We Have to Get Behind Juande

[sunnydelight786]

I'm not saying there is any evidence that he will get us anywhere. My point is that we need to break this cycle of changing manager every time we have a run of losses. We shouldn't have sacked Jol when we did, yet many fans were calling for him to go. Now we have fans calling for Ramos to go as well. Who next, and how long do they have before we jump on there back. We have to stick with someone sooner or later. I'd rather it was sooner, not because of who Ramos is, or what he has done, but because if we don't do it now I don't see when we will do it.

The squad clearly isn't up to it. A new manager isn't going to come in and turn this around with a whip of a wand. Is another manager going to be able to attract better players in January to give us the options we need? Will another manager be backed more than Ramos? I honestly can't see how changing the manager now will be of benefit to the team. If someone was to come in now, the squad would be in the same position, we still wouldn't have a midfield capable of creating chances for our strikers, and we still wouldn't have strikers capable of creating chances for themselves. So the new manager would suffer the same as Ramos, after how many games would we get on his back?

Amen to that!

 

[Dougal]

I'm not sure whether i want him to stay or not, i think it depends to me on whether we have a quality replacement lined-up before hand, BUT:

"What evidence do you have that he has the ability to pull us out of our slump?"

Umm last year when he took over we were in a slump (7 points from 11 games) and he pulled us out, enough to win the Carling Cup and get away from the relegation zone.

So OK we've been back in another slump since that, but he has shown at Spurs that he can pull us out of one.

The slump last year was created by the uncertainty the board placed on the club.

 

[brasil_spur]

The slump last year was created by the uncertainty the board placed on the club.

But you can't deny that Ramos was in charge when we were pulled out of that slump.

 

[rez9000]

I appreciate where you're coming from, nic. We should have stuck with Jol because he had proven himself to the club. Ramos hasn't and in fact seems to be proving with each passing game that he isn't the man to even get us out of the relegation zone. That's the difference in my mind.

I don't welcome managerial change. I even backed George Graham. But, for me, Ramos is a bridge too far. He hasn't demonstrated that he has the ability to cut it in the Premiership. If we were outside the relegation zone and showing good form in the Cups, then I'd halt my criticism. But we're propping up the table, the only side without a win in the Premiership (and at the same time, one of only two teams in the entire League without a win), we only beat Newcastle by the odd goal in the CC, scraped through against Krakow and were humiliated by Udinese.

There is nothing to suggest that there is any chance of a revival. We're doing badly in every competition and what's more we deserve our current plight because our performances have been so poor. If we'd played well and been robbed by circumstance, then that would also be a different matter, but we haven't deserved to win in the League, we didn't deserve to win against Udinese last night.

Whatever you may say about players are not doing their best, we've had some very poor luck, ultimately, that's only true in one or two cases. When all is said and done, Ramos has to bear some of the responsibility for our horrific start to the season. Once that is accepted then it becomes fairly obvious that one of the main causes is he himself. There are other factors at work too, but the most immediate is a Head Coach who has set course for oblivion and refuses to turn the wheel.

 

[Dougal]

But you can't deny that Ramos was in charge when we were pulled out of that slump.

:stupid:

Cheers, surprisingly I never get a real chance to use that smiley.

 

[Hoowl]

Winning the CC was the best achievement this club has made since 1999, i know it doesn't compare to the good ol' days SS57, but you can't discount it so flimsily.

How is 6 places gigantic?????:bang:

What do you get for the extra 6 place? Nothing! Ok, perhaps a few hundred grand, but we really don't need the extra cash that comes with it.

In the context of the current history of the club getting two fifth place finishes and qualifying for Europe through the league is a gigantic achievement. I would certainly say it's a bigger achievement than winning the Carling Cup. I'm not saying the Carling Cup counts for nothing and should be discounted but we played 6 games to win that cup, three of which were Blackpool, Middlesbrough and Manchester City. The fifth place positions were achieved by consistently performing over 76 league games. Im not saying we should be satisfied with 5th place but we should be happy with it and acknowledge it's significance.

How is the current regime more successful, simple:

2004/05 - JOL - 9th place, no UEFA cup qualification
2005/06 - JOL - 5th place, UEFA cup qualification
2006/07 - JOL - 5th place, UEFA cup qualification

2007/08 - RAMOS - 11th place, UEFA cup qualification, Carling Cup Winners

Now tell me that Ramos in his first season didn't achieve more than Martin Jol, not only did he achieve more than Jol, he also achieved much more than Jol did in his first season.

Now i'm as worried as the next person about the state of our current season, but for god sake people, you have to recognise what Ramos achieved with us last year - even 11th - he pulled us up from the bottom 3 of the table to 11th, it's not like we were riding high in 5th when he took over!

Those stats hardly show conclusively that the current regime is better than when Jol was here. In Jols final season he was undermined from very early, as for Ramos pulling us from the bottom three, Jol started the season with a defence of Kaboul, Gardner, Stalteri and Chimbonda. At Christmas we signed Woodgate and Hutton.

 

[rez9000]

But you can't deny that Ramos was in charge when we were pulled out of that slump.

Actually our resurgence lasted about two months, till the end of December and that was mainly down to the players putting in extra effort to impress the new manager, which every club experiences, when a new man takes over.

 

[MattyP]

I've done the maths and it's not good.

Ramos has been in charge for 58 games. His overall record at Spurs is 22 wins, 17 draws and 19 defeats. If you extrapolate this to a 38 league games with 3 points for a win and 1 for a draw this results in 54 points. Taking into account just the league games then it's 9 wins 11 draws and 15 defeats. That extrapolates to 41 points over a 38 game season.

To be fair, I think it was Gary Megson who said this week that he believes teams will survive the premiership with a record low points this year.

And 41 points would probablybe enough to survive, and at this precise moment I'm not looking for anything more than survival.

 

[3Dnata]

So some of you people would bring in a new manager right before we are going to play Arsenal then Liverpool?Don't you think he'd be likely to start with 2 loses?
Even if we had a caretaker this could lead to real rot and uncertainty setting in.
I didn't want Jol to go but if Ramos does now we will be at groundhogg day again this time next season.

 

[LadieK]

I'm not saying there is any evidence that he will get us anywhere. My point is that we need to break this cycle of changing manager every time we have a run of losses.

But, how long do we allow this situation to continue until he has to go? That's the thing.

This isn't a short-term thing, we finished 11th last season which was poor as well. As SS57 said we've been poor since Xmas really, I know we won the cup and won 5-1 against the scum, but these things masked over a bad season league wise - and this season it seems there are no masks to work for us. Not if last night was anything to go by!!

I really wanted Ramos to be great, but the gets it wrong with the team choice and the formation is pretty much every game! He doesn't seem to be learning from his mistakes.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

The squad clearly isn't up to it.

I actually think that our squad is up to it, I said in another thread that there are at least 7 teams with squads worse than ours, Bolton, Stoke, Hull, WBA etc. I want Ramos to succeed desperately for the good of our club but here is my main problem:

There is no evidence at all of us improving the way that we're playing, we look like complete strangers on the pitch with no clue or direction as to what we're doing. Even with new players I'd expect us to start resembling something of a team unit, but we don't. We don't seem to have any clear philosophy on the type of football that we're supposed to be playing.

Now why is this?

Players not good enough? I think they are.

Lacking in confidence? Maybe, but what about last season where still didn't seem to be playing with much pattern.

Ramos unable to get his point across to the players? Possibly

The players not listening? I doubt it when most of them said they wanted to work with Ramos.

Juande just doesn't know what he's doing?? Who knows

 

[Hoowl]

I'm not saying there is any evidence that he will get us anywhere. My point is that we need to break this cycle of changing manager every time we have a run of losses. We shouldn't have sacked Jol when we did, yet many fans were calling for him to go. Now we have fans calling for Ramos to go as well. Who next, and how long do they have before we jump on there back. We have to stick with someone sooner or later. I'd rather it was sooner, not because of who Ramos is, or what he has done, but because if we don't do it now I don't see when we will do it.

The board should have had more faith in Jol because he had provided significant evidence that he could deliver. It's different with Ramos, he hasn't shown that.

The squad clearly isn't up to it. A new manager isn't going to come in and turn this around with a whip of a wand. Is another manager going to be able to attract better players in January to give us the options we need? Will another manager be backed more than Ramos? I honestly can't see how changing the manager now will be of benefit to the team. If someone was to come in now, the squad would be in the same position, we still wouldn't have a midfield capable of creating chances for our strikers, and we still wouldn't have strikers capable of creating chances for themselves. So the new manager would suffer the same as Ramos, after how many games would we get on his back?

I think the squad may not be up to challenging the top 4 but it's a damn site better than 20th. For all the lack of balance I truely believe that another manager could have this team in the top half of the table.

 

[Flatters]

I will always give my complete support to anyone who currently works for Tottenham Hotspur.

Judging by this thread and most others on here though, It may only be me and you giving our full support to everyone at the club on Sunday, Nick, along with a handful of others.

 

[Hoowl]

I will always give my complete support to anyone who currently works for Tottenham Hotspur.

Judging by this thread and most others on here though, It may only be me and you giving our full support to everyone at the club on Sunday, Nick, along with a handful of others.

On a matchday I will give my full support, I've stated that a couple of times in this thread.

 

[nicdic]

But, how long do we allow this situation to continue until he has to go? That's the thing.

This isn't a short-term thing, we finished 11th last season which was poor as well. As SS57 said we've been poor since Xmas really, I know we won the cup and won 5-1 against the scum, but these things masked over a bad season league wise - and this season it seems there are no masks to work for us. Not if last night was anything to go by!!

I really wanted Ramos to be great, but the gets it wrong with the team choice and the formation is pretty much every game! He doesn't seem to be learning from his mistakes.

He's trying difference things every week with regards to the team, because nothing is working. No matter which players he puts out, we're playing just as bad. I don't think it's for lack of trying. We have many players performing well below par, and many still settling in.

Ramos came to a club that were in a bad place last year, the cup win was brilliant considering. Last year our form never really improved, I don't deny that. I was expecting him to build over the summer, and us have a decent team ready to go. Can we honestly say we have built over the summer? I'd say not, we lost our two most influential players, and replaced one of them with a guy who undoubtedly will take time to settle. Did we address the main problems in midfield? No, we bought two more right sided players rather than a left sided player, and we didn't buy a leader for the middle. That said the signing of Modric was one we were crying out for, he will take time to settle, and I believe he's starting to show his worth.

Ramos cannot be totally to blame. He's had to completely rework the team after the losses of Berbatov and Keane. Levy and Comoli have screwed up big time, I'm not sure anyone could do much better with what we have available.

 

[sunnydelight786]

I will always give my complete support to anyone who currently works for Tottenham Hotspur.

Judging by this thread and most others on here though, It may only be me and you giving our full support to everyone at the club on Sunday, Nick, along with a handful of others.

You can add me to that list of support too... As much as I loved Jol, the man has gone. JR has my full backing, yes I may question some of his line ups but that does not change the fact that I'm 100% behind him, JJ, DC, DL and anyone else connected to THFC!!!

 

[WhiteStripe]

I actually think that our squad is up to it, I said in another thread that there are at least 7 teams with squads worse than ours, Bolton, Stoke, Hull, WBA etc. I want Ramos to succeed desperately for the good of our club but here is my main problem:

There is no evidence at all of us improving the way that we're playing, we look like complete strangers on the pitch with no clue or direction as to what we're doing. Even with new players I'd expect us to start resembling something of a team unit, but we don't. We don't seem to have any clear philosophy on the type of football that we're supposed to be playing.

Now why is this?

Players not good enough? I think they are.

Lacking in confidence? Maybe, but what about last season where still didn't seem to be playing with much pattern.

Ramos unable to get his point across to the players? Possibly

The players not listening? I doubt it when most of them said they wanted to work with Ramos.

Juande just doesn't know what he's doing?? Who knows

Sorry, had to quote you, as I couldn't read it the first time due to your avatar consuming my attention!!:hump:

I think in there somewhere you have made a good point....we don't seem to know what style of football we are playing, ramos obviously has his opinion, but this is not coming across on the pitch (unless ramos is really awful, which i think we know he isn't).

We need to go back to basics, organise the team, convey this to the players, and stick with (as much as we can) the same players week in week out!

 

[Dougal]

You can add me to that list of support too... As much as I loved Jol, the man has gone. JR has my full backing, yes I may question some of his line ups but that does not change the fact that I'm 100% behind him, JJ, DC, DL and anyone else connected to THFC!!!

Ramos and the team have my backing. Levy has my money. Comolli can fuck right off.

 

[There's always next year]

If you were being paid £5m a year to run a multi million pound business and you had not got one sale since March last year,then you'll be down that road long before now. Ramos is no different. Forget the excuses, the man is out of his depth, culturally, socially and tactically. When is he going to address the media in english,as we can never take anything he is saying at face value.

If I were Levy, I would have no hesitation in sacking him in the next 30 minutes. It does not matter who replaces him, because it just cannot be any worse than what we currently have.

 

[nicdic]

Ramos and the team have my backing. Levy has my money. Comolli can fuck right off.

Yeah...