We've had the arguments, speculate what you think will be the Olympic stadium outcome

Discussion in 'The New Stadium' started by stevenqoz, Jan 16, 2011.

What do you speculate will be the Olympic bid outcome and ramifications

Poll closed Jan 28, 2011.
  1. West Ham win bid and build it. Spurs build NDP

    25 vote(s)
    22.5%
  2. West Ham win bid and build it. Spurs don’t build NDP

    13 vote(s)
    11.7%
  3. West Ham win bid but don’t do it and Spurs get invited to rebid and build it at OS

    3 vote(s)
    2.7%
  4. West Ham win bid but don’t do it and Spurs get invited to rebid but don’t and stay at WHL

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. West Ham win bid but don’t do it and Spurs get invited to rebid but don’t and build NDP

    5 vote(s)
    4.5%
  6. Spurs win bid and build at OS

    45 vote(s)
    40.5%
  7. Spurs win bid but build at NDP

    9 vote(s)
    8.1%
  8. Spurs win bid but build nowhere

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. Spurs win bid but redevelop at WHL

    5 vote(s)
    4.5%
  10. Spurs win bid and ground-share with West Ham

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. Goat

    6 vote(s)
    5.4%
  1. Samson

    Samson Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,154
    Ratings Received:
    +337 / 64 / -25
    At some point this year, a senior Conservative politician, presumably Boris, encouraged Tottenham to bid. Whether they will live with the fallout from no track is another question, but they obviously didn't fancy the West Ham bid.
     
  2. sherbornespurs

    sherbornespurs Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,868
    Ratings Received:
    +2,535 / 53 / -35
    West Ham win the Olympic stadium.

    THFC unwilling to load the club with debt in order to stay in Tottenham.

    ENIC sell up on the basis they've taken us as far as they can.
     
  3. andyw362

    andyw362 New Member

    Messages:
    993
    Ratings Received:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    The public will soon realise that 500m has been wasted on a stadium that is not fit for any purpose.
     
  4. cabinfever

    cabinfever Cabinfever's blue and white army

    Messages:
    1,392
    Ratings Received:
    +514 / 7 / -6
    2nd post

    1st post

    Is there a pattern here? :wink:
     
  5. dickyid

    dickyid In Exile

    Messages:
    1,448
    Ratings Received:
    +143 / 1 / -2
    What about spurs win bid, build NPD, build OS and rent it to west ham, they officially become 'our bitches', karren brady publicly humiliated, porn Daves both bankrupted by their transparent plan to nick the OS and flog Upton Park to property developers, and we win the league?
     
  6. dickyid

    dickyid In Exile

    Messages:
    1,448
    Ratings Received:
    +143 / 1 / -2
    You are David Lammy and I claim my £5.

    Shouldn't you be out fiddling expenses or something?
     
  7. ryantegan

    ryantegan Block 33 Season Ticket holder :)

    Messages:
    5,998
    Ratings Received:
    +18,813 / 180 / -88
    its only a tempory structure. it is always going to be demolished to some extent whether we get it, Spam get it or it remains in the hands of uk athletics.

    The truth is, if we get it, we will become willing scapegoats for the organisers. They are responsible for the fact it is a waste of 1/2 bllion pounds
     
  8. dickyid

    dickyid In Exile

    Messages:
    1,448
    Ratings Received:
    +143 / 1 / -2
    The 1/2 billion figure, does that includes things like the cycle track, pool, infrastructure, draining the land, putting foundations big enoughnto support massive stadia and swimming pools, transport links etc. or is it just the one stadium itself?
     
  9. Lilbaz

    Lilbaz Just call me Baz

    Messages:
    26,504
    Ratings Received:
    +39,467 / 734 / -238
    Nope that's covered in the £9bn budget. :eek:mg:
     
  10. 3Dnata

    3Dnata Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,879
    Ratings Received:
    +1,460 / 15 / -9
    I get the feeling the powers that be don't like our bid for the OS.
    I'd rather stay in the WHL for purely emotional reasons.
    I think it will go to West Ham and I can't imagine it being anything but a disaster. Maybe in a few years Orient or Dagenham will buy them out.
    I can't see West Ham having the money but if people like Coe are involved they may get the bid.
     
