Tottenham Vs Bolton: Match Thread

[karennina]

Ok, you're backtracking from...

I have a problem with the... level of support he gets

to the more conciliatory

I just don't understand the adulation.

but what all of it misses is the genuine compassion and empathy that a lot of us have for a clearly goofy, loveable and innocent (in some kind of serious sense) character.

It's not all about who's the best player is it? And the kind of power/performance-over-love attitude that your original post demands be embodied in our choice of terrace songs resonates most loudly, if you're choosing a metaphor, with the money-over-society hell that Thatcher and her son Blair inflicted on this island. It's loudest, in the current cultural context, because that's the biggest gong to hit, and you hit it full on.

Pav is loveable. The english love an underdog. What is the problem with these two obvious facts?

 

[spurs_viola]

Stoof, just try to get this into your head (and take a deep breath before reading, please): this player has not been anti-Spurs; he has been anti-Harry. And with good reasons too, as far as he is concerned. Not all of us equate Spurs with Harry. It is possible to support Spurs passionately and to see certain flaws in the current manager at the same time. I know this must be a huge paradox to you and some others here.

But perhaps it is still possible to try and understand that this is not a pro-Pav campaign; this is pro-team Spurs where people want to see the best options for the team, not just the best options for the current manager. And if people believe - with good reason it appears - that the better option has been sidelined in favour of the manager's preferred players who have been pretty ineffective for a long time, people would naturally want to support the player whom they believe to be the better option wrongly denied a proper chance. Nothing to do with people suddenly falling in love with Pav or some other player.

 

[StartingPrice]

Stoof, just try to get this into your head (and take a deep breath before reading, please): this player has not been anti-Spurs; he has been anti-Harry. And with good reasons too, as far as he is concerned. Not all of us equate Spurs with Harry. It is possible to support Spurs passionately and to see certain flaws in the current manager at the same time. I know this must be a huge paradox to you and some others here.

But perhaps it is still possible to try and understand that this is not a pro-Pav campaign; this is pro-team Spurs where people want to see the best options for the team, not just the best options for the current manager. And if people believe - with good reason it appears - that the better option has been sidelined in favour of the manager's preferred players who have been pretty ineffective for a long time, people would naturally want to support the player whom they believe to be the better option wrongly denied a proper chance. Nothing to do with people suddenly falling in love with Pav or some other player.

Sorry SV (any relation to UV:shrug I just do not accept this interpretation. As I have said elsewhere: Pav. did get into the team at the start of the season because the team was performing so goddam well (hope you didn't miss that). He and/or his agent then bitched to the media. The very act of bitching meant that 'Arry then had the dilemma that if he put Pav. into the team it would have made him look like a weakling, and the other players (out of the team) would deduce that if they, too, bitched to the media they would also get into the team - hey, it's easier than working damned hard! Every time the Pav. camp bitched it decreased rather than increased his chances of playing, so this very reason given aboe (whether 'Arry did take it personally, it is not necessary to look that far for an explanation - this is a perfectly self-explanatory one). Add to this the fact that, for whatever reason, he didn't seem to be training particularly well - whether out of hubris, or just 'cos he thoght he would be moving soon and wouldn't play again for Spurs, is irrelevant. It is also important to realise that this situation isn't unique to 'Arry, every manager that has managed him (insofar as I know) has said exactly thw same about him - he isn't easy to fathom or motivate. I believe this does just perplex the hell outta 'Arry who is at the other extreme pole - a bubbly, infectious character.

I like Pav., I really do; I was vocal in my support of him when many on herer had consigned him to the dustpin that was last graced by Sergei Rebrov. And I really want to see him succeed at WHL...as I think he is a genuinely talented striker. I also think Aitch continued to play Crouch when many of us thought that Pav. would be a better option, for the very simple reason that he could rely on him to 'do a shift' - whereas Pav. seemed to have already considered himself gone, and coulda been a disaster. Believe me, if he had put Pav. in, at any satge, and he had performance had been a bag of shite and the team had lost the outcry about the 'useless Russian ****' would have been immense. We now know that we lost against Wolves, it's happened. But imagine if 'Arry had put Pav. in for that one, and we had lost it anyway, with Pav. strolling about not looking interested - most of those now praising Pav. would've been rustling up a lynch mob.

