Tottenham's tactics too cautious to win title, says Robbie Savage

[SteveH]

Our big problem is lack of good footballers on the pitch ATM (Edit: in the final third). Eriksen and Lamela are good players who are in their first season and will get better.

Townsend is, well for me, great goalkeeping practice. Could not pass a ball if his life depended on it unlike his predecessor.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

I might disagree with that. What AVB does is defend high up the pitch. This is also a good tactic to play attacking football but that requires committing people forward into the box, making runs through without the ball. Right now we are not doing that and are the most static of what I would call the top six teams. This also makes us the most predictable so other coaches can work out tactics. Of course that is OK if you have a couple of players that can do something special...we need Eriksen and Lamela to be allowed to be those players, imo

He does this so we can press higher up the pitch and win the ball in attacking areas. It is an attacking minded tactic.

You are right, players do need to make better runs off the ball but instinctive attacking combinations will come together the more the new players gel.

 

[CowInAComa]

anyway its only been 18months. give it time.

 

[Wardy]

anyway its only been 18months. give it time.

Exactly. To be honest why are we worried about anything:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/tables


Arsenal overachieving at the minute and we're right in the mix

 

[SpainSpur85]

Although it's easy to agree with what has been written, isn't 2 points a game average and clean sheets in 70% of the games title winning form? In previous seasons, I've been a bit jealous of teams who could win 1-0 or play badly and still win, Arsenal and United did this for years, we're starting to be able to do this. I don't want us to be a negative side, but I don't really think we are, by not conceding goals we need less goals to win or at least not lose.

 

[Mr Pink]

I can see it now, we'll beat Newcastle 1-0...with a penalty from Bobby....cue the meltdown lol

 

[talkshowhost86]

Whilst I don't have a particular problem with how things are going at the moment, I did look at Arsenal's line-up on Saturday with a degree of envy.

They managed to play Arteta, Rosicky, Ramsey, Ozil and Cazorla which looks terrific on paper and looked pretty good in practice as well.

Whilst I'd never want to see us go completely without defensive midfielders, I do wonder whether we could incorporate all of our more technically gifted players in one team and play a similar style.

Something like

----------Sandro--------

---Dembele-Holtby---

Eriksen----------Lamela

---------Soldado--------

 

[SFCS]

He's right about one thing, we're not going to win the league but who seriously thought we would?

I really don't know what game most people were watching but we certainly weren't cautious. Normally after a first half of dominance like we had you'd expect to see our possession pushing towards 70% but it wasn't because we were losing the ball by putting in crosses and trying to put players in. Soldado was admittedly ignored when he made a couple of runs but he also squandered the two best chances of the half. Sure there was a lack of quality in some of the play in the final third(which I think Savage was trying to get at) but it was far from cautious. The second half was disappointing as we lost our control on the game but we still played okay.

Away against Everton isn't a game we must win, like Savage thinks. Ask Chelsea whether they'd rather take draws in tough away games like Everton and Newcastle. A draw is a far better result than a loss, it was the difference between 4th(on target) and 8th(poor). Away from home our performances are fine and the record we have is really good, it's our home form and performances that need to be sorted out.

 

[Legend10]

He's right about one thing, we're not going to win the league but who seriously thought we would?

I really don't know what game most people were watching but we certainly weren't cautious. Normally after a first half of dominance like we had you'd expect to see our possession pushing towards 70% but it wasn't because we were losing the ball by putting in crosses and trying to put players in. Soldado was admittedly ignored when he made a couple of runs but he also squandered the two best chances of the half. Sure there was a lack of quality in some of the play in the final third(which I think Savage was trying to get at) but it was far from cautious. The second half was disappointing as we lost our control on the game but we still played okay.

Away against Everton isn't a game we must win, like Savage thinks. Ask Chelsea whether they'd rather take draws in tough away games like Everton and Newcastle. A draw is a far better result than a loss, it was the difference between 4th(on target) and 8th(poor). Away from home our performances are fine and the record we have is really good, it's our home form and performances that need to be sorted out.

Please don't post common sense like this.

 

[dynamoSpurs]

Agree entirely.

If we're going to play with two "wingers", they need to start taking players on, getting to the by-line and putting in crosses.

This not only creates a cross opportunity, but drags their defenders more out wide, giving our CMs more space to get into in and around the box for deflections, 1-2's etc.

IF our wingers are not up to the task, then we shouldn't be playing with wingers, period.

