Gassin's finest
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Always thought it was Teddy in that Hoddle team.
Tottenham former club captains
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rez9000
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Didn't know Danny was captain twice - very interesting.
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C0YS
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Yeah I didn't know either. Basically what happened was he was signed by Arthur Rowe who was big (some would say the inventor) on push and run (essentially football based on the exchange of quick short passes) but Rowe became ill shortly after his signing, it's not clear when he was given captaincy, and if Rowe's replacement Anderson did so, or Rowe himself did when unwell. But Rowe signed him to be his future captain as Alf Ramsey was coming to the end of his career.
Anderson and Blanchflower really didn't get on, and Anderson played a more direct style of play than what Blanchflower had signed up for. Blanchflower, also, wasn't exactly the type of player to keep quiet. He actively questioned Anderson's tactics and suggested if we were going to kick the ball up long then he should do it himself. He lost his captaincy.
Furthermore, when researching Tottenham captains I found that even when Nicholson took charge in 1958, Nicholson wasn't convinced by Blanchflower. He'd dropped him entirely for a few games and Blanchflower started talking publically to the press about wanting to leave, it makes sense the season before he was fantastic, winning footballer of the year. Nicholson actually bought in a long term replacement for Blanchflower, who in the end never got to really play. Though no one could have expected Blanchflower to still be playing until 38. But then for one reason or another something changed, Blanchflower was reappointed captain and the rest is history.
I always find it strange that none of the players seems to have liked Anderson, even those who benefited from him, like Tommy Harmer. It's reached a point where Nicholson, who took a very active role in the day to day coaching of the club, seems to get credit from the good years under Anderson and Anderson for the bad years. But we got close to the title a few times under Anderson, and he'd been at the club since failing to break through the youth team, from 1908-1958. We also signed some very important players for us during that time. So I think he probably does deserve more credit than he ever got.
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Peter Taylor
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I’m pretty sure Ray Clemence had a period as club captain. He took over in 1985/86, when Steve Perryman left for Oxford, and continued into 1986/87 until David Pleat switched the captaincy to Richard Gough part way through the season.
C0YS
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I'll look into it.
Ok there does seem to be a gap, it seems Perryman left on March the previous season. I, however, can't find anything explicitly saying it was Ray Clemence who took the role.
For the few months at the end of the 1985/1986 season you would think Graham Roberts would be the obvious choice, assuming he was still getting games, and I know he captained the side in the UEFA cup but that was through injuries rather than a full-time position. However, it might just be no one got that role permanently until Gough. I'm looking for anything on Clemence, but nothing yet.
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C0YS
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This dive into Tottenham history has also revealed just how many top managers have come from our club.
An incomplete list:
Vic Buckingham: Manager of Ajax and Barcelona, and considered the inventor of total football
Arthur Rowe: Vic's teammate who pioneered push and run, which essentially was imported and built upon from what was happening in Hungary. This style of football is what came to be known as the 'tottenham way' for some people. Some would say he introduced the concept of overlapping full backs to the UK as well.
Herbert Chapman: Yes Arsenal's most famous manager and pioneer of the WM was a Tottenham player.
Alf Ramsey: Who left annoyed that Nicholson got the coaching job at Tottenham ahead of him, is the most famous English manager of all time.
Bill Nicholson: First manager to win the double this century, turned Rowe's idealistic football into a more pragmatic form without really changing the nature of it.
This is without trying, but these five are incredibly important for the development of football both domestically and globally. Nicholson and Ramsey, who were prodigies of Arthur Rowe were both a little bit more pragmatic (Ramsey btw was an overlapping fullback, and Nicholson played right in front of him as a midfield screen to cover him, it must be said that both a fullback and a midfielder were very different back in those days). But the other three, have irreversibility shaped football in a way that has just become part of the modern lexicon of football.
EDIT: What I wrote about Rowe is a simplification and doesn't seem to do him justice. The reality is he came to Hungary to lecture about football, and he personally doesn't quote his experience there has the defining factor in push and run, though I am sure he learnt a lot there.
now Tottenham have a long history of Scottish managers, I know it is weird to say that today, but Scottish football in the early days was based on a passing game. One particular manager, who happens to be our longest serving one, was a guy called Peter McWillian. Now Peter McWillian developed a prototype of what became push and run, and a prototype of what became total football. His principles of football shaped the education of both Rowe and Buckingham.
How weird is it to know that our history, and our traditional footballing style, share the same branch as Barcelona and Ajax, and how weird is it to say that without Tottenham an McWillian, there wouldn't be this footballing identity in Ajax and Barcelona, there wouldn't be Cruyff (who was talent-spotted by Buckingham and learnt from him) their wouldn't be Guardiola. It's a strange thought.
An incomplete list:
Vic Buckingham: Manager of Ajax and Barcelona, and considered the inventor of total football
Arthur Rowe: Vic's teammate who pioneered push and run, which essentially was imported and built upon from what was happening in Hungary. This style of football is what came to be known as the 'tottenham way' for some people. Some would say he introduced the concept of overlapping full backs to the UK as well.
