Tottenham Vs West Ham: Match Thread

[DaSpurs]

I think you'll find Wanyama is pretty quick, Delle Ali too. I'd actually say both would skin Mason in a straight race.

In a straight race, perhaps. But with the agility and direction-change speed required in an intense full systematic press, I don't think so.

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

In a straight race, perhaps. But with the agility and direction-change speed required in an intense full systematic press, I don't think so.

So how do you explain Schniederlin and Wanyama doing so well in Poch's system? Neither have a particular low center of gravity.

 

[DaSpurs]

So how do you explain Schniederlin and Wanyama doing so well in Poch's system? Neither have a particular low center of gravity.

Very reasonable question.

A) Saints were afforded far more space than we are and did not face setups explicitly primed to counter against them with pace, B) they had pacier options and a more effective press ahead of them, and C) they're just flat out better players with regard to positional discipline.

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

Very reasonable question.

A) Saints were afforded far more space than we are and did not face setups explicitly primed to counter against them with pace, B) they had pacier options and a more effective press ahead of them, and C) they're just flat out better players with regard to positional discipline.

So they were offered more space in what you call a 'full systematic press"? (which is what you referred to more physical players not being able to do).

I'm going to leave it there mate as I think I've provided enough evidence to back up my opinion on this issue. You know its kinda hard to have a discussion with someone that refuses to concede on any point

 

[DaSpurs]

So they were offered more space in what you call a 'full systematic press"? (which is what you referred to more physical players not being able to do).

I'm going to leave it there mate as I think I've provided enough evidence to back up my opinion on this issue. You know its kinda hard to have a discussion with someone that refuses to concede on any point

Likewise, because I don't think you've even given any indication that you understood my point, nor do I actually even see any evidence whatsoever you've offered to reinforce that it's physicality we need specifically. And in truth, I concede I'm wrong plenty on here. Just ask @spurs9, dude drops knowledge on me all the time. You though... sorry love. It's cute though

Even so, the space a team affords its opposition isn't even remotely the same as the space that opposition attempts to close in a press. That's like saying an army charging another standing still are on equal terms with respect to advantages and disadvantages because the distance between them is one and the same.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

O I see.
So if the opposition is good, Chadli doesn't need to track his man? Right okay
Fiorentina are good side, what's that got to do with missing chances?
Chadli has been brilliant this season going forward, but he needs to work on his defensive game.
I suspect this has been pointed out to him.

I rather think that Rose needs to learn how to defend. Today after stopping to play and allowing Sakho a free shot on goal it doesn't really matter who is playing in front of him. You can't fix stupidity, and Poch i hope is beginning to see that.

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

Likewise, because I don't think you've even given any indication that you understood my point, nor do I actually even see any evidence whatsoever you've offered to reinforce that it's physicality we need specifically. And in truth, I concede I'm wrong plenty on here. Just ask @spurs9, dude drops knowledge on me all the time. You though... sorry love. It's cute though

Even so, the space a team affords its opposition isn't even remotely the same as the space that opposition attempts to close in a press. That's like saying an army charging another standing still are on equal terms with respect to advantages and disadvantages because the distance between them is one and the same.

Yet more bitchy little comments? You really need to get a life

By the way it was you that were talking about how said players "didnt have the change of direction speeds to play a pressing game". So I replied to that point, you then changed the subject to "oh but they get more space though". Your all over the place, like most of your posts tbf, 10 page essays of mostly pure waffle, in a poor attempt to imply you know about tactics and to save face when you've blatantly been proven wrong.

 

[DaSpurs]

Yet more bitchy little comments? You really need to get a life

By the way it was you that were talking about how said players "didnt have the change of direction speeds to play a pressing game". So I replied to that point, you then changed the subject to "oh but they get more space though". Your all over the place, like most of your posts tbf, 10 page essays of mostly pure waffle, in a poor attempt to imply you know about tactics and to save face when you've blatantly been proven wrong.

