Waving imaginary cards at the ref?

[Mattspur]

What do people think about this? It’s obviously being highlighted at the moment after Mancini did it against Wigan.

Personally, I don’t have a problem with it. I think that if the manager or players thinks the challenge deserves a card, then they should be free to say so. After all, when a bad challenge happens pretty much the whole ground starts calling for a booking or for the player to be sent off. So what difference if a manager or player does it. The one thing that I do feel should not happen is that players start arguing with the ref once he has made a decision. I think that should be a bookable offence.

The only issue here is the refs themselves. The refs should be strong enough not to be swayed by the waving of imaginary cards. If they’re not strong enough to deal with it, they shouldn’t be refereeing at that level.

I think it’s interesting that the people who have spoken out against these antics are managers like Pulis (http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11661/7442101/Pulis-wants-card-action) or McCarthy (http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11679/7438964/McCarthy-slams-Mancini-gesture) both managers of the leagues bully boys who’s teams survive on getting away with weak refereeing.

What’s your view on this?

 

[dav3j]

I don't think it needs to be banned or punished, but it's pretty poor sportsmanship. The press ought to make more of it and shame planks like Mancini for doing it.

 

[hughy]

Not overly bothered. Just the foreign way of Rooney or Terry going up to the ref and saying "surely that's a booking, ref?" I do often think too much is made of it.

I know there are those who say you should let the referee do the refereeing, but with some if the calls made in recent weeks you can see why players take it in to their own hands, quite literally.

 

[cwy21]

When it can cause problems for the referee is when you have a borderline yellow card situation. The ref could get away with showing a yellow or just doing a talking too. If an opponent does the card gesture and the referee then shows a yellow, it makes it look like that was the reason the ref showed the card even though he was going to the whole time.

It turn that might lead to more dissent and distrust from the other team.

Let the players play the fans be fans and the officials officiate.

 

[Mattspur]

When it can cause problems for the referee is when you have a borderline yellow card situation. The ref could get away with showing a yellow or just doing a talking too. If an opponent does the card gesture and the referee then shows a yellow, it makes it look like that was the reason the ref showed the card even though he was going to the whole time.

It turn that might lead to more dissent and distrust from the other team.

Let the players play the fans be fans and the officials officiate.

An intersting point.

One could argue that there shouldn't be borderline situations, but alas, there are. Maybe it would cut down on soft refs.

 

[cwy21]

One could argue that there shouldn't be borderline situations, but alas, there are. Maybe it would cut down on soft refs.

Its one of those things that people don't understand until you've refereed a few games or take time to understand the referee point of view.

The same tackle in the 10th minute of an Aston Villa/Spurs game might get a talking too but in the 80th minute of a heated 2-1 Manchester Derby it would draw a yellow.

Sure it flys in the face of the whole consistency argument that fans love to talk about but the Spurs/Villa game isn't likely to escalate because of the tackle while a heated derby could lead to an even worse tackle if the borderline yellow isn't given.

Its why being a ref is more of an art then a science.

 

[Azazello]

I don't see it as being much different from a player shouting abuse in a ref's face - it needs to stop and should be punished.

 

[Mattspur]

Its one of those things that people don't understand until you've refereed a few games or take time to understand the referee point of view.

The same tackle in the 10th minute of an Aston Villa/Spurs game might get a talking too but in the 80th minute of a heated 2-1 Manchester Derby it would draw a yellow.

Sure it flys in the face of the whole consistency argument that fans love to talk about but the Spurs/Villa game isn't likely to escalate because of the tackle while a heated derby could lead to an even worse tackle if the borderline yellow isn't given.

Its why being a ref is more of an art then a science.

I have refereed a match before. It was a fucking nightmare and for that reason I'm quite forgiving of the mistakes that are made.

I do disagree with the point you made about yellow card offence in one match and not the other, due to the potential for escalation. I think it's the refs job to enforce the rules not make predictions as to the reaction of his enforcement of the rules.

If a ref gives a yellow for a challenge which doesn't deserve a yellow simply because he thinks that it may stop someone committing a red card offence later on, he is infact potentialy altering the result of the match and future matches as well.

I hear time and time again that the refs should try to keep 22 men on the field. Why? Surley all the refs should do is enforce the rules of the game. People said, as an example, that the ref ruined the Manchester derby in the FA Cup by making the early sending off. I don't think he did. If any one is to blame it's the player who got sent off.

