Misfit
President of The Niles Crane Fanclub
- May 7, 2006
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- 35,203
What our opponents' fans are saying
- Thread starter ajspurs
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leffe186
Well-Known Member
- Sep 2, 2004
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It's not completely incorrect, but it's probably misleading. He says your plans for a new stadium are definitely shelved, which is kinda true, in so much as Ian Ayre has announced that you're not interested in a new stadium in Stanley Park and would rather upgrade Anfield as part of a wider community upgrade. Much like ourselves. I could make a point about the compliment that pays us (pace Comolli, and Inglethorpe), but I'd be yanking your chain
.I do think what you raise is worth further discussion in this thread - because it's about what opponents' fans are saying!
I'm not surprised to hear that you are an older fan - I am too. Therein lies the problem, I think. Some fans are jealous of other clubs in some ways, and I think it's most often the younger fans or foreign fans (some of them, I hasten to add) who may view their support of a club in a different way to you, or I. That's not to say that older or local fans are "better", but we certainly have a different perspective on things. You're right from one point of view, because it does make no sense to be jealous of any other team, but (1) Jealousy usually doesn't make sense (2) When did sense ever form part of supporting a football club? Most comments on RAWK about Spurs are reasoned and thoughtful. Some of the match thread/kneejerk comments are not, just like any forum. I cannot see how anyone can read some RAWK comments on Spurs and not see an undercurrent of jealousy. I re-iterate, it's a small minority, but it's there.
You say that you support your team for your own personal reasons, and that's a choice you've made for life. I didn't make that choice. I was taken to games by my Dad before I had any idea what "choice" was. An unhealthy part of me doesn't want success to be spread around now, because I only want Spurs fans to witness joy and happiness. It's childish, and unreasonable, but it's part of my gut feelings. Supporting a football club is childish and unreasonable. Ultimately, many of us didn't have a choice about our team. We have almost no control over what our team does. Again, that lack of control over such an important facet of your life can breed jealousy.
I agree with almost all of your first paragraph. The problem I have is that you think Liverpool are unique and better than any other club. Unique? Of course, every single club is. Better? Never. No club is "better" than any other in essence - although they may be better in certain specifics (more trophies, more wins, more commercial income? More local players? Better ticket prices? Less racist fans?). One of the key reasons why Liverpool is so disliked by many - and it clearly is, witness the glee over Suarez - is a perception, rightly or wrongly, that your fans feel you are better. Additionally, a few seem to feel that, by extension, they are better. There is a difference between being proud of your club and thinking your club is better than another. Likewise, there's a difference between being jealous of another club, and jealous of a particular aspect of that club.
Most Liverpool fans are absolutely fine - not least because (a) they're proud of what they are, like all fans (b) they know that it's only a matter of time before they get back up there, because the money is still coming in and the global support is there. That's unique too. Am I jealous of that? Sure. I'd like to generate that amount of money - such as a kit/sponsorship deal second only to Barcelona - despite being mediocre. But I suck it up, for the most part. Some people struggle to do so. I suspect from their reactions that some newer Liverpool fans are struggling to cope with the last few years. Some Arsenal fans are struggling, despite qualifying for every CL I can remember (every one full stop?).
Glad to have you here, btw.
Lilbaz
Just call me Baz
- Apr 1, 2005
- 41,363
- 74,893
There's no real difference between any set of supporters. Some may dislike us more than others just as we dislike west ham more than fulham. Ignore the idiots and try not to be one yourself.
And enjoy the grudging respect we're getting these days, it wont last forever.
And enjoy the grudging respect we're getting these days, it wont last forever.
RichSpur58
Well-Known Member
- Apr 23, 2011
- 2,169
- 1,931
Its all pretty obvious really.
Liverpool are jealous of us because they think weve stolen their thunder, just like I hated newcastle for the same reason in the early 90's.
We like man U because they hover up all the trophies from the goons and chavs and everybody hates leeds.
Liverpool are jealous of us because they think weve stolen their thunder, just like I hated newcastle for the same reason in the early 90's.
We like man U because they hover up all the trophies from the goons and chavs and everybody hates leeds.