As DogsOfWar said, 'Arry has now got Bentley, Bale and Pav. playing at something like the expected standard, and he is still getting an earful for it. I really do belieeve that 'Arry's only agenda is himself and that, right now, means Spurs. No secret vendetta...I think he would just do it, if he wanted rid of some one - make them train with the kids and all of that stuff.

 

[karennina]

people believe - with good reason it appears - that the better option has been sidelined in favour of the manager's preferred players who have been pretty ineffective for a long time, people would naturally want to support the player whom they believe to be the better option wrongly denied a proper chance.

Sorry SV (any relation to UV:shrug I just do not accept this interpretation.

Well it was definitely a part of it for me - the percieved injustice of Crouch starting when another, more skilful and more spurs-style player was on the bench.

 

[Stoof]

Pav is loveable. The english love an underdog. What is the problem with these two obvious facts?

It's not a problem, in fact, it's exactly what I've been saying. But what you've said there has fuck all to do with football.

 

[karennina]

It's not a problem, in fact, it's exactly what I've been saying. But what you've said there has fuck all to do with football.

But we were talking about the allocation of singing, which is what you had "a problem" with innit?

:think::sleepy:

 

[talkshowhost86]

Stoof, just try to get this into your head (and take a deep breath before reading, please): this player has not been anti-Spurs; he has been anti-Harry. And with good reasons too, as far as he is concerned. Not all of us equate Spurs with Harry. It is possible to support Spurs passionately and to see certain flaws in the current manager at the same time. I know this must be a huge paradox to you and some others here.

But perhaps it is still possible to try and understand that this is not a pro-Pav campaign; this is pro-team Spurs where people want to see the best options for the team, not just the best options for the current manager. And if people believe - with good reason it appears - that the better option has been sidelined in favour of the manager's preferred players who have been pretty ineffective for a long time, people would naturally want to support the player whom they believe to be the better option wrongly denied a proper chance. Nothing to do with people suddenly falling in love with Pav or some other player.

1. He wants to leave Spurs and has said so very publically. That, whichever way you want to spin it, is anti-Spurs.

2. Not equating Harry with Spurs? What? He's the Spurs manager...of course we all equate Spurs with Harry. And funnily enough I suspect Harry's 'preferred players' are those that got the team into 4th in the league in the first place rather than any bizarre conspiracy which quite alot on here seem to be dreaming up.

3. "the better option has been sidelined in favour of the manager's preferred players who have been pretty ineffective for a long time". This quote is mind-bogglingly short-termist. Crouch has been a huge part of our push to 4th and in fact offers the only aerial threat in a team that has been devoid of a target man since Berbatov left. To ignore what Crouch has contributed is to really not understand the game. And whilst we're dealing with 'ineffective' players, Pav was ineffective for a hell of a lot longer than Crouch when he was in the team so maybe that's why he wasn't playing under Harry? Not to mention the training aspect (except of course Harry is just making that up isn't he because big Peter is his mate :shrug


This whole Redknapp/Pav thing is perhaps the most ludicrous episode of Spurs fanmanship since the calls to 'give Taarabt a chance'. The idea that Redknapp would put Spurs' and his own success at risk just because he has a 'preferred player' is ridiculous. Crouch has been getting in the team because he's been doing well in matches whilst Pav sulks around off the pitch not training properly and whinging in the press. In recent weeks Crouch has gone off the boil slightly and Pav has been given his chance. He's taken that chance, is apparently doing better in training and generally looks like he actually gives a toss at last.

How is that being used as a stick to beat Redknapp with? That's good management surely?

Yes yes I know Crouch doesn't have Pav's puppy-dog eyes but come on Spurs fans why are we attacking a manager who has got us to 4th and is now starting to get the best out of a striker who was previously pretty useless for us?

 

[Kendall]

But we were talking about the allocation of singing, which is what you had "a problem" with innit?

:think::sleepy:

It'd blind following.

Where was the super crouch chants when he bunged in a hat trick? the super Niko chants when he ripped City to shreds?

