Tottenham as a second team !

[Davo99]

Celtic are my second club, coming from an Irish family.

My least hated Premier League clubs are West Brom and Swansea.

 

[bigfrooj]

You have to remember football was not so readily available on tv and of course there was no internet so if you really loved football the only way to see it was live - so you would go wherever it was being played. Me and my son sometimes go over to Leyton Orient for a fix these days when a little starved

 

[Flashspur]

My Grandad was all Spurs and insisted on taking me to my first game as a five year old. He certainly knew what he was doing because I have been hooked ever since. I think he was making sure at least someone in the family was Spurs because his sons ended up Chelsa, Hammers and QPR with the exception of one of my uncles who also follwed Spurs. My Dad was the Chelsea one. I think he just did it to rile my Grandad. They never had a good relationship. My Dad used to watch matches at Highbury and the Boleyn as well. I could never do that. I am Spurs through and through. I had a soft spot for AC Milan in the late 60's and 70's when they had Rivera and Prati in the team and I love Barca's play as a neutral but I would hardly call them second teams.

 

[Shea]

HAHA, no not at all, that was a good read, cheers for that. Don't worry, I 'cracked the code' and saw your point which is completely valid; I am indeed looking at it from a modern set of eyes, 12,000 miles away, although, if I did live in England, I don't think my perspective would be any different. I'm sure there are English people here who are just as surprised as I am, like the thread starter for example. I just would've guessed that rivalries were just as strong back then as they are today. I'm wondering if some people back then didn't actually have a team that they supported and also, for those who did have a team, whether it was just as common for some of them to have another team they supported as it was for those who just merely attended another teams games, without any real passionate support. As I said, that was a good informative read in a good old bit of English footballing history; you should be a football historian, that is if you're not already

I'm not nearly knowledgeable enough about the game to be a historian trust me

I'm simply im my early thirties now and have family roots from working class London in those era's, so I am old enough to remember what my older family members used to talk to me about in footballing terms when I was a kid and to varying extents they lived in the era this discussion refers to

My mums family are all from Hoxton - which is/was mainly an Arsenal catchment area but there was a near equal mix of Spurs fans at the time. Even when I was a kid that area was either Spurs or Arsenal - people supported their local team/s

My grandad was Spurs through and through - he actually hated Arsenal but he certainly seemed a rarity compared to the other people of his generation who would prefer London teams to the northern teams for example

The generation above him - I remember my mum's granddad (my Great Granddad John) who was just a typical working class man. He went to work, he went to the pub, did a bit of boxing and went to watch the football. I know he used to go to both Highbury and White Hart Lane - I know all his kids were Gooners but he didn't seem to have a particular affinity just liked to watch the football on a Saturday afternoon

Even when I was young and we used to have a lot of football banter between myself as a Yid and my mums uncle and his kids the Gooners - it was never venomous, it was always light hearted and funny. While I saw Arsenal as the enemy I never really hated them, I remember being happy that they beat Liverpool at Anfield to win the league because I preferred them to Liverpool and Man U

I grew up in West London, the fans I hated most were Chelsea, Man U and Liverpool - they were the more annoying fans (not least the Arsenal and Liverpool fans who to me were just glory hunters with no family or geographical link to the club and just jumped on the bandwagon of the most successful teams)

My Dad's family are from Ireland, but moved here when my dad was 5 or 6. My granddad was a season ticket holder at Rangers - he didn't even like football that much, he was a Rugby man and a Boxing man. But Saturday afternoon working class men went to watch the football and get on the beers, he would go to Fulham or Chelsea when QPR were playing away.