What?! I changed the subject?!

You brought up the foot race between Mason and Wanyama.

I said yes, perhaps Wanyama would win. But not when it comes to agility and directional change.

You asked "how come Schneiderlin and Wanyama good in Poch system?"

I explained why, politely, including space.

Erego, you changed the subject. I apologize if you couldn't follow the transition, but big ol lol that I was "blatantly proven wrong" when not only did you in your first post prove you couldn't even follow the conversation, but you didn't even provide any evidence whatsoever in the first place . It's like saying someone is proven wrong because you drew "A" on a napkin and held it up. You have the insight of a fucking worm, and it's adorable that you're insulting others because you couldn't even follow the conversation in the first place. Just about every discussion you have with someone on here leads to you making derogatory comments and declaring the other person is wrong in your attempt to bail out. It's laughable, dude. Shit just goes entirely over your head and then you go flinging insults. 14 year old antics.

Anyway, gonna try out the ignore list. Bored with trying to engage in conversation with you and you repetitiously repeat the cycle of polite conversation -> you make derogatory comment -> I respond with one -> you make personal insult coupled with acting like you've done no wrong. Laughable I've wasted so much time on your thick head in attempt for pity.

Peace.

 

[Spurs 1961]

Back to the game ...
I have only watched the MOTD edited highlights but it just looked like a few mistakes which cost us. Mason, Eriksen, Dembele and Kane looked a little slack and of course Rose not playing to the whistle hurt us. If we learn from it then OK. I thought the suggestion by the panel that with seven days to a cup final players might be worried about injuries so not maybe 100% focused had some merit as a reason for some of this slackness. Without our help, from what I saw, West Ham would not have been in the game

 

[1882andallthat]

A huge relief in salvaging a point which on balance wasn't really merited. Why oh why do we not use pace down our flanks and a high intensity pressing combined with quick passing againt the Spammers, if we did we would tear them to shreds, they dictated the play for at least 65 mins of that game as once again we lost the tactical battle against Allardyce, and this disappoints and frustrates me, especially when West Brom show us the way to do it with a lot to spare a week prior to this.

Is the basic schoolboy error by Danny Rose of failing to play to the whistle cancelled out by his goal that finally sparked us into some intensity much needed for the last 10 mins of the game. On goals yes as once cancelled out the other but let's face it, he didn't mean to hit the ball in that way, we got lucky with that one as it completely fooled Adrian and it probably surprised Rose himself, if he said he did mean it then frankly I don't believe him. On the subject of intensity if we played like that for even half the game instead of leaving it till the late late show we could have come away with so much more and gained even more ground on Man Utd and Southampton, so I am left frustrated by that.

A massive improvement is needed for our next two tasks ahead to avoid ending the week completely empty handed.

One thing I did find funny was the presumptions way the Spammers seemed to gloat when they were singing "it's happening again, Tottenham Hotspur it's happening again" they were happy dishing and it out but once again they were not so happy to take it back as the smile was wiped off their faces at the end as you could see them angrily gesticulating towards our fans at the end and they were spitting their dummies out the pram when we sang 2-0 and you f*cked it up. They annoy me in that way as they are constantly trying to point out that we don't have a sense of humour. It would have been even funnier if we'd sang " it's happening again West Ham United it's happening again, injury time, West Ham United it's happening again.

 

[dagraham]

Back to the game ...
I have only watched the MOTD edited highlights but it just looked like a few mistakes which cost us. Mason, Eriksen, Dembele and Kane looked a little slack and of course Rose not playing to the whistle hurt us. If we learn from it then OK. I thought the suggestion by the panel that with seven days to a cup final players might be worried about injuries so not maybe 100% focused had some merit as a reason for some of this slackness. Without our help, from what I saw, West Ham would not have been in the game

Explains the totally flat 2nd half against Fiorentina too. Still not really the mentality of a top club in multiple competitions though, which is why having a young squad is great, but you need to pad it out with experienced winners as well.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

. Why oh why do we not use pace down our flanks

The problem is, who do we have that can use pace down our flanks? None of our "wide" players are that pacey.