  11. Mattspur

    Mattspur Do Mattspur

    Messages:
    3,646
    Media:
    1
    Albums:
    1
    Ratings Received:
    +4,442 / 175 / -33
    I think with all the people speaking out against our proposals and the weekly "it's not fair, it was supposed to be ours" from West Ham. We're nailed on certs to win this bid.

    I think the really interesting thing in all this is that West Ham fans are, in a huge majority, against the move. Spurs fans, in a huge majority, are open to it.

    The only people that want it to go to WH are old olympians, the WH board and a few Spurs fans.

    The more I think about this situation i realise I support the club, not the area.
     
  12. HodisGawd

    HodisGawd Active Member

    Messages:
    423
    Ratings Received:
    +401 / 27 / -2
    Exactly right. The OS is just a pop-up stadium, and no-one really wants it for a good reason - it's crap. We're the good guys here. We can use the transport links, athletics can't.

    Athletics needs to know it's place - about 20th on this country's list of most popular sports.
     
  13. MisterC

    MisterC Member

    Messages:
    197
    Ratings Received:
    +27 / 1 / -2
    From Glory Glory

    :eek:mg:
    Interesting article from the spammers

    Speaking with the Enemy
    Posted by Billy Blagg 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
    Well it was the season of peace and goodwill towards men – providing I take the King James’ version rather than James Moffatt’s ‘goodwill towards those whom he favours’ that I seemed to hear continually over the past month. I’m not sure any of us ‘favours’ talking to a Spurs supporter but that was what I found myself doing on New Years Day - and I have to say I found the result of that conversation deeply disturbing.

    I need to get three things straight here before I continue: Firstly, this article isn’t primarily concerned with the rights and wrongs of West Ham’s attempts to move into the Olympic Stadium post 2012. I will say, in my opinion, despite all the inherent problems – and there are a lot of them – not considering at least a move to the site itself would be a major mistake but, this though is more about what happens if we don’t do anything or, as it seems a majority of West Ham supporters seem to indicate, simply shelve the plans and think on developing Upton Park..

    Secondly, I am not claiming that the bloke I spoke too is a Tottenham shareholder or any type of mover and shaker in the Spurs hierarchy; This is not intended to be a ‘I met a man who knows a man… ‘ type tale. All that I can say for certain is he is the type of powerful businessman whose ideas and requirements are courted by football clubs nowadays and he seemed to know people who are influential and, more importantly, believed his thoughts mirrored those of a lot of his contemporaries. I do know I was sober though and I wasn’t suckered into anything.

    Finally, as if regulars didn’t know, I was weaned on the pre-Heysel / Hillsborough days of suicidal tackles, silly haircuts and a belief that anyone could win the league. I find much of Premiership football to be distasteful and, at times, bizarre so I’ll admit that perhaps I’m just being naïve in finding this Spurs supporter's views disturbing. Nevertheless, his thoughts were from an angle I’d genuinely not thought about and I found them both fascinating and aggravating in equal measure. Those who think Tottenham fans have ideas above their station my not want to read on.

    Rather ironically, I wouldn’t say this Tottenham supporter had much ill-feeling towards the Hammers, worse, I actually found his views patronising, as if the club at the Boleyn was a minor irritant that needed to be dealt with without undue fuss. His belief that Spurs were now a fully-fledged member of the top-table Champions League set-up will only be confirmed with time, I guess but it would have been churlish to pretend there is any immediate likelihood of them scrapping down the bottom with the Irons so I let any discussion on the footballing merits of one side against the other pass.

    I obviously don’t want to quote this guy verbatim – I couldn’t anyway – so I’m just going to paraphrase his comments.