StartingPrice
Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
- Feb 13, 2004
- 32,568
- 10,280
I agree with a lot of what you say. I've been a Spurs fan since the age of 9 - let's just say Spurs were preparing for a trip to the old second division. At no stage did I think that I would change my allegiance even though I had no knowledge that the return would be immediate. We had a good ol' team in the late 70's and 80's. Okay, it never matched yours in terms of attainment, but still achieved a bit, and with some style to boot. We never achieved as much as Forest, either - I didn't envy you or them. I get sick of explaining to young Spurs fans that it is right to give United due credit for their achievements and to recognise their financial power - but I just don't get the cringing deference so many seem happy and willing to pay them. When I was growing up, and until well into Beetroot Head's reign, the balance of achievements fell on their side, but not by that much. They had won the most prestigious European trophy, we hadn't but had won three European trophies. They had won more league titles, we had won more FA Cups. But we were both part of the Big 5, and the balance falling slightly in their favour didn't make me in the least bit jealous. With their amazing epoch of success, now, I might get frustrated occasionally, and I often spit blood at Beetroot Head's underhand tactics, total lack of grace and manipulation of match officials, who have fallen over themselves to award incredibly dodgy decisions in their. But I never wanted to be them.
But I think you have missed the point, slightly. The mirth at the expense of some of your fellow Reds fans, is not because they are jealous of us. It is that they are delusional about the current state of the Liverpool team on the pitch. I have read Liverpool fans stating that Bale is not World Class but Suarez is, and in the same breath claiming that Spurs are a one-man team Liverpool aren't - which does kinda beg the question how on Earth are Spurs so far above Liverpool in the league (and on course to finish above them for the 4th season running, then? That type of argument is just plain dumb and astounding in its delusional idiocy. The fact that some Liverpool fans may be jealous, or just plain miffed but unable to turn that against their own club, has been offered in some quarters to explain why so many Liverpool fans are spitting blood at our recent modest success, achieved in the right way, while seemingly less concerned or plain angry at the success of Chelsea and Citeh, achieved via obscene oil wealth
p.s. I should add that us Spurs fans face the exact same accusations of delusion for thinking the club is actually going somewhere, or for not accepting that we are a one-man team preparing to sink to mid-table obscurity once we rightly sell Bale because we are so pathetic to actually be worthy of having any really really good players
Who has gone on there and started trouble? The spurs fan that I've seen on rawk generally comes across as pretty honest and doesn't spout shite like they do. You have to remember most forums have some sort of reference to rawk just for the lols.
Its really surprising that you, a Spurs fan, hold the opinion that the its the Spurs fan who sounds completely honest and reasonable, whereas the LFC supporters are bat-shit crazy. Why could that be?
The funny thing is there's threads on our LFC forum about the delusion of Arsenal/Spurs/Newcastle fans, just as there are ones about RAWK and Liverpool fans on other teams forums. Its the same for every club. Its such a waste of time really I s'pose. Its always the other teams fans who are "deluded" and "wrong" and never their club or forum members/supporters.
Every club and forum has them. Its just that very few people regularly frequent other teams forums so don't notice that they are, essentially, a carbon copy of each other just with the names switched around. I do do this. I enjoy spending time on here, NUFCForum, Gooners World, VillaTalk, RedCafe and PlanetSwans and I can guarantee you that RAWK, not that it matters a jot really does it, has nothing on NUFCs forum/fans to be really petty.
What grinds my gears though, and there's lots of evidence of it in this thread, is when people deliberately go to RAWK to get silly posts that they can then post on their forum to provoke their fans/posters because they know they can get them off RAWK. Funny that despite me, a LFC supporter, stressing that RAWK doesn't realistically convey the average Red's opinion on things, its still that forum that is continually used to mock Liverpool supporters.
There's a thread on RAWK, which I was shocked to see on there (on the other sites fine but shocked with RAWK and their dictator Mods who ban people if they suggest Liverpool aren't the best and biggest club in the country - literally) lavishing praise on Spurs and inparticular AVB. There was about 3 posts on that before the more provocative posts are found and posted and then all the bile comes out.
This very small minority of people posting this bile are grown and mostly intelliegent adults. They know, as well as I, that the overwhelming majority of Liverpool fans don't believe the same things as these idiots on RAWK do. Its almost as if some people get some weird pleasure out of this idea of the deluded and unreasonable LFC fan, as if they actually want to believe thats what all Liverpool supporters think and are like. Like they need to have a reason to hate all LFC supporters.
The other thing I don't get is why Spurs fans inparticular are so bothered about what people on RAWK think? The Geordie forum I frequent has a lot more postings expressing their opinion that Newcastle are as good as Spurs and have as good a chance as them for top 4 next season (thats straight from a current thread btw, they really believe that), yet, nothing about that?
Why does the opinion of LFC supporters about Spurs matter so much to these people? Why does it make them spew hate-filled bile? Were not local rivals like we have with Everton, we don't have a city rivalry like weve always had with Manchester and Man U, and weve never even had a little artificial temporary rivalry like we had with Chavs when we played them in Europe and the Cups all the time in the mid-noughties.
It doesn't make any sense to me and I'd imagine nor most other Liverpool supporters. Its that bad that, although nearly everyone on this forum has been brilliant and dead friendly to me since I joined, for which I am eternally grateful, I've had to put around 20 people on ignore due to hateful abuse for no other reason really than I'm a Liverpool fan (they wouldn't admit that).
