Tottenham Vs West Ham: Match Thread

[Gaz_Gammon]

What like losing at Liverpool the other night?
Or not burying the Italians when he had the chance too.

Away to Liverpool is slightly, (but just ever-so) more of a different proposition than at home to eleven Pike's. Honest.

Fiorentina should if they win their game in hand go third and in all likelihood qualify for a CL spot next season. They have conceded just twenty three goals, whereas we are up their with Aston Villa at thirty six. Fiorentina are a very good Italian side.

West Ham are er...........West Ham big difference in quality of those three.

 

[JAYSTAR]

Yeah i agree with you i think we will miss out on top four mainly because of results like today we tend to shoot ourselves in the foot.
And also Our goal difference is not great and hasnt been for years because we dont score enough and we concede far too easy.
I just wonder how hard is it to coach good defending we are much too careless at the back to challenge seriously compete with the big boys.

You are right about our defending. We've let in 36 goals.. only newcastle are worse down in 11th and 12th and 13th place have only conceded one more! Even west brom and hull have conceded less and they're in 14th and 15th place in the league!

We've actually done ok on goals for, with 41, but it's keeping clean sheets that seems to be our problem.

http://www.espnfc.com/barclays-premier-league/23/table

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Jeezzzzzzzzzz and there i was thinking goals won games.......

I mean Lamela can have the ball for ninety bloody minutes but what does that prove? Chadli bloody destroyed Chel$ea, and offers more than an odd step over and nutmeg.

We had sixty five percent of the ball today and needed the last kick of the game, a soft penalty rebound to draw a game against a side that was heading for it's first back to back wins at WHL since 1966 for Christ's sake. This was West Ham we were playing not Man Citeh or the like.

Seems to me that you are suggesting that we play Lamela irrespective of the result just so that we can keep the ball and press high up the pitch? Well that theory worked splendidly today for ninety five minutes didn't it?

If playing Chadli means putting five goals passed Chel$ea but "compromises the system" then i am all over that idea like a rash.

I don't really know why you're getting irate. I'm not arguing against the idea of Chadli playing, I'm arguing for Lamela starting, not Townsend. Lamela didn't take anyone's place as he's started the last few EPL games and played well. Townsend was the one who was getting a rare league start at the expense of Eriksen (of late) or Chadli.

I said pages and pages ago I would have preferred if Chadli was started, not Townsend, which would have meant Dembele and Lamela could have continued in the positions they are best in and Chadli would have been in the position he is best in (ALM).

If you are talking about pure productivity numbers then Chaldi (goals/assists 12), Eriksen (10) and Lamela (6) should be starting and Dembele (2) and Townsend (2) should miss out. But football isn't just about personal totals, it's about balance and what works best overall, what happens in between each box as well as what happens in each box.

I am not saying Chadli can't fit into that optimal line up or system. But right now due to the all round package Lamela offers over the only viable alternative for the ARM position - Townsend - I would have him there.

 

[shelfboy68]

You are right about our defending. We've let in 36 goals.. only newcastle are worse down in 11th and 12th and 13th place have only conceded one more! Even west brom and hull have conceded less and they're in 14th and 15th place in the league!

We've actually done ok on goals for, with 41, but it's keeping clean sheets that seems to be our problem.

http://www.espnfc.com/barclays-premier-league/23/table

Our defending is terrible its a reason why i think we will fall short again this year, it needs to improve next season for sure.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

I don't really know why you're getting irate. I'm not arguing against the idea of Chadli playing, I'm arguing for Lamela starting, not Townsend. Lamela didn't take anyone's place as he's started the last few EPL games and played well. Townsend was the one who was getting a rare league start at the expense of Eriksen (of late) or Chadli.

I said pages and pages ago I would have preferred if Chadli was started, not Townsend, which would have meant Dembele and Lamela could have continued in the positions they are best in and Chadli would have been in the position he is best in (ALM).

If you are talking about pure productivity numbers then Chaldi (goals/assists 12), Eriksen (10) and Lamela (6) should be starting and Dembele (2) and Townsend (2) should miss out. But football isn't just about personal totals, it's about balance and what works best overall, what happens in between each box as well as what happens in each box.

I am not saying Chadli can't fit into that optimal line up or system. But right now due to the all round package Lamela offers over the only viable alternative for the ARM position - Townsend - I would have him there.

Not irate, chilled actually. At our very best i think Chadli, Eriksen and whoever out of Townsend or Lamela on the right. I'd partner Dembele with Mason or Bentaleb (or rotate the three). Today's set-up was doomed to fail from the off.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Our defending is terrible its a reason why i think we will fall short again this year, it needs to improve next season for sure.

I think that Liverpool have now gone with six clean sheets from their last seven games? That's why their climbing the PL table. The prick Rogers has found a way to use their pace since Suarez has left and now that they have Sterling back they are a real threat going forward as well.