 

[absolute bobbins]

1.After ten premier league fixtures
Tottenham have averaged exactly 2
points per game, take a look at the final
table from last season and you will
realise that only the Manchester clubs
achieved that feat over the course of
the thirty-eight game season. AVB is on
an upward spiral in relation to average
points per game and even allowing for a
poor return of goals so far the reality is
that if they maintain that average then
they will almost certainly guarantee
themselves Champions League football
at the very least.
2.It took until the 25/11 and fixture
thirteen before Tottenham hit 20 points
last season and so they are already well
ahead of the game. With a three game
cushion still to play who knows yet how
far they can go, it is certainly not the
time to doubt the coach and players,
let’s face it it’s not as if Tottenham
have won too many trophies in the last
twenty years, there is no great recent
history which the supporters are
comparing this squad to
3.Tottenham have played seventeen
games so far this season and have lost
just the two fixtures, a difficult away
game early in the season to the league
leaders and a home defeat to West
Ham who were in reality fortunate to
get the breaks and the first couple of
goals to set them on their way. Only
Southampton with one defeat and
Everton with the same two defeats have
a comparable record but have played
six games less. The leaders Arsenal have
lost three in cups and the league as
have Chelsea, Liverpool and United
while City have already lost four.
4.When you consider that AVB has had
to contend with the loss of two world
class talents in the two summer
transfer windows he has been in charge
it is a minor miracle that he has still
managed to achieve a record points
haul for the club, he has clearly done
remarkably well, the fact that he is on
course to do so again after integrating
what amounts to fourteen new players
into the squad in little over a year
warrants every Tottenham supporters
unquestioned support.
5.There have been many instances of
teams winning titles and trophies built
on the back of a rock solid defence,
Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool are
testament to that. We all know that
Tottenham are renowned as a club that
plays with flair and style but we don’t
need reminding that since 1961 that has
been limited to cup wins and at a
decreasing rate. The teams that usually
succeed more often than not do so with
a strong defence and now we have one
of the best, 17 games played and only
four teams have breached the defence
is testament to a good team, the fact
that in almost every game Tottenham
have also easily been the more
offensive team, that combination is
generally associated with a very good
team.
6.Just this week Steve Bruce and
Roberto Martinez have suggested that
Tottenham are genuine title contenders,
before them Mourinho, Houghton and
most other opposition managers have
said the same, nothing so far suggests
that they are wrong, performances have
all been tremendous with the one
exception being too few goals scored
and that was ultimately the reason for
the W.Ham defeat. I firmly believe that
even that issue will be addressed and
soon, there is far too much quality
within the squad for it to be more than
a matter of work on the training ground.

You had me at "upward spiral"

 

[JollyHappy]

I seriously doubt our game plan at the start of the season was to win the title. It was to finish top 4. Top 3 would be a bonus.

If we keep up our current form then 2 points a game will be enough for top 4.

Robbie is right - we won't win the title (this season). But keep this squad together, keep AVB, get top 4 and let's see what happens once we also then actually spend some money (remember net spend this year is nil).

 

[Ghost Hardware]

Whilst I don't have a particular problem with how things are going at the moment, I did look at Arsenal's line-up on Saturday with a degree of envy.

They managed to play Arteta, Rosicky, Ramsey, Ozil and Cazorla which looks terrific on paper and looked pretty good in practice as well.

Whilst I'd never want to see us go completely without defensive midfielders, I do wonder whether we could incorporate all of our more technically gifted players in one team and play a similar style.

Something like

----------Sandro--------

---Dembele-Holtby---

Eriksen----------Lamela

---------Soldado--------

I would be very happy to see that, i would just swap Lamela and Eriksen over. But in general starting Lamela, Holtby and Eriksen i think will be key in developing our attacking play into something altogether more effective.

 

[Boots]

Whilst I don't have a particular problem with how things are going at the moment, I did look at Arsenal's line-up on Saturday with a degree of envy.

They managed to play Arteta, Rosicky, Ramsey, Ozil and Cazorla which looks terrific on paper and looked pretty good in practice as well.

Whilst I'd never want to see us go completely without defensive midfielders, I do wonder whether we could incorporate all of our more technically gifted players in one team and play a similar style.

Something like

----------Sandro--------

---Dembele-Holtby---

Eriksen----------Lamela

---------Soldado--------

Liverpool played a high line with three centerbacks and Gerrard and Lucas to press the midfield three of Ramsey/Arteta (Redcard previous game, no?) and Ozil. The fact that all their midfielders except Arteta roam freely was sucidal team prepartion by Rodgers.

 

[DiscoD1882]