Herbert Chapman: Yes Arsenal's most famous manager and pioneer of the WM was a Tottenham player.
Alf Ramsey: Who left annoyed that Nicholson got the coaching job at Tottenham ahead of him, is the most famous English manager of all time.
Bill Nicholson: First manager to win the double this century, turned Rowe's idealistic football into a more pragmatic form without really changing the nature of it.
This is without trying, but these five are incredibly important for the development of football both domestically and globally. Nicholson and Ramsey, who were prodigies of Arthur Rowe were both a little bit more pragmatic (Ramsey btw was an overlapping fullback, and Nicholson played right in front of him as a midfield screen to cover him, it must be said that both a fullback and a midfielder were very different back in those days). But the other three, have irreversibility shaped football in a way that has just become part of the modern lexicon of football.
EDIT: What I wrote about Rowe is a simplification and doesn't seem to do him justice. The reality is he came to Hungary to lecture about football, and he personally doesn't quote his experience there has the defining factor in push and run, though I am sure he learnt a lot there.
now Tottenham have a long history of Scottish managers, I know it is weird to say that today, but Scottish football in the early days was based on a passing game. One particular manager, who happens to be our longest serving one, was a guy called Peter McWillian. Now Peter McWillian developed a prototype of what became push and run, and a prototype of what became total football. His principles of football shaped the education of both Rowe and Buckingham.
How weird is it to know that our history, and our traditional footballing style, share the same branch as Barcelona and Ajax, and how weird is it to say that without Tottenham an McWillian, there wouldn't be this footballing identity in Ajax and Barcelona, there wouldn't be Cruyff (who was talent-spotted by Buckingham and learnt from him) their wouldn't be Guardiola. It's a strange thought.
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Peter Taylor
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I’d need to find my 1986/87 Handbook for final proof however this blog has videos from various games that season - and you can see Clemence wearing the armband in matches before Christmas
A Moment in Time - 1986-87 When Tottenham Almost Won the Treble
It could be argued this was Tottenham’s finest season since the double in 1960-61, although Harry Redknapp might be one to argue. ...
franklymrspencer.blogspot.com
I’ve also found the attached image of the Liverpool v Spurs programme where Ray is listed as captain (with Roberts also in the team)
Additionally, this article from the club website mentions Gough becoming captain in January 1987
https://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/2018/august/catching-up-with-richard-gough/
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C0YS
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Perfect that's awesome.I’d need to find my 1986/87 Handbook for final proof however this blog has videos from various games that season - and you can see Clemence wearing the armband in matches before Christmas
A Moment in Time - 1986-87 When Tottenham Almost Won the Treble
It could be argued this was Tottenham’s finest season since the double in 1960-61, although Harry Redknapp might be one to argue. ...
I’ve also found the attached image of the Liverpool v Spurs programme where Ray is listed as captain (with Roberts also in the team)
Additionally, this article from the club website mentions Gough becoming captain in January 1987
https://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/2018/august/catching-up-with-richard-gough/
wlhatwhl
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A little research through some old programmes from the 1930s produced the following info on captains, from the team lists:
1930-31/31-32: Tom Meads
1932-33: Billy Felton
1933-34: Arthur Rowe (although Felton started the season as captain until losing his place early on)
1934-35: Arthur Rowe until having a serious injury. At first, Tom Evans took over but later it was Wally Alsford
1935-36: Les Howe
1936-37: Bill Whatley
1937-38/38-39/39-40: Willie Hall
Others did captain the team during these seasons but it seems to have been for occasional matches when the 'captain' was absent.
1930-31/31-32: Tom Meads
1932-33: Billy Felton
1933-34: Arthur Rowe (although Felton started the season as captain until losing his place early on)
1934-35: Arthur Rowe until having a serious injury. At first, Tom Evans took over but later it was Wally Alsford
1935-36: Les Howe
1936-37: Bill Whatley
1937-38/38-39/39-40: Willie Hall
Others did captain the team during these seasons but it seems to have been for occasional matches when the 'captain' was absent.
C0YS
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Possibly, but if he did it would have been as cover for Redknapps injuries rather than full time.
Thanks, super helpful, for some reason the 30s are much harder than even earlier info to find reliable info. Rowe was a complete place holder, on the basis of some photos documenting him as captain in the mid 30s. I had a strong feeling Whatley was captain based on certain team photos, but I also did for Roger Hunt.
Very helpful!
punkisback
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He was just when Ledders or Daws didn’t play! Annoys me when people thought he was captain or commentators think that Kane is captain now.
Peter Taylor
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An oddity that I just remembered; Robbie Keane was made ‘First Team Captain’ when he returned from Liverpool in 2009, although Ledley remained ‘Club Captain’
C0YS
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Indeed, and I thought to include it, but decided against it, partly because club captain is easier to deal with. Partly because Robbie Keane didn't get many games to really make the dual captaincy an issue, from a fan perspective at least. The reality is day to day wise Robbie Keane was the defacto captain way before that got formalised on his comeback.
