consistently poor in the champions league and Dortmund have imploded this season.

 

[ERO]

I wouldn't worry about it as Germany will fall out of the top 3 before we do. Besides Bayern, everyone else is distinctly average. Wolfsburg, and Monchengladbach are decent teams but no better than a 6th/7th place premiership side, Schalke and Leverkusen have been consistently poor in the champions league and Dortmund have imploded this season.

I wouldn't worry about it either, but Germany is beating England on points this year...

 

[ERO]

England has rounded up more coefficient points than Italy every season for eight consecutive seasons. This season isn't likely to set a new trend.

 

[rabbikeane]

Italian clubs are doing better in Europa League than us,
that was the same tournament Germany performed in to overtake Italy.
If we fall victim to this then we've only got ourselves to blame with our poor effort in EL

 

[Spurger King]

I really don't see this as something that should concern us. It will probably bother fans of Arsenal, Liverpool, and United, but aren't we constantly being told that 5th and 6th is as good as we can achieve with our current set-up?

A reduction in CL places would affect clubs with ambition. That's not us.

 

[chinaman]

It's a farce anyway calling it Champions' Cup where the majority of the participating teams are not national champs.

 

[beats1]

thanks to those pesky uefa coefficients. you know, those things we don't needn't worry about because the barclays premier league is the best league in the world™.

well, unfortunately for us, england's 4th cl place will soon come under serious threat thanks to the poor performances of english clubs in europe recently. it's kind of ironic when you think about it, spurs fans wanting us to 'throw' the europa league(which now offers a passage into the cl) in order to give ourselves a better chance of qualifying for the cl ... but in doing so we're contributing to england's downfall in the coefficient rankings which in turn puts the league at risk of losing its 4th champions league place.

so here it is in numbers, this is what the uefa coefficient ranking will look like once the season is over/next season begins:

#     country   11/12      12/13      13/14      14/15      15/16     ranking   
1     Spain     20.857     17.714     23.000     18.357     0.000     79.928   
2     Germany   15.250     17.928     14.714     15.571     0.000     63.463   
3     England   15.250     16.428     16.785     13.571     0.000     62.034   
4     Italy     11.357     14.416     14.166     18.166     0.000     58.105+

the total ranking figures are those that matter most. now bear in mind that serie a still has juventus in the cl semis as well as fiorentina and napoli in the europa league semis, they're going to close the gap even further, england have no teams left so obviously can't improve on their current coefficient score. this means that the epl still has its four cl places this season and next season, but beyond that are in serious doubt. the coefficients take the previous four seasons as well as the current season into account, this means that with each passing year, the season from five years ago is wiped. in the coming years england will lose a lot of points to italy just because of the strong seasons they're losing(11/12, 12/13, 13/14) so unless they buck up their ideas and start performing well in europe again then it could well mean that only top 3 will suffice if we want champions league football. germany are also under threat but fortunately for them they have bayern carrying them each season.

my suggestion would be to try to win the europa league, it gets us a trophy and it gets us cl. win win?

We have had one bad year but we aren't at risk just yet. The coefficient you posted is the one for 2016/17. Another 2 years.

Also one of the reason why european teams are doing so well is because of the PL.

If actually look at when the PL was at its strongest in Europe it was when the Top 4 didn't really have a challenger for their spots.

They had a sustainable model in which their 4 teams would be guaranteed to finish in the top 4 spots and take in the extra money that would help them keep them above the rest.

It also meant that if they werent in the title race they could concentrate on their CL performance. Now that us and Man city have come along the fight to get the money from the CL is more important than doing well in Europe and winning a trophy.

Another factor is arrogance, our teams are arrogant thinking that they are better than those european teams and will walk it. However this also ties in with the next factor.

Money! Europe was/is broke! The league money in france has been going down for tv money for example. At one point the whole of spain was broke. For example one club who has done well because of the money of being in the CL. Atletico Madrid were in £500m of debt 4 years ago, however they have been focusing on doing well in europe and initially put that over them trying to do well in the league.

Atletico when playing in Europe during that time were playing for their futures, the players hadn't been paid yet they knew they could get a big move(which they did) and that this could help them stay alive(which it did, if Atletico went to administration, they would be automatically relegated).

Another incentive is, if a player does well against a European club he may get a move to there and get the HUGE wages that come with it.