 

[shelfboy68]

I think that Liverpool have now gone with six clean sheets from their last seven games? That's why their climbing the PL table. The prick Rogers has found a way to use their pace since Suarez has left and now that they have Sterling back they are a real threat going forward as well.

Yes your right they have got their act together and are closing in on the pack, i can them making top four again.
It Does piss me off that we cant sort ourselves out at the back but then maybe sorting out the defence might not be his strong point.
He has done well so far but hasnt improved us in those four positions but i think southampton were not that great under him either but have improved this year under koeman, so it might have to be something we have to live with.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

 

[dondo]

I disagree, his strengths outweigh his weaknesses and he's a better player and defender than Walker. Kyle's pace mask a lot of negatives.

The only defender that is better with the ball is Vertonghen, Walker is useless in possession.

I don't intend to belittle Walker but he gets away with too much. He says he looks up to Dani Alves, I don't see what aspect of his game he's copied.

AVB sherwood poch and all the coaching staff since vlad got here disagree and lots of spurs fans me included too

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

I see a few of you are picking up on our defensive weakness. Think we could do with a bit more physicality in front of them though myself, as well as Mason and Bentaleb have done the combo is a bit lightweight. Good news is that Delle Ali looks like a real powerhouse and could be a better option to play with Nabil, once he's settled in of course. That said I still think we should move for Schniederlin if possible, and have Mason and Ali as back up/rotation options.

 

[DaSpurs]

I see a few of you are picking up on our defensive weakness. Think we could do with a bit more physicality in front of them though myself, as well as Mason and Bentaleb have done the combo is a bit lightweight. Good news is that Delle Ali looks like a real powerhouse and could be a better option to play with Nabil, once he's settled in of course. That said I still think we should move for Schniederlin if possible, and have Mason and Ali as back up/rotation options.

Lack of size is not the problem. Yes we could certainly do with a more astute and disciplined specifically defensive midfielder, and physicality would be beneficial there, but it is not the quality we lack. West Ham gave us a clinic today on how to press quickly, and it wasn't their size that overcome us it was the speed and voracity with which they closed on the ball-carrier and forced them into making poor decisions. We lack that speed and voracity higher up the pitch (I'm not Lamela's biggest fan, but he's frankly one of our better players in this sense), do not have a fully disciplined defensive midfielder, and have a high back line behind all of it. Hence, it is a series of unfortunate events due to our imbalance as to why we are continuing to ship too many goals, not a lack of physicality specifically.

 

[225]

Just caught the highlights - caveat here is that highlights don't show the full picture, so my thoughts might be quite flawed.

Anyway, shocking defending. Looks like we had some really good chances from Bentaleb, Soldado, and possibly Kane but for some decent keeping from Adrian.

Noble should have been sent off (2nd yellow), no question. Shocking decision.

Lamela looked like he offered much more than Dembele, who seemed to be counter effective.

Rose should be concentrating more on defending before he loses all attention to the game by claiming for an offside when the ball is still landing in the 6 yard box. Should have been offside, but that's not for Rose to worry about.

Lloris made some important saves again, but our defence is slipping back to Benny Hill standards.

 

[jambreck]

Just watched MOTD2.

Hadn't noticed before but I reckon that we should have been awarded a penalty when Harry Kane hit the post. Just as he was about to pull the trigger, a West Ham defender (Reid?) who had made no contact with the ball came flying into him, sending him off balance and quite probably causing him to shoot off target.

And given that it was a clear goal scoring opportunity, the West Ham defender should probably also have been sent off.

Would have made for a very different game, I dare say!

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

Lack of size is not the problem. Yes we could certainly do with a more astute and disciplined specifically defensive midfielder, and physicality would be beneficial there, but it is not the quality we lack. West Ham gave us a clinic today on how to press quickly, and it wasn't their size that overcome us it was the speed and voracity with which they closed on the ball-carrier and forced them into making poor decisions. We lack that speed and voracity higher up the pitch (I'm not Lamela's biggest fan, but he's frankly one of our better players in this sense), do not have a fully disciplined defensive midfielder, and have a high back line behind all of it. Hence, it is a series of unfortunate events due to our imbalance as to why we are continuing to ship too many goals, not a lack of physicality specifically.

Your talking about a different department. It's pretty obvious that the 3 that played in behind Kane today lack quality, thats the bottom line there. My post was purely talking on a defensive level, and the combo of Bentaleb and Mason is too lightweight for me, Mason especially gets muscled off the ball continuously. We arnt going to have a specific DM in the system Poch uses, so you can scrap that idea, not happening. But when you look at Poch's Souhampton he had Wanyama, a powerhouse midfielder, something we dont have currently.

 

[DaSpurs]

Your talking about a different department. It's pretty obvious that the 3 that played in behind Kane today lack quality, thats the bottom line there. My post was purely talking on a defensive level, and the combo of Bentaleb and Mason is too lightweight for me, Mason especially gets muscled off the ball continuously. We arnt going to have a specific DM in the system Poch uses, so you can scrap that idea, not happening. But when you look at Poch's Souhampton he had Wanyama, a powerhouse midfielder, something we dont have currently.