    ‘I’m a Spurs supporter and always have been, I was born in North London and used to go and watch them when I was a boy.’
    Fair enough, I’ve always been dismissive of glory hunters and at least this bloke’s prepared to nail his colours somewhere.

    ‘I only watch them on TV now or in a corporate environment. I’d never buy a ticket for a seat to a match on my own or with friends as that’s not what football is about nowadays’.
    An anathema to many, but I’d say it’s the price that football has paid for all-seater stadia and rocketing entry prices. Many of us have been forced out of a regular match-day experience although the use of the word ‘never’ makes me uncomfortable.

    ‘I need to take business associates and prospective clients to matches. White Hart Lane is difficult to get too and, anyway, I don’t need to see Spurs in North London. The Olympic Stadium is on all available road and rail routes, isn’t far from the City and Canary Wharf and is big enough to accommodate the crowds Spurs could attract. I’m not bothered about staying in North London, football is a global game now and I’m not interested about where a team is based. It’s easier for me but, more importantly, makes it easier for me to use the club for corporate entertainment.’
    This is where I start feeling uncomfortable. I know few people who still reside in West Ham or even the Borough of Newham but I still believe if we disassociate the club from the area it represents then we’re at the thin edge of a miniscule wedge.

    I’m not condoning or trying to glamorize the football violence of the ‘70’s / 80’s but, back then, the taking of another club’s ‘manor’ or ‘end’ was a crime on a par with anything Gary Glitter can admit too. Here, at a stroke, Tottenham will not only be in our manor they will relegate the Hammers to a bit part in our own backyard. Spurs moving to Stratford would be a kick in the teeth that many of us would simply find unacceptable. There are no shades of grey on this for me; Spurs should not even contemplate moving into another club’s heartland. But then I’d taken that as a given, not only in terms of what West Ham supporters would want but also those from Tottenham. This fan was suggesting - and I’ll admit I was genuinely surprised by his vehemence that, although there was a groundswell of fans who found the idea of leaving North London abhorrent, there were an equal, if not greater, number for whom THFC was now a ‘brand’ and’ as such, could not only sit where it wanted but had a rightful stake in what would be one of the UK’s premier sporting arenas.

    ‘The Olympic site is a massive incentive to Spurs. The main investors in the club want to move there and they are putting an awful lot of money into the project. There’s a lot going on behind the scenes and there is no way we’d miss out to a club like West Ham.’
    OK resisting the temptation to wrap a bottle round the bloke’s head but this was the part that bothered. No names were mentioned and I’d admit that if it was so much flannel I’d probably not even know, but there dark rumblings about political machinations going on at this point. It wasn’t only the large financial muscle that could be thrown behind this bid but also the suggestion that serious pressure was being given in Government and Olympic circles that bothered me.

    (N.b Since writing this it has come to light that that Boris Johnson himself may have suggested Spurs bid for the Stadium so there was something in that)

    What’s worse though is the entirely new concept that I’ve not seen elsewhere that suggests that not doing anything is no longer an option for West Ham United.

    Let’s say that West Ham listen to a majority of fans and decide they don’t want a stadium they can’t fill with a running track they don’t want and pull out of the Stratford bid. Does this leave Spurs an open season on the site? Of course, Lord Coe and the Olympic Committee are very quick to point out the legacy promise of the site and suggestions that Tottenham may pull down the Stadium at Stratford, rebuild another purpose-built football arena and make everyone happy by also building a nice new Athletics track at Crystal Palace have already been dismissed as ‘unacceptable’. But that suggests that the site will remain empty and the trouble for me is that if I agree with that notion then I’m contradicting an argument I’ve been putting up since this move was first mooted.