So back to the waving of cards. I don't see any problem with a ref giving a card after seeing someone wave their hands in the air providing that the ref makes the right decision. If the ref gets reminded that it should be a booking and he wasn't going to give one, then I think that's a good thing.

 

[nailsy]

Waving a card immediately after a tackle is a bit annoying but it doesn't really bother me that much as it's just a reaction the same as me telling the ref it's a booking while I'm watching it on TV. What does bother me is when players run up to the ref to get involved in the decision. I would love to see a ref turn around to a player who did that and say "No, that wasn't a booking. This is a fucking booking pal. Now what's your name?"

 

[LSUY]

For me waving imaginary cards should be stopped, along with managers and players urging the referee to take action over certain incidents. Referees should be grown up enough to make their own decisions but they are influenced by players and managers. I'm guessing this is in part down to wanting to avoid a media bollocking from the likes of Ferguson, etc.

Shame football can't poach Nigel Owens from rugby. He seems to make it clear that it's his job to referee the game and the players job to play the game.

 

[ShelfSide18]

Its one of those things that people don't understand until you've refereed a few games or take time to understand the referee point of view.

The same tackle in the 10th minute of an Aston Villa/Spurs game might get a talking too but in the 80th minute of a heated 2-1 Manchester Derby it would draw a yellow.

Sure it flys in the face of the whole consistency argument that fans love to talk about but the Spurs/Villa game isn't likely to escalate because of the tackle while a heated derby could lead to an even worse tackle if the borderline yellow isn't given.

Its why being a ref is more of an art then a science.

It's always interesting to hear a referee's viewpoint, is that point about consistency your interpretation of refereeing or the official stance of the powers that be?

When it comes to the imaginary card waving, I don't like it, but it does make me laugh that commentators and pundits get disproportionately outraged when someone does it, but never comment when you have players int he referees ears quite plainly asking for cards to be dished out. It's odd that 3 players crowded around a ref after a challenge is almost accepted, but woe betide anyone who flashes the imaginary card.

 

[mpickard2087]

When it comes to the imaginary card waving, I don't like it, but it does make me laugh that commentators and pundits get disproportionately outraged when someone does it, but never comment when you have players int he referees ears quite plainly asking for cards to be dished out. It's odd that 3 players crowded around a ref after a challenge is almost accepted, but woe betide anyone who flashes the imaginary card.

I agree about the crowding the referee, always wondered why this hasnt been stamped out because it is so easy, every player that crowds the ref gets a booking, if you have already been booked then tough shit your going off, any swearing at the ref and its a straight red.

Guarantee within a month players swarming the ref will be seen no more, all it takes is a bit of bottle from the FA and referees.

 

[brasil_spur]

Waving an imaginary card at the ref is criticising him for making a decision that you as the manager don't agree with.

So either ALL criticism is allowed to be levied at the ref by the manager, be it card waiving, verbal criticism (non insulting/offensive) or other no offensive gestures.

OR

None is allowed.

Simples.

 

[talkshowhost86]

I've said this before but if they just use the rugby rule of only allowing the captain to talk to the ref then it would cut out alot of this nonsense. As said above though this would take balls from the authorities, and they don't have balls.

 

[$hoguN]

I don't see it as being much different from a player shouting abuse in a ref's face - it needs to stop and should be punished.

This

 

[$hoguN]

I've said this before but if they just use the rugby rule of only allowing the captain to talk to the ref then it would cut out alot of this nonsense. As said above though this would take balls from the authorities, and they don't have balls.

Agreed

 

[Donki]

I've said this before but if they just use the rugby rule of only allowing the captain to talk to the ref then it would cut out alot of this nonsense. As said above though this would take balls from the authorities, and they don't have balls.

I thought this rule was already in football just not enforced at all, am I wrong?

I agree anyway, and hate players and managers waving imaginary cards, the manager is there to manage a player is there to play not influence the ref.

 

[talkshowhost86]

I thought this rule was already in football just not enforced at all, am I wrong?

I agree anyway, and hate players and managers waving imaginary cards, the manager is there to manage a player is there to play not influence the ref.

I don't think the rule exists. They briefly flirted with the pushing teams back 10 yards if they badgered the ref but that went out the window very quickly.

 

[Donki]

I don't think the rule exists. They briefly flirted with the pushing teams back 10 yards if they badgered the ref but that went out the window very quickly.

Yup you are correct, just googled it, should be brought in though.