No, I'm not talking about a different department, I'm talking about the entire system. I'm saying that the system's drawback is not specifically physicality, even in one department/position, but that the collective itself is missing too many pieces.

To be blunt, introducing only a physical powerhouse in defensive midfield is not going to solve our problems. In fact, I'm not even sure if it were alone, that would offer any benefit whatsoever in this system given our current options. What we need in that position is a more disciplined specific defensive midfielder who excels in breaking up play (doesn't necessarily have to be physical to do so), and several other cogs missing in the system.

Physicality alone will not shield how quickly and swiftly we're countered. In fact, again given the current system, I think it'd be more of a problem as we saw with Capoue because he or another powerhouse would be less quick and consequently even further expose our back line to the swift counterattacks.

It starts higher up the pitch where we have problems defensively, and extends further back.

 

[SpursManChris]

Is it wrong that in salivating to this??

I'd say so, yeah.

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

No, I'm not talking about a different department, I'm talking about the entire system. I'm saying that the system's drawback is not specifically physicality, even in one department/position, but that the collective itself is missing too many pieces.

To be blunt, introducing only a physical powerhouse in defensive midfield is not going to solve our problems. In fact, I'm not even sure if it were alone, that would offer any benefit whatsoever in this system given our current options. What we need in that position is a more disciplined specific defensive midfielder who excels in breaking up play (doesn't necessarily have to be physical to do so), and several other cogs missing in the system.

Physicality alone will not shield how quickly and swiftly we're countered. In fact, again given the current system, I think it'd be more of a problem as we saw with Capoue because he or another powerhouse would be less quick and consequently even further expose our back line to the swift counterattacks.

It starts higher up the pitch where we have problems defensively, and extends further back.

I didnt say it would solve ALL our problems. Not losing the ball so easily in the attacking 3rd will stop us getting countered so much, but I wasnt even on that subect tbh. But if you think the combo of Bentaleb and Mason has the strength and power needed to take us to being a top 4 club then fine, but I'm pretty sure we'll be looking to add more strength in there in the summer (we may already have with Ali depending on how fast he can develop).

 

[jezz]

Away to Liverpool is slightly, (but just ever-so) more of a different proposition than at home to eleven Pike's. Honest.

Fiorentina should if they win their game in hand go third and in all likelihood qualify for a CL spot next season. They have conceded just twenty three goals, whereas we are up their with Aston Villa at thirty six. Fiorentina are a very good Italian side.

West Ham are er...........West Ham big difference in quality of those three.

O I see.
So if the opposition is good, Chadli doesn't need to track his man? Right okay
Fiorentina are good side, what's that got to do with missing chances?
Chadli has been brilliant this season going forward, but he needs to work on his defensive game.
I suspect this has been pointed out to him.

 

[DaSpurs]

I didnt say it would solve ALL our problems. Not losing the ball so easily in the attacking 3rd will stop us getting countered so much, but I wasnt even on that subect tbh. But if you think the combo of Bentaleb and Mason has the strength and power needed to take us to being a top 4 club then fine, but I'm pretty sure we'll be looking to add more strength in there in the summer (we may already have with Ali depending on how fast he can develop).

True, you didn't say that. But I later pointed out in that post that even specifically at the position, it isn't physicality we need to improve. It's IMO more discipline and awareness from a specifically designated defensive midfielder. Part of why I dislike the double pivot so much is that I don't think it clearly defines responsibility enough to either midfielder, offensively or defensively. Leaves too much room for improv at the moment, and with how often we're countered and how decimating it is due to our lack of pace, that's a massive problem.

So no, I don't think what we lack even in midfield is physicality or power. But I do absolutely agree with you that the midfield of Bentaleb and Mason is not enough to accomplish our ambitions. What they lack though IMO is sufficient dynamic movement and influence through tight spaces, not more power which would only further limit our press because of consequential further loss in pace.

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

True, you didn't say that. But I later pointed out in that post that even specifically at the position, it isn't physicality we need to improve. It's IMO more discipline and awareness from a specifically designated defensive midfielder. Part of why I dislike the double pivot so much is that I don't think it clearly defines responsibility enough to either midfielder, offensively or defensively. Leaves too much room for improv at the moment, and with how often we're countered and how decimating it is due to our lack of pace, that's a massive problem.

So no, I don't think what we lack even in midfield is physicality or power. But I do absolutely agree with you that the midfield of Bentaleb and Mason is not enough to accomplish our ambitions. What they lack though IMO is sufficient dynamic movement and influence through tight spaces, not more power which would only further limit our press because of consequential further loss in pace.

I think you'll find Wanyama is pretty quick, Delle Ali too. I'd actually say both would skin Mason in a straight race.