    Simply put, I’d say ‘Remember the Dome’. A massive legacy site post-Millennium this was going to be one of the major highlights for a visitor to London back in 1997. By 2002, it was a white elephant that came that close to being hauled down before being successful resurrected as one of the UK’s top venues. Now the O2 is a great place, and I’d never argue otherwise, but the old ‘Millennium Dome’ became an embarrassment initially and was within a whisker of even worse. We may all be proud, flag-waving supporters of the World’s biggest sporting event now but wait until all you can hear on the Stratford site is the trains running to Liverpool Street and then see how bullish the Politicians and Committees are then!

    Public opinion, Government influence and political machinations count for everything nowadays. If neither West Ham nor Spurs won the right to play football at the Olympic site and the area becomes a Ghost Town as happened in North Greenwich then can you imagine how that will play politically? I’ve argued long and hard that post-2012 it will be much easier to deal with legacy promises, in fact I long-ago suggested on this very site that West Ham could probably build their own purpose built stadium there alongside the Athletics area and was roundly turned on by people saying it was a waste of money and it would never happen.

    It may not, of course, yet here we have Tottenham Hotspur PLC suggesting that very thing and – you know? – when large Jewish owned UK corporations start to put the pressure on, doesn’t it look different from the usual posturing of any of West Ham’s recent boardroom combatants?

    This conversation left me feeling decidedly uncomfortable. I’d long assumed that, if a move to the Olympic site were to take place, then it would only be by West Ham United. Failure by the Hammers to reach agreement on the stadium would leave it empty. This corporate raider’s suggestion that the Spur’s hierarchy see this as being on a par with Arsenal’s move to the Emirates is deeply concerning. Would the FA get involved? Of course, they should but why haven’t they already? Is it conceivable that someone hasn’t already sounded them out before Spurs started investing in proposals for the mood? It seems extremely unlikely. My guess is the FA will prove as toothless against the powerbrokers as everyone else.

    The proposed Olympic site is close to my heart. I’ve long argued – in ‘Nightmare’ as well as here – that, for decades, West Ham’s previous boardroom owners have let down both club and fans by failing to realise the enormity of the Hammer’s catchment area. With proper investment 40 or 50 years ago, West Ham could have been the first big team of choice for an area sweeping out in a triangle from East London to the far borders of Essex and Kent. The Olympic site is an opportunity to change that.

    But and that BUT is huge, If we don’t move there then Spurs may occupy the very spot that West Ham should be taking, what then?. Think on from there; if that were to happen what is the point of West Ham being an east London club situated in Newham at all? We may as well sell-up and move to Dartford or Basildon – anywhere away from that bloody roundabout off the Newham By-pass would help surely? I mean, we could easily be the biggest club in Essex and that is one of the largest counties. Essex Hammers FC anyone?

    Now, I don’t want and I suspect most of you lot don’t either but, be assured, that could well happen if Spurs attempts to become a muscular MK Dons succeed. I think us fans should be mobilised for what could be a very nasty fight. It may not come to it hopefully – but if it does then we need to be ready. And, to be honest, from what I’ve seen on this and other sites, I’m not sure many of us are!
     
  14. MisterC

    MisterC Member

    Messages:
    197
    Ratings Received:
    +27 / 1 / -2
    Ref: DubaiSpur

    "Just to explain I didn't right this however what a piece"