We arent in trouble since this was a very bad year for english football for a number of factors:
Hull were given a European spot which they wasted losing not even a top Belgian side.
Liverpool and us were more interested in the league and domestic competitions(we didn't put out a first team 3 days before a cup final and Liverpool thought they could get CL)
Man City have a poor coefficient
Chelsea and Arsenal both fucked up against a lesser French team, (both good sides but the arsenal team thats nearly unbeaten since that loss is better than the one against Monaco and Chelsea, lol, they should of gone through but fucked up big time)
Everton did well considering their current league performance

Ironically the rule brought in to help city, may actually hurt them even more as league winners are now going to be automatically drawn in to the first pot, which means 2nd pot teams are likely drop down to the 3rd pot LOL, so Man City who would of been in the 2nd pot will be in the third pot because of the rule they called out for LOL

 

[tototoner]

only Arsenal think that finishing 4th is a trophy

 

[eddiev14]

The Top Four is such a miserable target. The obsession with it is everything that is wrong with modern football and I care less and less about achieving if each year.

It's held up as some holy grail for attracting talent and pushing the club on to the next level but the reality is that, unless we did it regularly for a number of years, the impact is not going to be that significant.

I remember us listing all the stars we were going to sign in summer 2010 after finishing 4th, only to sign the likes of Gallas on a free, a relatively unknown Sandro from Brazil and then benefitting from a last minute stroke of luck that saw VDV desperately needing a new club and Madrid wanting rid.

Regarding 'pushing on', our match day revenues didn't allow us to push the boat out on wages for the 1-2 'special' players we needed (namely a top level striker), so we couldn't do it. Being in the CL didn't make a blind bit of difference.

That will be the case until we start selling out our shiny new stadium. Sure a chunk of CL cash one or two years would help but ultimately it's a drop in the ocean unless we do it consistently like the Scum down the road.

What we are doing right now is right and we need to stop obsessing about the top four.

Pochettino is taking the time he needs to build an identity that has been missing for a long time now. Once he has shaped the squad this summer he will (if he is backed properly) have great group of young, hungry talent who identify with our club and aren't just yet another mercenary out for their next pay day.

Having that, for me, is way more important than finishing fourth because of two reasons:

1. It will contribute greatly to the connection with the team and the fans being restored, and the whole atmosphere and match day enjoyment improving - we sorely need that

2. Maybe we can create a team with spirit and talented players who fight for each other, not just a bunch of individuals thrown together, which will in turn actually allow us to aim higher than only 4th place.

In short, that article says losing the CL spot for fourth place is a worry - I say it can be a good thing.

You never know, maybe we (and the other teams in that 'scrap') would then actually focus on trying to win something for a change!

 

[Spurger King]

The Top Four is such a miserable target. The obsession with it is everything that is wrong with modern football and I care less and less about achieving if each year.

It's held up as some holy grail for attracting talent and pushing the club on to the next level but the reality is that, unless we did it regularly for a number of years, the impact is not going to be that significant.

I remember us listing all the stars we were going to sign in summer 2010 after finishing 4th, only to sign the likes of Gallas on a free, a relatively unknown Sandro from Brazil and then benefitting from a last minute stroke of luck that saw VDV desperately needing a new club and Madrid wanting rid.

Regarding 'pushing on', our match day revenues didn't allow us to push the boat out on wages for the 1-2 'special' players we needed (namely a top level striker), so we couldn't do it. Being in the CL didn't make a blind bit of difference.

That will be the case until we start selling out our shiny new stadium. Sure a chunk of CL cash one or two years would help but ultimately it's a drop in the ocean unless we do it consistently like the Scum down the road.

What we are doing right now is right and we need to stop obsessing about the top four.

Pochettino is taking the time he needs to build an identity that has been missing for a long time now. Once he has shaped the squad this summer he will (if he is backed properly) have great group of young, hungry talent who identify with our club and aren't just yet another mercenary out for their next pay day.

Having that, for me, is way more important than finishing fourth because of two reasons:

1. It will contribute greatly to the connection with the team and the fans being restored, and the whole atmosphere and match day enjoyment improving - we sorely need that

2. Maybe we can create a team with spirit and talented players who fight for each other, not just a bunch of individuals thrown together, which will in turn actually allow us to aim higher than only 4th place.

