Tottenham vs Real Madrid - Part II: The Match Thread

Shadydan

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So is what you're saying that the rules are wrong? Currently, nothing in the rules relates to disadvantaging the attacking team. Only intent. Do do you think that the rules should be chsnged? In which case, a goalbound shot that accidentally hits a hand is a penalty, right?

In the case of our game, Modric goes for a header but missed completely and the ball hits his arm. Completely unintentional. Would you give that as a penalty? If so, you have to change the rules.

I watched the video - surely the penalty is given for the foul, nothing to do with a handball?
Nope, as I keep saying I understand the rules but there are always contentious decisions and grey areas, like I pointed out before refs have used common sense in these situations in the past and given handballs despite the defender not meaning to touch the ball, it's not as black and white as you make out. It's all about context really, not EVERY decision should be given as a foul and not EVERY decision should be play on but depending on circumstance you should award the attacking team especially if that situation puts them at a disadvantage when they could have benefited from a promising situation...I don't even understand what you're trying to debate, there's overwhelming evidence numerous times which lays contrary to your claims.

The only reason they won't change the rules to accidental handball is because it would create confusion and teams will try and buy penalties by kicking it against players' hands or arms.

I haven't even seen the Modric incident to be honest but I'm not even arguing about that anyway, more against the mere insistence that handball's need to be deliberate to be given as a foul which is incorrect. BTW The penalty in the Utd/Benfica was given for handball fella, not the foul. (y)
 

ernie78

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Last night was epic, the atmosphere was amazing and probably most importantly I put to bed my personal Wembley hoodoo - Since 1986 I have never seen any team I’ve supported win at Wembley. Be it football, rugby lge or internationals I have not seen a win. I initially didn’t want to go as I didn’t want to jinx Spurs to a kicking but am so glad I saw that and can go again finally.
 

ClintEastwould

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Cant wait to get in from class and watch the game again, with beers, popcorn and slo-mo at the ready. Last time I did that was Arsenal in 2015 with Kane's winner and before that, Inter 3-1.

Glory Glory Tottenham Hotspur!
 

SpursDave88

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Not at all.

After the draw, people seemed to be polarised into the two camps of "what a shit draw, we're so unlucky, we're going to get spanked" and "what a great draw, we get to test ourselves against the best teams in Europe" (with a few sitting on the fence).

I was firmly in the latter camp. Without denying how tough it was going to be, I saw no reason why we couldn't compete and get out of the group.

Obviously it was a bit of a cheap shot though - I'm just fed up with the doom merchants who write us off before a ball has been kicked, slate players, etc., with very little to back it up.
This plus every time we don't win "the league is gone"
 

1882andallthat

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From the moment that draw was announced most of the pundits had pretty much written us off and didn't even offer us a wing and a prayers chance of getting out of this group, they were saying unequivocally that we were in the pretty much same boat as Celtic which wasn't bound for the knockout stages unlike Liverpool Chelsea Man Utd and Man City who had the so called golden passages.

I must admit you could see what they were basing it on in that they only had to look back to last seasons group stages at Wembley, even I had my doubts and thought we'd be right up against it. How wrong could many of us most of them be ? We were everything in the group stages that we weren't last year and that is he biggest understatement of the year, we were bold, brave, decisive, we had clear tactical plans and we didn't freeze on the big stage.

We now need three points from the last two games to guarantee top spot, who'd have though it ? A fantastic achievement, COYS, let's finish the job off in style and go through as group winners, let some of the other English teams worry about pulling Real Madrid out of the hat in the knockout stages.
 

TottenhamMattSpur

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I'm just watching the recording of BT live coverage yesterday. Why do they keep saying a win would guarantee we go through? If Dortmund or Apoel had won they could mathematically have caught us?

Irrelevant now I know but it's bugging me
 

SpursDave88

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I'm just watching the recording of BT live coverage yesterday. Why do they keep saying a win would guarantee we go through? If Dortmund or Apoel had won they could mathematically have caught us?

Irrelevant now I know but it's bugging me
No they were correct and you were wrong.

Had Dortmund won, they would have been 6 points behind us with 2 games to play whilst Real were 3 behind us.

For Dortmund to finish above us they would then have to win both their games, including beating Madrid.

If that had happened then Madrid could at most get 3 points, thus being level on points with us but finishing below us because of the head to head record.

Ie if Dortmund had beaten Apoel and won both their remaining games, RM would have dropped intk Europa.
 

fletch82

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Sorry, run that by us again?

The definition of handball is deliberate, end of.

Unfortunately the way this is enforced is the problem.
That is the definition but.....

It' horse shit if a unfair advantage is gained by the player it should be a free ick or in Ramos case last night a pen
If you score from a handball accidental or not it should be hand ball period
Same as if you keep the ball out of your bet accidentally ala Ramos last night it should be a pen.
Silly feckin rule that needs revising yet again.
 

TottenhamMattSpur

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No they were correct and you were wrong.

Had Dortmund won, they would have been 6 points behind us with 2 games to play whilst Real were 3 behind us.

For Dortmund to finish above us they would then have to win both their games, including beating Madrid.

If that had happened then Madrid could at most get 3 points, thus being level on points with us but finishing below us because of the head to head record.

Ie if Dortmund had beaten Apoel and won both their remaining games, RM would have dropped intk Europa.
If we beat Madrid and Dortmund beat us and Madrid (had they won against Apoel) they'd have finished on 10 points, same as us if we lost to Apoel.

It would then have gone to head to head between us and Dortmund to decide who finished higher.
If Madrid had beaten Apoel but, as I mentioned, lost to Dortmund, they too would have been on 10 points and gone head to head with Dortmund and us.

So I can't see How, had Dortmund have won yesterday, we would have been through.
 

SpursDave88

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If we beat Madrid and Dortmund beat us and Madrid (had they won against Apoel) they'd have finished on 10 points, same as us.
It would then have gone to head to head between us and Dortmund to decide who finished higher.
If Madrid had beaten Apoel but, as I mentioned, lost to Dortmund, they too would have been on 10 points and gone head to head with Dortmund and us.

So I can't see How, had Dortmund have won yesterday, we would have been through.
Because RM would have finished below us because of the head to head. Having drawn and lost to us...
 

Spurger King

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Because RM would have finished below us because of the head to head. Having drawn and lost to us...
This. Beating Real guaranteed a three way tie at the top of the table on points, at worst.

As our head to head v Real was better, we’d finish at least second.
 
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The tiebreaker if 3 teams are level on points is points in matches between them.

In the scenario above we would have topped the group and Madrid would have gone out.