    This is shaping up to be a real battle to win hearts and minds. A full-scale propaganda war pitting THFC plc against its dissenting fans, UK Athletics, the odious David Lammy, West Ham, and Newham Council, with the government an interested onlooker. Each side has already displayed an unappealing side to their personas; Daniel Levy and the Spurs board have angered Haringey businesses and communities by arbitrarily and possibly deceitfully buying up land for the stadium that they now indicate they will not use, with the aid of CPOs. UK Athletics persists in its brainless delusions that Athletics in the UK is a massive sport that is capable of drawing 60,000 spectators to every irregular event they host, and refuse to see any reason whatsoever, babbling on about legacies and promises. David Lammy is using the entire issue to raise his profile and detract attention from his second-home claims being exposed, and is shamelessly threatening to sue the club he purports to support. West Ham, along with their parroting idiot in Karren Brady, have slandered Tottenham Hotspur’s bid at every opportunity, spinng lies and falsehoods while trying desperately to cover up their own vast financial inadequacies. And Tottenham’s own supporters have taken to an element of tribal divisions, splitting into pro and anti-Stratford clans, hurling abuse and accusing each other of not being supporters at all. The government itself has to remain neutral, but undoubtedly does so with a degree of support for Tottenham’s bid;after all, it’s in their interests to ensure that their own mindless lack of foresight does not become one of the biggest white elephants in the capital, again. It was the previous government’s stupidity to believe that UK Athletics could live up to its bold projections of attendance for its events, and that a running track around the ground would be perfectly acceptable to all parties. As for the West ham bid, the financial risks of that pack of cards actually taking over the stadium are enormous in the least, and preposterously dangerous in the extreme. However, as this excellent article points out, that fact is hidden behind a spinning web of crowd-peasing accusations, snarling, rabble-rousing rhetoric and arguments that serve only to highlight the severe lack of logic in political discourse today. Worse still, the sane, sensible arguments seem to have no place on an issue such as this. From the fans point of view, understandable-football is raw emotion fused into sport, and it is perfectly natural for supporters of the great game to be dictated by the heart, not the head. Tradition, culture, rivalries, passion, history-all these things matter to a supporter. But for emotional, factless arguments to be used by the major parties involved is mind-boggling. UK athletics with its delusional pride and inflated sense of self-worth arrogantly believing their own ‘build it and they will come’ mantra, david Lammy with his hollow, frothing rants about history and the local community, all of which are negated by his having a second home outside Haringey, West Ham with their unbelievably childish tantrums, an example being ‘Tottenham are parking their tanks on our lawn’, and Tottenham Hotspur’s own rather empty words about putting supporters first and foremost. The simple facts are as follows-
    1)Tottenham need a new ground.
    2)West Ham need a new ground.
    3)The cobwebbed protectors of crumbling buildings no-one gives a flying fuck about, English Heritage, coupled with CABE, Transport for London, Haringey Council and the like, have driven up costs for the Northumberland Development Project. Mind you, not the stadium alone, which retains the same cost, more or less, but the project, which encompasses the hotel, supermarket and 150 homes associated with it. The original stadium capacity is cut by 4000, the hotel is forced to reduce the number of floors, and the number of homes is reduced to 150, all to satisfy the dim-witted EH. Tottenham are furious.
    4)An 80,000 seater stadium is being built in nearby Stratford, which the government plans to lease out for 200 years to the most worthy interested party.
    5)West Ham see an ideal opportunity to expand, or David and Gold see an opportunity to move into a cut-price stadium and sell the original land around the Boleyn Ground for their own profit. They put in a joint bid with Newham Council.
    6)Tottenham apply for governmunt funding to aid the payment of the rising costs for the project, citing succesful government aid given to Arsenal for the Emirates and the FA for Wembley. The government refuse to provide any. Tottenham even more furious.
    7)Tottenham see an opportunity to pressure Haringey council and the government on their lack of support and funding for the project. A bid is put in for the OS. Chairman Daniel Levy writes an open letter to the fans, emphasizing that he is a fan too.
    8)West Ham now send storms of abuse at Tottenham about their locality, their lack of local support, and even at one stage, threaten riots around East London if tottenham are granted the stadium.
    9)Haringey Council, and especially David Lammy, who hitherto was absolutely invisible and of no help whatsoever when EH and CABE were squeezing Tottenham’s proverbials, express outrage and disappointment at the decision. Tottenham fans console themselves that the club is merely hedging its bets.
    10)Tottenham enlist AEG’s support for the bid. AEG claims that Tottenham will announce the OS as the primary venue if succesful. Tottenham also start hiring ex-Athletics Council and Olympic Bid Committee members. Unease grows that Tottenham may actually scrap the NDP altogether.
    11)Tottenham’s bid details are revealed.
    12) Tottenham’s bid provides solid proof that their 60,000-seater stadium, that they say they will build on the rubble of the original Olympic Stadium, which they plan to tear down after 2012,will be filled every week, judging by the season ticket waiting lists(which are misleading;every new One Hotspur Bronze, Silver, Gold or Platinum member gets put on the list, whether they want a season ticket or not;ergo, the 34,000), as well as provide assurances on the state of their quite healthy finances and a co-partnership with global entertainment giant AEG that will see the stadium facility used for concerts and entertainment events during the off-season to provide even more revenue. They also pledge to build a 25,000 seater athletics only venue (which was the original plan for the OS) in Crystal Palace with funding from their own pockets, with an option to expand it to 40,000 if the UK win the right to host the 2017 Athletics World Championship. They emphasize that the athletics track is damaging to the fan experience, which is why they plan to tear down the entire structure and build their originally planned NDP stadium on the site instead.
    13)Details about West Ham’s bid seem difficult to come by, save for the fact that they will preserve the track, make only minor changes to the OS’s superstructure, and are confident of filling it, though where these extra 30,000 fans will come from remains a mystery. They keep mum about their finances.
    14)UK Athletics dismiss Tottenham’s bid out of hand, evidence of their anger over the scrapping of the Athletics track.
    15)Fans are furious about Tottenham’s by-now very real interest in the Stratford option. Cue bitter debates, both in pubs and online.
    16)We Are N17 pops up as a protest movement against the proposed move to Stratford.
    17)David Lammy now embarks on a cruasade of bile-filled rhetoric, claiming some sort of attachment to the club, disappointment over its behaviour, and threatening legal action and the forcible removal of the name ‘Tottenham’ from the club’s label if they move to stratford. Club dismiss his accusations as ‘baseless scare-mongering’.
    18)Present day.
    So make your own mind up about events and the circumstances surrounding this powder-keg. The propaganda war is in full swing, and it’s easy to be swayed by one side or another. What’s most important at a time like this is to make your own choice, certainly, and if it involves staying in N17 so be it, but do it based on a reasoned examination of the facts, the circumstances, and your own feelings. Don’t do it based on the by-now intense back-and-forth flame war that all parties are now trying to spark.
     