1.After ten premier league fixtures
Tottenham have averaged exactly 2
points per game, take a look at the final
table from last season and you will
realise that only the Manchester clubs
achieved that feat over the course of
the thirty-eight game season. AVB is on
an upward spiral in relation to average
points per game and even allowing for a
poor return of goals so far the reality is
that if they maintain that average then
they will almost certainly guarantee
themselves Champions League football
at the very least.
2.It took until the 25/11 and fixture
thirteen before Tottenham hit 20 points
last season and so they are already well
ahead of the game. With a three game
cushion still to play who knows yet how
far they can go, it is certainly not the
time to doubt the coach and players,
let’s face it it’s not as if Tottenham
have won too many trophies in the last
twenty years, there is no great recent
history which the supporters are
comparing this squad to
3.Tottenham have played seventeen
games so far this season and have lost
just the two fixtures, a difficult away
game early in the season to the league
leaders and a home defeat to West
Ham who were in reality fortunate to
get the breaks and the first couple of
goals to set them on their way. Only
Southampton with one defeat and
Everton with the same two defeats have
a comparable record but have played
six games less. The leaders Arsenal have
lost three in cups and the league as
have Chelsea, Liverpool and United
while City have already lost four.
4.When you consider that AVB has had
to contend with the loss of two world
class talents in the two summer
transfer windows he has been in charge
it is a minor miracle that he has still
managed to achieve a record points
haul for the club, he has clearly done
remarkably well, the fact that he is on
course to do so again after integrating
what amounts to fourteen new players
into the squad in little over a year
warrants every Tottenham supporters
unquestioned support.
5.There have been many instances of
teams winning titles and trophies built
on the back of a rock solid defence,
Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool are
testament to that. We all know that
Tottenham are renowned as a club that
plays with flair and style but we don’t
need reminding that since 1961 that has
been limited to cup wins and at a
decreasing rate. The teams that usually
succeed more often than not do so with
a strong defence and now we have one
of the best, 17 games played and only
four teams have breached the defence
is testament to a good team, the fact
that in almost every game Tottenham
have also easily been the more
offensive team, that combination is
generally associated with a very good
team.
6.Just this week Steve Bruce and
Roberto Martinez have suggested that
Tottenham are genuine title contenders,
before them Mourinho, Houghton and
most other opposition managers have
said the same, nothing so far suggests
that they are wrong, performances have
all been tremendous with the one
exception being too few goals scored
and that was ultimately the reason for
the W.Ham defeat. I firmly believe that
even that issue will be addressed and
soon, there is far too much quality
within the squad for it to be more than
a matter of work on the training ground.

I agree with every point. But dont get in the way of a good whitch hunt ever again. With your knowlegable statistics and sensible ramblings. We want blood and goals and we want them NOW!!!!

 

[Tott66]

Agree with savage but you are still a spurs baiting little shit digging us out in your weekly mirror article cos you bear a grudge.

 

[Ironskullll]

But he predicted 4th place anyway before the season started. No talk of the reason being AVB's conservatism at the time. http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/robbie-savages-premier-league-predictions-2173050

 

[remember91]

I agree with the previous poster, that on paper, we are not cautious.

We practically have a new attack, which is going to take time to settle. Lennon and Defoe are the only players that have had more than one full season. Siggy has had one season on the fringes, Holtby has had half a season on the fringes, Townsend has only ever been a cup/loan player and Erikson, Lamela, Soldado and Chadli are all new players.

It's understandable that a practically brand new attack is going to take time to gel, we should be happy that while that is happening AVB has got the Defence tight enough to give them time.

 

[TheSecretNonFootballer]

A lot of the time it seems we lose possession in the final third when someone plays it short to someone who has turn and run expecting the ball ahead of them or vice versa. Those sorts of things will improve as time goes on and players build an understanding.

Eriksen worked so well at Ajax because he knew where his teammates were all the time and what they were likely to do. He would play so many blind little flicks round corners knowing his teammate was there to receive it or to run on to it. He doesn't have that with Spurs yet. I appreciate that the only real way to do that is to give them all game time however there is also immense pressure to win matches and get points on the board. EVERYONE has been saying title contenders etc since the summer. Loads of the media continually demand that we get top 4 because AVB inherited a squad that did it before. A lot of Spurs fans, rightly or wrongly, also expect top 4. Arguably Levy wants results ahead of entertainment, at least in the short term. That has to affect AVB's thinking at least a little bit and may go some way to explaining the defensive nature of his approach. It may not be the sole reason, but is likely a contributing factor.

I think as Spurs fans, certainly over the past 20 years, we've become quite fond of the luxury player. The Berbatovs who don't track back, the Ginolas who pretend to jump for headers, the VDVs with glass hamstrings and so on. We've been willing to forgive their shortcomings because of the wonderful things that they would do (which is fair enough considering we weren't very good). As each season passes though it becomes less and less possible to justify carrying them. These days it's a requirement to do the boring stuff. I would say that as time has passed, each player has been slightly less luxury than the last, but as teams become much more tactically aware, and much more athletic, everyone is expected to put in a shift. Some of the newer boys, Paulinho aside because that is just how he works, haven't endeared themselves hugely with their work rates. Whether that is having a bearing on AVBs decision making I can't say, but I think it is. I'm not suggesting that anyone we have now is a luxury player, but there will be a few things that they're really not used to yet.

I've heard a few arguments now about the speed of the PL compared to others, and opinions generally vary. Personally I think that the PL is physically the fastest. You're closed down quicker, the man you're marking starts moving quicker, your opponent is generally more of a physical specimen. In other leagues, the ball is moved faster, the passing is quicker. Adapting to the PL way of playing is arguably more difficult unless you're already a physical type of player. This isn't always the case, some players adapt immediately, but there are certainly more that take time than not.

I completely forgot where I was going with this.... if anywhere at all....

 

[CrazyHeart]

No kidding - I just bought an AVB style raincoat from House of Fraser yesterday in honour of the man! That aside... a tie against Chelsea and Everton in their current form is not something to brush off here! This is the first time I've been this excited about our side, our morale and (dare I say) the fans! Regardless of what anybody says - we ARE title challengers! The only way to make top 4 this season is to go for the title - anything less will put them in Europa next season. Yes, I'm talking about the Jupiter moon!