As I said in a previous post in this thread - I believe the generation of people like Bruce Foresyth were more community minded. Proud Londoners who when teams from London played teams from outside London united in support against the Northerners

My Dad's generation watched football in the 70's - by this time it was more of an intense rivalry between London clubs and this was no longer the case....but still when English teams competed in Europe the national pride overwhelmed the internal rivalries and the ENglish supporters united in support for the English teams taking on the Europeans

My generation and the younger generations have lost that too - our rivalries with other London clubs and over English clubs are now stronger and trump any notion of nationalism (for the most part) when English teams play in Europe and we more often than not want to see the European teams batter the English ones because we hate the likes of Arsenal and Chelsea so much we don't care that they're English clubs

It's all a matter of identity and representation - perhaps a lot of it has been lost via the influx of non English talent playing for these sides, perhaps its a reflection of the changing society eroding the sense of pride and strength of community. People now days are so much more upwardly mobile, we relocate - the communities are now a very diverse and long gone are the days of people living within a 4 street catchment area for 5-6 generations (therefore the lack of identity and representation with a small area is gone) and satellite tv and the internet has given us all access to watch teams from other countries and develop affinities with them

Football is no longer a working class game and indeed the working classes are no longer what they once were anyway - emergence of the underclass and affluent working class added to by the change in demographic of London and England anyway

I will try to explain the notion of supporting both Arsenal and Spurs in them days in a context I think you will be able to relate to and understand -

I am sure as an Aussie you support a local Rugby Union team (or League, Aussie Rules, Cricket whatever)
Equally I am sure there are rivalries between teams from different parts of Australia
I am sure however that while you may hate teams from rival areas you unit in support when they play international rugby representing you in a Wallaby shirt against the ALL BLACKs for example

So even though you and your friend at school may have supported different Australian rugby teams and had that intense rival banter - you each share a common support for the Australian national team when they play other countries since they represent the pair of you

It's the same for that generation - but with league football

They didn't have live games on tv, and they didn't travel or move. Working class men grew up, worked in and spent their whole life in a small catchment area of London (World wars and day trips to Brighton beach aside)

This meant that London teams represented them in the same way the Australia national team represents you and trumps internal local rivalries

So they would happily go watch and cheer on whichever London team was playing against the Northerners (plus as I said like my Irish Granddad - it was just the thing to do for working class men, have a few beers and watch the football with your mates on a saturday afternoon)

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Spurs are actually my 4th club.

As an American, I have to say- I love a lot of English teams! And it's fun because there are so many to choose from! But since I can't pick 'em all, I've gone with 4 mainstays (in the Prem, that is).

My list:

1) Arsenal
2) Chelsea
3) West Ham

Distant 4th: Tottenham

My favorite player is Jack Wilshire! I love him! He, imvho, truly embodies the spirit of the game with his never-say-die attitude and his grit and determination. He has helped us immeasurably and I once told him so, shouting (from the stands) the last time my beloved boys in red and white came on a tour of the US! It was so amazing- I got a special kit made up for the occasion with his name on the back and "No. 1 fan" on either side of it! I even wore the same size shorts that he wears- despite the fact that I'm quite a bit taller! They were small on me but I didn't mind- and I think he appreciated it because he smiled at me when he came out of the tunnel (something I'll never forget)! My man Jack is something else; I have a life-size poster of him in my room, surrounded by all my Gooner gear (including a replica trophy from our undefeated season a decade ago- which looks just like the real thing! This being a Tottenham board you might not know this but back then they called us "The Invincibles!" What memories!). Man oh man you should've seen me when we won the league at White Hart Lane (your stadium I believe)-- holy smokes- talk about good times! In fact as I'm typing this I'm wearing an Arsenal shirt with "Henry" on the back (although I feel like a traitor to Jack lol)! My wife thinks I should get rid of some of my memorabilia- she says "you're 47, yet you act like an overgrown child," but we all know how enticing this stuff can be! And there's no way in heaven I would willingly part with any of my Arsenal collection. I consider myself part of the team in a way, and I bet if the players could meet me they would feel the same! Oh well, maybe someday!