On this I am going to assume Tom Evans and Alsford as stand-in captains as Rowe was still at the club at the time, maybe such a distinction wasn't so clear at the time but if I allow it I risk opening up a minefield. Unless you can find something specifically indicating more permanency to the role (even something like Rowe and, say, Alsford playing together).
Very Exciting. Very few question marks left. These are: The Billy Minter vs Thomas Clay vs Arthur Grimsdell issue. We know Grimsdell was Spurs captain from 1921 at the latest. We also know that Billy Minter was almost certainly appointed captain after the world war, before it became obvious he wasn't such a good player. Now some sources say that Clay captained Tottenham promotion in 1919/1920, however, clay is actually absent from team photo's of that season (could have been injured and was only an 11), some sources say Grimsdell led the team to promotion. So I've put clay between Minter and Grimsdell for now but not much clarity. What makes things more confusing in some sources suggest that Clay was captain for a considerable stretch of time, which confuses things even more. Either Clay became captain when Grimsdell had injury problems later in his career, or, what I think, he captained a lot of games during wartime games which I'm not counting in this list. There is very strong evidence to suggest Grimsdell also was club captain between 1920-1929, about as strong as you can get.
Other issues, was Tom Collins captain until the league was cancelled in 1915, or did someone else step in during that time. The last issue. Sources suggest that Bobby Steel was captain of Tottenham (until injury in 1912, possibly after as well). However, when actually looking into it, in archives Danny Steel, his brother, is captain in team photos, furthermore, Danny Steel's grandaughter states he was captain between 1908-1912, all evidence collaborates with this. So, the question mark is if Bobby Steel was actually made captain for a short period in 1912 before being injured and replaced with Tom Collins, or is it just a confusion, where people have confused which of the two brothers actually was captain.
The final issue is, was Walter Bull made captain after Jack Jones or was their someone in between. There is good reason to think Walter Bull might have been made captain early, he was a fairly big player, he came from Notts county a top division side, while we were still in the southern league (though tbf the football league at that time was nicknamed the northern league as very few southern teams played there), and he even represented the league in a special xi to face a Scottish league xi. He also was a reserve for the English national team, though I don't think he ever got a game. He also was out PFA representative and clearly was an important figure. Probably only Vivian Westwood was a bigger player, who never was captain even though he was a director at the club and England captain because at that time if you were in England, you didn't seem to play much club football. However he arrived in 1904, the same year Jack Jones left for Watford, so I'm not sure. I think there probably is another player in between.
EDIT; Sandy Tait was the captain before Walter Bull.
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Nine while nine
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One book I have ('Spurs' by Julian Holland and written in 1957) has Bobby Steel as captain during the infamous tour of Germany in 1914 and the 1914-15 season. It adds that Minter became captain after Bobby Steel and 'when his legs got a bit too slow for first-team football he became trainer'. The same book says that Clay captained the promotion team of 1919-20, with Grimsdell taking over the captaincy in 1920. Quite when Minter captained the team isn't clear then.
Bob Goodwin's 'Essential History of Tottenham Hotspur' has Danny Steel as captain from 1907-08 to 1911-12, Tom Collins from 1912-13 to 1913-1914 and Danny Steel again in 1914-15, but I think that latter entry is wrong and it's Bobby Steel in 1914-15.
Bob Goodwin has Stanley Briggs in 1896-97, John L Jones from 1897-98 to 1903-04 (barring 1899-1900 where Jimmy McNaught gets the nod) and then Sandy Tait from 1904-05 to 1906-07, after which Danny Steel takes over. There's no mention of Walter Bull.
Julian Holland confirms Briggs as captain in 1896 (for our first season in the Southern League). He also refers to McNaught as captain until he missed a game through injury 'and never got back into the side'. His only mention of Walter Bull is that 'opponents would bounce off like boys as they rushed in to tackle him' - there's no reference to him being captain.
Hope that helps.
C0YS
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Yes very helpful. I suspect Minter was made captain at the start of 19-20 but didn't last very long. It was post war, so it wouldn't make sense that his legs got too slow.
Bobby Steel in 1914-15 makes sense, Danny wasn't even at Tottenham in 14-15, he was playing for Orient. Biggs fits that year gap. I know Walter Bull was captain in 07-08 as there is photographic evidence of a whole team photo (holding the ball and everything), including Danny steel. It is entirely possible Steel took over shortly after the start of the season and considering he was offered a management position and was PFA representative that season might well be the case. He also seems to only have 11 registered appearances for Tottenham. That would probably only count league appearances which makes sense, as we joined in 08/09. A lot of players also called it a day when we left the southern league for the big leagues. Also the fact that her granddaughter, admittingly on a comment section of an article, said Danny steel was captain from 1908-1912 leads me to think that Walter Bull was indeed captain, and maybe here is where we benefit from the internet.
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