  15. Mattspur

    Mattspur Do Mattspur

    Messages:
    3,646
    Media:
    1
    Albums:
    1
    Ratings Received:
    +4,442 / 175 / -33
    Not true. Judging by every poll on here over 80% of fans are open to it.
     
  16. mkkid

    mkkid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,903
    Ratings Received:
    +277 / 71 / -31
    Stratford I'm afraid, it's all Been about the money
     
  17. smokesoapbar

    smokesoapbar New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Ratings Received:
    +10 / 0 / -0
    I don't want us to go to Stratford. I want the new place on the same site. However, I'm of the feeling we'll probably win the bid and off we'll go.
     
  18. MattyP

    MattyP Advises to have a beer & sleep with prostitutes

    Messages:
    13,859
    Ratings Received:
    +2,466 / 46 / -12
    Strange, that's the complete opposite to how it felt in the ground today. Say no to Stratford banners in the Park Lane, Shelf and Paxton, very vociferous opposition to it from the Shelf and Park Lane.
     
  19. camaj

    camaj Posting too much

    Messages:
    8,185
    Ratings Received:
    +973 / 124 / -20
    Don't know why some of the options include WHU not building it. Sadly our bid is a bit pathetic from the athletics legacy POV. While I don't think we should keep the track (I don't think it'll make much difference) I think we should stick to the original plans for the OS and build ours on the same site (assuming there's room)
     
  20. spursphil

    spursphil Tottenham To The Bone

    Messages:
    507
    Ratings Received:
    +49 / 0 / -0
    A neutral applying common sense would clearly see that Spurs have the best bid. I just can't see it being aceptable that more taxpayers money would have to be wasted on giving the site to a club £100m in debt and owned by porn barons.
     

Share This Page