As for Chelsea: John Terry is- and always will be- my favorite defender, and I love the way Chelsea play (and their fans are great as well!). Roman really keeps us humming along- and now with Jose back at the helm the sky's the limit! Tbh it's hard picking between my blues and my reds so I basically don't; I wish for nothing but the best whenever I see them play, and when they face each other (which I believe you guys call a "derby"- except that unlike our Kentucky derby you "chaps" say "darby"- man you guys are out of control! But I digress...) I root for a great game! This may sound crazy but I have a jersey (sorry there "chaps"- I mean to say "shirt!" You Brits and your confusing terms lol!) that is half Arsenal and half Chelsea, split down the middle, which I wear when appropriate (and sometimes even when not!). This helps me to feel like a true supporter- and not one favoring one team over the other (which would hardly be fair since I adore them both!). Indeed, I love Chelsea so much I only buy Samsung products (haha- I just wish Emirates Airlines flew between cities in America!).

As for West Ham- well, though I don't really have much of an affinity for their current players, I do feel a kinship with both the supporters and the owners. Also, since they play in a kind of red and blue then it's almost as if they're a family member uniting my other two top sides- or at least thats the way I prefer to look at it! West Ham are like my underdog team- they're never really that good on the field (oh sorry- there I go again: "pitch") but they seem really cool and fun and feisty- good "blokes" as you guys might say...just one question: is there actual ham there (like ham you can eat- the pink stuff) or is it just a coincidence that ham is in the name? I'm wondering because I really like ham and maybe it's good there and if I make it out to a game (sorry: match) I'll buy some and eat it with my fellow hammies! We'll "ham" it up together!

As for Spurs, they're pretty decent, and I try and cheer them on when I can (at least as long as their winning doesn't interfere with any of my above true core teams). I don't know much about them but I do know that if I want to really mess with people's minds here in the States I can say "I'm watching Spurs"; they'll think I'm referring to the basketball team from San Antonio but you and I know better! Haha- joke's on them!

Anyway- wow- English soccer is freakin' awesome! So many cool squads! Cool names! Cool colors! I love it!!!

Oh hey btw- I almost forgot to ask: what do you "blokes" think of my list? Is it close to yours?

While we have our differences, I have to say this is class.

 

[SpursManChris]

I am sure as an Aussie you support a local Rugby Union team (or League, Aussie Rules, Cricket whatever)
Equally I am sure there are rivalries between teams from different parts of Australia
I am sure however that while you may hate teams from rival areas you unit in support when they play international rugby representing you in a Wallaby shirt against the ALL BLACKs for example

But isn't that just the Aussie equivalent of English fans uniting when England play? Even when rival players are in the team.

 

[SpursManChris]

My Grandad was all Spurs and insisted on taking me to my first game as a five year old. He certainly knew what he was doing because I have been hooked ever since. I think he was making sure at least someone in the family was Spurs because his sons ended up Chelsa, Hammers and QPR.

Sounds like he should have done with them what he did with you.

 

[Shea]

But isn't that just the Aussie equivalent of English fans uniting when England play? Even when rival players are in the team.

Yes

But what I am saying is - in them days the same logic applied to a smaller demographic

Namely Londoners and the outside London areas of the UK - because people were far less upwardly mobile and generations lived and died within a stones throw of one another therefore London as a City was more intrinsically linked to their identity above and beyond local divides and rivalries

I tried to illustrate how that changed generation to generation (My dad's generation having mostly lost the support of other London teams against non London teams but still very much uniting in support of English teams in Europe where my generation lost that support of rival English teams against the Europeans but still have the support for the national team regardless of local rivalries)

I only used Australia as the example because that's where you're from

 

[SpursManChris]

i

Yes

But what I am saying is - in them days the same logic applied to a smaller demographic

Namely Londoners and the outside London areas of the UK - because people were far less upwardly mobile and generations lived and died within a stones throw of one another therefore London as a City was more intrinsically linked to their identity above and beyond local divides and rivalries

I tried to illustrate how that changed generation to generation (My dad's generation having mostly lost the support of other London teams against non London teams but still very much uniting in support of English teams in Europe where my generation lost that support of rival English teams against the Europeans but still have the support for the national team regardless of local rivalries)

I only used Australia as the example because that's where you're from

of course, it would all change if we saw someone like Southampton in Europe. Everyone would be behind them. It seems when it comes to City, utd, Chelsea, scum and Liverpool, to the neutral, they are very easy clubs to hate and so neutral English fans want to see them beat by the continental Europeans. Not the same with a team like Southampton, or maybe even us, except for scum fans of course. We're hardly a hated club to the neutral are we? Can you remember the reception we got when we were in the CL?