Players who do a shitload of work for spurs get little to no praise but pavlyuleadfoot gets a chant just for warming up.

Pavlyuchenko is simply a 'cult' hero at spurs. One of those that's likeable despite not actually being very good. Like Freund.

 

[Stoof]

But we were talking about the allocation of singing, which is what you had "a problem" with innit?

:think::sleepy:

It'd blind following.

Where was the super crouch chants when he bunged in a hat trick? the super Niko chants when he ripped City to shreds?

Players who do a shitload of work for spurs get little to no praise but pavlyuleadfoot gets a chant just for warming up.

Pavlyuchenko is simply a 'cult' hero at spurs. One of those that's likeable despite not actually being very good. Like Freund.

This.

Although Steffen Freund is a football genius. :lol:

 

[RickyVilla]

It'd blind following.

Where was the super crouch chants when he bunged in a hat trick? the super Niko chants when he ripped City to shreds?

Players who do a shitload of work for spurs get little to no praise but pavlyuleadfoot gets a chant just for warming up.

Pavlyuchenko is simply a 'cult' hero at spurs. One of those that's likeable despite not actually being very good. Like Freund.

How dare you doubt Steffen's footballing ability. If he had been born Brasilian he would have been the next Socrates! :razz:

 

[spurs_viola]

1. He wants to leave Spurs and has said so very publically. That, whichever way you want to spin it, is anti-Spurs.

2. Not equating Harry with Spurs? What? He's the Spurs manager...of course we all equate Spurs with Harry....

3... Crouch has been a huge part of our push to 4th and in fact offers the only aerial threat in a team that has been devoid of a target man since Berbatov left. To ignore what Crouch has contributed is to really not understand the game. And whilst we're dealing with 'ineffective' players, Pav was ineffective for a hell of a lot longer than Crouch when he was in the team so maybe that's why he wasn't playing under Harry?....

.....

Yes yes I know Crouch doesn't have Pav's puppy-dog eyes but come on Spurs fans why are we attacking a manager who has got us to 4th and is now starting to get the best out of a striker who was previously pretty useless for us?

1. Except that Pav actually said that he loved the club, the teammates and the fans - unfortunately he had a big problem with the decision-maker, ie team manager who made it clear that he did not like the player.
I know you believe every word from Harry's mouth, but please spare us the spin here - at least refer to full quotes, not just rehash them to suit your entrenched view.

2. So Spurs = Harry for you, and as you claim "for all of us"? Without Harry we cannot even consider our team's longer term ambitions, is that what you believe? I doubt too many supporters would agree with you there...

3. Crouch scored 5 league goals in 6 months so far, playing in every game and starting most of them now. He is a striker. I call that a pretty ineffective form for a striker.

Pav only played consistently until Keane was brought to the club - in a struggling team disrupted mid-season. And that was when we only had Bent and young Man U reserve player in attack. We now have 4 experienced international strikers.
How can you compare the circumstances?

 

[chrissivad]

1. Except that Pav actually said that he loved the club, the teammates and the fans - unfortunately he had a big problem with the decision-maker, ie team manager who made it clear that he did not like the player.
I know you believe every word from Harry's mouth, but please spare us the spin here - at least refer to full quotes, not just rehash them to suit your entrenched view.

Do you have the quotes where he says he has a problem with Harry? not seen it my self so would like to see it.

 

[Luka Lennon]

1. Except that Pav actually said that he loved the club, the teammates and the fans - unfortunately he had a big problem with the decision-maker, ie team manager who made it clear that he did not like the player.
I know you believe every word from Harry's mouth, but please spare us the spin here - at least refer to full quotes, not just rehash them to suit your entrenched view.

2. So Spurs = Harry for you, and as you claim "for all of us"? Without Harry we cannot even consider our team's longer term ambitions, is that what you believe? I doubt too many supporters would agree with you there...

3. Crouch scored 5 league goals in 6 months so far, playing in every game and starting most of them now. He is a striker. I call that a pretty ineffective form for a striker.