In short, that article says losing the CL spot for fourth place is a worry - I say it can be a good thing.

You never know, maybe we (and the other teams in that 'scrap') would then actually focus on trying to win something for a change!

I think it's pretty simple really. Tread water until the new stadium is built, then hope that ENIC sell the club to someone who can offer wages high enough for us to compete with the big boys. Otherwise we're just a profitable business for a few people, whilst making up the numbers...and maybe winning a trophy once every ten years.

Certainly better than most teams, but settling for second best makes a mockery of the quote "the game is about glory".

 

[eddiev14]

I think it's pretty simple really. Tread water until the new stadium is built, then hope that ENIC sell the club to someone who can offer wages high enough for us to compete with the big boys. Otherwise we're just a profitable business for a few people, whilst making up the numbers...and maybe winning a trophy once every ten years.

Certainly better than most teams, but settling for second best makes a mockery of the quote "the game is about glory".

We get so lost in all that shit these days though mate. It doesn't need to be so depressing!

I just want to watch us play (hopefully some nice stuff), meet up and have a few beers with mates, sing some songs and generally just enjoy the experience of supporting such a great club.

If anything my most pressing issue is that the club works with the fans to find ways to improve the atmosphere and experience for people who want to sing.

For me, going to a few 1882 games organised by @Flav and the FC really helped me think differently about evaluate what I actually want from supporting Spurs.

Let's just say 4th place is pretty low on my list!

 

[Spurger King]

We get so lost in all that shit these days though mate. It doesn't need to be so depressing!

I just want to watch us play (hopefully some nice stuff), meet up and have a few beers with mates, sing some songs and generally just enjoy the experience of supporting such a great club.

If anything my most pressing issue is that the club works with the fans to find ways to improve the atmosphere and experience for people who want to sing.

For me, going to a few 1882 games organised by @Flav and the FC really helped me think differently about evaluate what I actually want from supporting Spurs.

Let's just say 4th place is pretty low on my list!

I said in a post a few days ago that I honestly enjoyed supporting Spurs more in the '90s. I think a big part of the problem these days is who we're making up the numbers in relation to. Chelsea and Arsenal. For me it's fucking gut-wrenching seeing us getting 'bested' every season by those twats. It's a big part of why I'm losing interest in football in general. We've become a boring player-exchange business that can't compete with our two biggest rivals year after year. Yes we beat both of them at the Lane this season (which was obviously great) but it's nowhere near enough.

The game is purely about money these days - much more than it has ever been - and it just doesn't mean all that much to me these days. If I lived in London I'd be joining up with the 1882 lot to go and support our youth team as there's still a faint glimmer of what this club used to mean. I care less and less about a first team that is just there to act as cannon fodder for rich clubs. I don't care...the players don't care...the owners don't care....it's just all so fucking pointless. An occasional Wembley outing doesn't change that.

 

[yankspurs]

I really don't see this as something that should concern us. It will probably bother fans of Arsenal, Liverpool, and United, but aren't we constantly being told that 5th and 6th is as good as we can achieve with our current set-up?

A reduction in CL places would affect clubs with ambition. That's not us.

We are always told that by other fans. Not Levy

Daniel has ambition in his words. Any tangible ambition, though? No.

 

[Spurger King]

We are always told that by other fans. Not Levy

Daniel has ambition in his words. Any tangible ambition, though? No.

Oh I'm sure Levy is doing his best, it's just that his best isn't good enough.

If we don't win a trophy in the next four years this will officially be the least successful period the club has experienced since the war-torn 1940s. Our average league finishes have been higher, and I'm sure we're very profitable, but anyone who can't deliver trophies at least once a decade for this club is a massive failure in my book.

 

[shelfmonkey]

Oh I'm sure Levy is doing his best, it's just that his best isn't good enough.

If we don't win a trophy in the next four years this will officially be the least successful period the club has experienced since the war-torn 1940s. Our average league finishes have been higher, and I'm sure we're very profitable, but anyone who can't deliver trophies at least once a decade for this club is a massive failure in my book.

In Danny boy's eyes he's doing a great job, the finances are improving year on year and for us fans that is the problem, we don't really give a shit about finances, we want silverware, there's no glory in a fat bank balance.