 

[Shea]

i
of course, it would all change if we saw someone like Southampton in Europe. Everyone would be behind them. It seems when it comes to City, utd, Chelsea, scum and Liverpool, to the neutral, they are very easy clubs to hate and so neutral English fans want to see them beat by the continental Europeans. Not the same with a team like Southampton, or maybe even us, except for scum fans of course. We're hardly a hated club to the neutral are we? Can you remember the reception we got when we were in the CL?

It varies person to person - there are still some who support every English club in Europe because they represent England while others support the English teams they do not consider rivals (and some who either don't care or actively want all English teams to fail because they hate them all - only wanting a certain amount of English success in Europe for our coefficient)

What I am saying is it's changed from being universal support for any English club flying the flag in Europe during my dads era - which had already changed from supporting any London team taking on the northerners in my Granddads or more so my Great Granddads era (for the various reasons I suggested potentially)

I believe the bulk of the league were cheering us on in Europe during our campaign - although I remember all the Chelsea, Arsenal and West Ham fans laughing their arses off when Real beat us 4-0

 

[SpursManChris]

others support the English teams they do not consider rivals (and some who either don't care or actively want all English teams to fail because they hate them all - only wanting a certain amount of English success in Europe for our coefficient)

You mean to make the draws easier for teams in the CL and Europa and England in Euro? I'd say the average fan wouldn't have that level of intelligence to think of the coefficient rankings and their effects.

 

[Dinghy]

Yes

But what I am saying is - in them days the same logic applied to a smaller demographic

Namely Londoners and the outside London areas of the UK - because people were far less upwardly mobile and generations lived and died within a stones throw of one another therefore London as a City was more intrinsically linked to their identity above and beyond local divides and rivalries

I tried to illustrate how that changed generation to generation (My dad's generation having mostly lost the support of other London teams against non London teams but still very much uniting in support of English teams in Europe where my generation lost that support of rival English teams against the Europeans but still have the support for the national team regardless of local rivalries)

I only used Australia as the example because that's where you're from

I think that the change to ticket only (and expensive tickets at that) has also changed things substantially. It used to be that you would get up on a Saturday, see that there was nothing else happening and you knew that your mate was going to the Boleyn (for example) so you could jump a train and have a day out for next to nothing - a game of football, a program, couple of pints and 10 fags for less than a fiver...

Now if you want to go to a game you have to plan weeks in advance and budget accordingly for it... A ticket for a PL game in London can easily cost you £100+ including all extras which is a large chunk out of the weekly disposable to watch a game of football between two sides that you aren't particularly interested in.

 

[SpursManChris]

Yes

But what I am saying is - in them days the same logic applied to a smaller demographic

Namely Londoners and the outside London areas of the UK - because people were far less upwardly mobile and generations lived and died within a stones throw of one another therefore London as a City was more intrinsically linked to their identity above and beyond local divides and rivalries

I tried to illustrate how that changed generation to generation (My dad's generation having mostly lost the support of other London teams against non London teams but still very much uniting in support of English teams in Europe where my generation lost that support of rival English teams against the Europeans but still have the support for the national team regardless of local rivalries)

I only used Australia as the example because that's where you're from

I think this highlights the contrast between the two. Not sure why this guy is SO anti any other English team @ 1:31; and the way he articulates himself, I'm willing to bet he's not intelligent enough for his reasoning to be the coefficient rankings!

 

[424style]

Really can't believe I've just heard this but chap on talksport was talking about spurs bring his second team. His favourite team is, and you won't believe it , Arsenal. I kid you not absolutely nuts. Can this really be possible.

He must be mentally retarded in some way that scientists and doctors havent discovered yet.