Pav only played consistently until Keane was brought to the club - in a struggling team disrupted mid-season. And that was when we only had Bent and young Man U reserve player in attack. We now have 4 experienced international strikers.
How can you compare the circumstances?

well atleast Redknapp didn't do this eh

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/85/e...4408/spurs-redknapp-told-to-slap-pavlyuchenko

 

[$hoguN]

If he starts going off the boil again I say Redknapp should try it... Better yet let Joe jordan

 

[spurs_viola]

Do you have the quotes where he says he has a problem with Harry? not seen it my self so would like to see it.

These are just a couple of those I had time to find:

Geez - 25-01-2010, 07:35 PM
Source: Daly Mail

Roman Pavlyuchenko is still determined to move from White Hart Lane but his hopes have been complicated by a groin strain that requires a scan.
….
'I've already heard lots of times from Redknapp that I'm going to play, but I still remain sitting on the bench,' said Pavlyuchenko. 'I don't think that goal will change anything…'​

mawspurs - 31-12-2009, 04:22 PM
Source: Sky Sports

Spurs striker still seeking switch.

Roman Pavlyuchenko has moved a step closer to the exits at Tottenham
after accusing Harry Redknapp of 'mocking' him.​

The Russian striker has publicly declared his desire to leave White Hart Lane during the January transfer window on numerous occasions, with
first-team opportunities proving hard to come by.​

Spurs have hinted that they may be willing to do business, with Redknapp looking to free up funds for further reinforcements.​

Pavlyuchenko is certainly doing all he can to secure a switch elsewhere, with the disgruntled 28-year-old launching a fresh blast in the direction of his current boss.​

"You cannot even imagine how tired I am of sitting on the bench," he said.​

"Do you want to hear the most recent joke in London? It goes: Harry Redknapp put Roman Pavlyuchenko in the starting line-up.​

"For me it would be funny if it was not so painful. I have a feeling that our manager is mocking me."​

Grudge​

Pavlyuchenko feels Redknapp holds a grudge against him, with the former Spartak Moscow frontman recalling another painful memory from his time spent in the shadows at Spurs.​

He added: "On the eve of the Carling Cup Quarter-final (at Manchester United) he asked me to come to see him. He said: 'Tomorrow will be a chance to show your best in front of 75,000 spectators. You need to use it'.​

"He used it by keeping me on the bench for the whole 90 minutes."

I highlighted corrections, as Sky Sports mixed up the matches during translation of the interview he gave to sportsexpress.ru.
​

 

[jimmyn16]

Pavlyuchenko feels Redknapp holds a grudge against him, with the former Spartak Moscow frontman recalling another painful memory from his time spent in the shadows at Spurs.​

He added: "On the eve of the Carling Cup final (against Manchester United) he asked me to come to see him. He said: 'Tomorrow will be a chance to show your best in front of 75,000 spectators. You need to use it'.​

"He used it by keeping me on the bench for the whole 90 minutes."​

[/QUOTE]

Pav's memory is defective. He started the game and was subbed after 65 minutes.

 

[spurs_viola]

Pavlyuchenko feels Redknapp holds a grudge against him, with the former Spartak Moscow frontman recalling another painful memory from his time spent in the shadows at Spurs.​

He added: "On the eve of the Carling Cup Quater-final (at Manchester United) he asked me to come to see him. He said: 'Tomorrow will be a chance to show your best in front of 75,000 spectators. You need to use it'.​

"He used it by keeping me on the bench for the whole 90 minutes."​

Pav's memory is defective. He started the game and was subbed after 65 minutes.[/quote]

Slysports.com used the interview from the Russian press and got mixed up during translation - he of course referred to the QF this season (hence the 75,000 spectators), not the Final last season.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Slysports.com used the interview from the Russian press and got mixed up during translation - he of course referred to the QF this season (hence the 75,000 spectators), not the Final last season.

And this is the same game where Pav did what Arshavin did to Wenger and told him he wasn't 'mentally' right to play after Russia had failed to qualify for the World Cup?

 

[SpurSince57]

Do you have the quotes where he says he has a problem with Harry? not seen it my self so would like to see it.

Well, we had that interview with Pav that guy from FTL got, in which he said that Ramos getting the bum's rush was like having a stone removed from the team's necks. Will that do? :grin: