Wenger

[danielneeds]

Its obviously very hard to discuss the merits of Wenger on a Spurs board because of the emotive feelings that them lot up the road bring out in us.

Whilst Fergie will clearly go down in history as the greatest manager ever to grace the English game, Wenger is an utterly brilliant coach, footballing philosopher, and a terrible loser (much like Fergie). The fact is though that he embodies everything Bill Nic and Blanchflower were thinking of when they talked about the glory game, and we can only curse our luck that he ended up at the club he did.

 

[Durrrr]

Single handedly changed English football. Think he's the greatest manager in the world, in fact by some distance.

This*1million

LOL at Fergie being the best. He was so lucky. Stealing all the best youngsters - this wouldnt be allowed now... Managing at, by far the richest club in the league for 15-20 years. Wenger was handicapped at Arsenal (still is) and he still won the double twice, fa cup countless times etc...

The 03/04 Arsenal team is imo, probably the best football team ever to play the game.

 

[Durrrr]

Could your gran have won 2 league titles, the UEFA Cup, The Champions League, the Portuguese Cup and the Portuguese Super Cup with FC Porto? He did everything is his first full season at Porto too.

For Chelsea yes he did spend mony but he was also told he had to make Chelsea the best team in the country straight away. 2 straight league title, an FA Cup and 2 league cups is still Chelseas best ever era. If it is so easy why have so many other talented managers failed?

He's currently on target to win his 2nd league title with Inter. Everywhere he has been he has been hugely successful and as a result he is respected as one of the best in the world.

The idea that he's nothing special because Chelsea gave him money to spend is beyond ridiculous.

I'm not knocking Mourinho as I think he is a great manager and in a heart beat I would obv want him at Spurs tomorrow if possible. But him winning two league titles in Italy with Inter in the current state of affairs over there isn't an achievement imho. Both Milan and Juve were severely punished after the match fixing scandal and Inter was there to clean up.

 

[barry]

This*1million

LOL at Fergie being the best. He was so lucky. Stealing all the best youngsters - this wouldnt be allowed now... Managing at, by far the richest club in the league for 15-20 years. Wenger was handicapped at Arsenal (still is) and he still won the double twice, fa cup countless times etc...

The 03/04 Arsenal team is imo, probably the best football team ever to play the game.

What the fuck is this. Do you support the Scum. This is fucking awful. This is the worst thing I've ever read on this forum. My god. Awful. Jesus. Bloody hell. Good god man I think your on the wrong board, Arsenal mania is that way. Jesus.Fuck sake man, show some restraint. Jesus. No true Spurs fan could write this. "*1million", really. "The best football team ever to play the game", My god. Jesus. This truly is embarrassing. There's a difference between appreciating what he's done and this sycophantic tripe, learn it. My god. Fuck me.

 

[barry]

Can I just say jesus again

 

[Bus-Conductor]

When I started this thread I knew of course that you'd get some idiotic posts that made no effort to actually apply rationale or logic.

SAF and Mourinho are both fantastic managers, of that there is no question. They both proved their quality at clubs like Aberdeen and Porto where money was not the major factor.

Both have proved again and again that they are great tacticians and thinkers.

People saying Wenger hasn't achieved much lately are completely ignoring some glaring factors. When Arsenal committed to spending nearly 400 million on a new stadium Wenger's philosophy - already a prudent one - of concentrating on coaching rather than simply buying was tested to the extreme.

Personally I think the fact that he has maintained CL football throughout this period, played the best football in the EPL (again some will argue perfectly validly what qualifies as the best football), reached a CL final and would surely have won a trophy but for his (correct IMO) stance of playing kids at most rounds of domestic cups, speaks volumes for the man's abilities as a coach.

Three of SAF's team cost nearly 90m (Ferdinand, Rooney, Berbatov). I'd hazard a guess that Arsenal current first team probably cost less than 2/3 this this to assemble.

Wenger has also had to rebuild a side but on a shoestring, yet there they are playing great football, winning consistently and challenging for every major competition most years and getting stronger as these kids progress.

Anybody who slags him off, or more importantly slags off spurs fans who express admiration for Wenger display an ignorance of our club, because for as long as I can remember our philosophy - sometimes to our cost but always to our credit - has always been the same as Wenger's.

There is a lot of bollocks spoken about spurs fans and their delusions of grandeur but the truth is it is playing football with style and panache has always been in the DNA of our club. It is why this club is still famous around the world, why people like Edgar Davids wanted to come here. Because throughout our history we have always tried - and sometimes succeeded - to play the same way that Wenger believes the game should be played.

 

[jamesc0le]

what bc just said



but the original article was a fucking horrible read, i did indeed give up halfway.
what a fucking atrocious use and expression of the english lang.

 

[spursphil]

When I started this thread I knew of course that you'd get some idiotic posts that made no effort to actually apply rationale or logic.

SAF and Mourinho are both fantastic managers, of that there is no question. They both proved their quality at clubs like Aberdeen and Porto where money was not the major factor.

Both have proved again and again that they are great tacticians and thinkers.

People saying Wenger hasn't achieved much lately are completely ignoring some glaring factors. When Arsenal committed to spending nearly 400 million on a new stadium Wenger's philosophy - already a prudent one - of concentrating on coaching rather than simply buying was tested to the extreme.

Personally I think the fact that he has maintained CL football throughout this period, played the best football in the EPL (again some will argue perfectly validly what qualifies as the best football), reached a CL final and would surely have won a trophy but for his (correct IMO) stance of playing kids at most rounds of domestic cups, speaks volumes for the man's abilities as a coach.

Three of SAF's team cost nearly 90m (Ferdinand, Rooney, Berbatov). I'd hazard a guess that Arsenal current first team probably cost less than 2/3 this this to assemble.

Wenger has also had to rebuild a side but on a shoestring, yet there they are playing great football, winning consistently and challenging for every major competition most years and getting stronger as these kids progress.

Anybody who slags him off, or more importantly slags off spurs fans who express admiration for Wenger display an ignorance of our club, because for as long as I can remember our philosophy - sometimes to our cost but always to our credit - has always been the same as Wenger's.

There is a lot of bollocks spoken about spurs fans and their delusions of grandeur but the truth is it is playing football with style and panache has always been in the DNA of our club. It is why this club is still famous around the world, why people like Edgar Davids wanted to come here. Because throughout our history we have always tried - and sometimes succeeded - to play the same way that Wenger believes the game should be played.

There is alot of good stuff in your posts, but i would have to disagree with the Wenger love in im afraid.

One of the biggest myths in football is the bollox of Wenger building a team on a shoestring budget..... in fact his playing budget last year was a Massive £110 million. hardly shoestring no matter how much he carps on about not having the funds to compete.

His £110 million a year wage budget is amounst the highest in World football, only bettered in England by Man utd £121 and Chelsea £172 million.
Liverpools £90 million wage bill not far behind. Spurs have a wage bill of £53 million just for the record.

I can't knock Wenger due to his style of play but i think he got lucky by inheriting Arsenals famous back four and enjoying the Champions league money pit at the same time, hardly a surprise he maintained CL Football while holding all the cards.
But his lack of European success despite being in the CL every year is evident. Its also no surprise Arsenal have won squat in the past 5 years after the last of Grahams defenders left the club.

 

[leffe186]

I don't understand that. As far as i can tell, Arsenal are the only team he has really changed. Nobody else has the same set up as Arsenal in England.

If anyone changed football in this country it was Bill Nicholson. He was the one who introduced push and run style football to England.

As for being the best in the world, well considering the players he has at his disposal, you would expect a trophey in the last 5 years.

At most i would say he's the best coach to younger players. Other than that, tactically he falls short of Sir Alex and Jose Mourinho.

Arthur Rowe, man, Arthur Rowe.

"If you know your history, it's enough to make your Arthur Rooooooowe"

 

[mil1lion]

I rate Wenger highly. I just don't think he is the very best. He's one of the best, but just falls short when it matters. His Arsenal team is full of world class players, so they should be winning trophies, no excuses.

His biggest downfall is, his teams still struggle to grind out certain results. that's why they have struggled to win the League for several years now. Where Chelsea and Man Utd can scrape to a 1-0 victory, Arsenal struggle somewhat. Although they have done pretty well in those games this season.

I admire the style of football his teams play. But you can't play that way all the time. Even Barca know how to work without the ball now. They realised that it takes more than possession football to be successful, especially in the Champions League. Sometimes Wenger just needs to bring on a defensive player and see out a game.

I don't like saying it, because i love football to be played the good way. But that doesn't hide from the fact that there are a number of teams who see things differently. We're in the results business. Sir Alex knows this, and that's why he is so successful. His teams can grind through games. The same could be said for Mourinho, and we saw the perfect example last night.

For all the talent of a Rooney, Berbatov, Drogba and Lampard. You still need the likes of Fletcher, Park, Essien and Mikel to add balance. I feel that Wenger has been missing these type of players in recent years. Why on earth he didn't take Palacios and loan him out for his 1st season i have no idea. He is exactly the type of player they need. Thank god he didn't take him.

Arsene Wenger, a great manager i admit. But the best? Not quiete.

 

[Luka Lennon]

There is alot of good stuff in your posts, but i would have to disagree with the Wenger love in im afraid.

One of the biggest myths in football is the bollox of Wenger building a team on a shoestring budget..... in fact his playing budget last year was a Massive £110 million. hardly shoestring no matter how much he carps on about not having the funds to compete.

His £110 million a year wage budget is amounst the highest in World football, only bettered in England by Man utd £121 and Chelsea £172 million.
Liverpools £90 million wage bill not far behind. Spurs have a wage bill of £53 million just for the record.

I can't knock Wenger due to his style of play but i think he got lucky by inheriting Arsenals famous back four and enjoying the Champions league money pit at the same time, hardly a surprise he maintained CL Football while holding all the cards.
But his lack of European success despite being in the CL every year is evident. Its also no surprise Arsenal have won squat in the past 5 years after the last of Grahams defenders left the club.

good stuff :clap:

 

[barry]

There is alot of good stuff in your posts, but i would have to disagree with the Wenger love in im afraid.

One of the biggest myths in football is the bollox of Wenger building a team on a shoestring budget..... in fact his playing budget last year was a Massive £110 million. hardly shoestring no matter how much he carps on about not having the funds to compete.

His £110 million a year wage budget is amounst the highest in World football, only bettered in England by Man utd £121 and Chelsea £172 million.
Liverpools £90 million wage bill not far behind. Spurs have a wage bill of £53 million just for the record.

I can't knock Wenger due to his style of play but i think he got lucky by inheriting Arsenals famous back four and enjoying the Champions league money pit at the same time, hardly a surprise he maintained CL Football while holding all the cards.
But his lack of European success despite being in the CL every year is evident. Its also no surprise Arsenal have won squat in the past 5 years after the last of Grahams defenders left the club.

:clap: exactly

 

[Durrrr]

Love to see where you got your figures from Spurs phil.

thx

 

[spursphil]

Love to see where you got your figures from Spurs phil.

thx

You only have to google Arsenal accounts but here's a summery.

http://www.arsenaltrust.org/uploaded/accounts/AFCaccountscommentNov09.doc

Dated july 2009 and its estimated that the wage bill has gone up by 8-10% since then with improved deals.

Man citys wage bill has gone up from £54 million to a whopping £105 million. And west hams last accounts showed a wage bill of £64 million.