 

[dagraham]

The problem is, who do we have that can use pace down our flanks? None of our "wide" players are that pacey.

It's a huge problem throughout the team. The only pacey players in the whole squad are Rose and Walker and when teams crowd us out in the middle and don't allow our full backs into the game, we have no way to get in behind or stretch the opponents. Which is why I still wouldn't have ditched Lennon, until we have a viable alternative.

 

[Grey Fox]

Is it just me but wasn't Harry being taken out when he hit the post the most blatant penalty of the season? I can't believe no one really appealed and not one so called expert mentioned it. I am convinced he would have scored if he hadn't been rugby tackled

 

[DEFchenkOE]

It's a huge problem throughout the team. The only pacey players in the whole squad are Rose and Walker and when teams crowd us out in the middle and don't allow our full backs into the game, we have no way to get in behind or stretch the opponents. Which is why I still wouldn't have ditched Lennon, until we have a viable alternative.

Agree it's a huge problem in our team, we can't stretch our opponents and have no real pace for them to be afraid of.

Don't really agree about Lennon though, no point having pace if you rarely or don't know how to use it. Watched Everton closely again yesterday and he was useless, took on the defender twice all game. One cross went straight to the keeper and the other pulled back to nobody. Will be back on the bench again soon.

 

[Mullers]

I rather think that Rose needs to learn how to defend. Today after stopping to play and allowing Sakho a free shot on goal it doesn't really matter who is playing in front of him. You can't fix stupidity, and Poch i hope is beginning to see that.

Sounds like Walker.

 

[Khilari]

Anothet thread turned into turd.

On a completely different note, anyone think Dier has played well but individual mistakes have cost us goas?

Likewise for Fazio but we seemed to have developed a good CB partnership earlier in the season.

 

[Mullers]

Poch needs to do a lot of work with the team defensively, I think maybe he should bring in a specialist defensive coach.

 

[1882andallthat]

The problem is, who do we have that can use pace down our flanks? None of our "wide" players are that pacey.

Walker, Rose and Townsend are no slouches they could and should have been able use their pace to get past and in behind their defenders, in the wing backs cases on the overlap and played decisive quick crosses in. I'm not saying that the three aforementioned are world beaters or that they are the most intelligent of footballers but I don't think is asking much to do that, and how many times does Townsend predictably cut inside and run straight into defensive traffic? Surely he should be able to see that this often fails to pay dividends and it only occasionally comes off, he should be made to watch re-runs until it sinks in, he and they should also be told firmly that byline is there for a reason, and that if you are quick enough which these three all are, it doesn't take a genius to work out that if you get there first you will have space to get a few dangerous crosses in if you are decisive enough . West Ham do not have quick intelligent tactical world class defenders, they have bang average plodders who can block off slow ball and deal with slow play in front of them all day long so why we persist with that when it does not work is nativity in the first degree.
It's not difficult to see how vulnerable the Spammers look when teams use their pace and the byline they have been vulnerable to those tactics for years.

 

[joelstinton14]

Back to the game ...
I have only watched the MOTD edited highlights but it just looked like a few mistakes which cost us. Mason, Eriksen, Dembele and Kane looked a little slack and of course Rose not playing to the whistle hurt us. If we learn from it then OK. I thought the suggestion by the panel that with seven days to a cup final players might be worried about injuries so not maybe 100% focused had some merit as a reason for some of this slackness. Without our help, from what I saw, West Ham would not have been in the game

Nice post. Although we were poor I didn't think they were great either. It felt as though all there chances came through our own mistakes. Havnt watched the highlights yet, but at the game I thought rose was our best player. Not sure who was at fault for the goals as I was sat in the north stand in the corner, but especially the first goal we had about ten years to get rid of it.