Its just mad to me considering we've never really had a heated rivalry for anything. I've always seen Spurs as a respected friend who do things the right way as a club, and must be admired for how they've climbed their way into the top 4, and an Allie against the oil money sugar daddies who have simply bought there way out of obscurity to the top of the table shitting on us both along the way.
I've never been bothered about other clubs or their fans. My opinion was always to just let the club do its talking on the pitch and trophy cabinet. The only time I get angry about what other supporters say or think is when its to do with the 96, or that they are factually incorrect on purpose about LFC to suit a certain point or agenda their pushing.
The tribalism that is present in modern football is one of the many things I detest about the present day game. It so hard now to have a respectful and friendly adult conversation about two different football clubs without somebody seeing a difference of opinion, or an alternative argument, as an attack on them and their club and have the conversation descend into childish arguing and one-up-manship where people have to prove that their club is the best and superior no matter what.
I used to have some cracking debates with the mancs up til about the end of the 90s. Thats when things really got bad, especially as the internet became bigger and bigger. If we had those same debates about our 2 clubs now that we were having in say the 80/90s, as soon as I made my argument for the case of LFC. I'd just be abused, ridiculed and probably labelled "deluded".
No-one wants to converse or debate across clubs anymore as they just want to believe that their club is the biggest/the best and great in everyway so stick to their own people and forums where they will constantly have these beliefs about their club nourished and reinforced by their fellow supporters and if fans of other clubs, who see things less blinkered offer an alternative narrative about their club, its 'Kill-Mode Initiate'.
Liverpool fans, especially the younger ones, are always going to believe Liverpool is a club bigger than most, capable of special things with a promising future, no matter what happens as thats what their taught to believe my their family, friends, fellow Reds, the media and the club itself.
In essence, Liverpool fans will always think and feel about their club and its future, exactly what Spurs fans think/believe about their club and its future, and they have every right to do that as the future is yet to be written.
The teams on a good run of late, got some new, exciting players who are contributing well and were scoring lots of goals and playing the best footy we've played since 2008/09. The fans have had nothing but misery and failure (besides the League Cup win) on and off the pitch since the start of 2010 by Liverpools usual standards of the last 20 years. I think its understandable and forgiveable that some of them are getting a little over-excited and got their noses up and are starting to sound/feel optimistic about the future. It may be wishful thinking or it may become reality. We'll have to wait and see.
Glad I got that off me chest
aRTy
Well-Known Member
- Nov 10, 2010
- 468
- 410
Glad I got that off me chest
Oh, I'm not saying there aren't deluded fans everywhere, and maybe rawk has become abit of a cult place to visit for a laugh but my post was to the guy afew posts above asking why we (spurs fans) go on your forums and start trouble and i was just statting the guy seems pretty reasonable, just like you are on here. Let's be honest there have been / always will be the twats who join other forums and speak shite defending their teams over nothing.
Mr Pink
SC Supporter
- Aug 25, 2010
- 55,388
- 100,917
Its really surprising that you, a Spurs fan, hold the opinion that the its the Spurs fan who sounds completely honest and reasonable, whereas the LFC supporters are bat-shit crazy. Why could that be?
The funny thing is there's threads on our LFC forum about the delusion of Arsenal/Spurs/Newcastle fans, just as there are ones about RAWK and Liverpool fans on other teams forums. Its the same for every club. Its such a waste of time really I s'pose. Its always the other teams fans who are "deluded" and "wrong" and never their club or forum members/supporters.
Every club and forum has them. Its just that very few people regularly frequent other teams forums so don't notice that they are, essentially, a carbon copy of each other just with the names switched around. I do do this. I enjoy spending time on here, NUFCForum, Gooners World, VillaTalk, RedCafe and PlanetSwans and I can guarantee you that RAWK, not that it matters a jot really does it, has nothing on NUFCs forum/fans to be really petty.
What grinds my gears though, and there's lots of evidence of it in this thread, is when people deliberately go to RAWK to get silly posts that they can then post on their forum to provoke their fans/posters because they know they can get them off RAWK. Funny that despite me, a LFC supporter, stressing that RAWK doesn't realistically convey the average Red's opinion on things, its still that forum that is continually used to mock Liverpool supporters.
There's a thread on RAWK, which I was shocked to see on there (on the other sites fine but shocked with RAWK and their dictator Mods who ban people if they suggest Liverpool aren't the best and biggest club in the country - literally) lavishing praise on Spurs and inparticular AVB. There was about 3 posts on that before the more provocative posts are found and posted and then all the bile comes out.
This very small minority of people posting this bile are grown and mostly intelliegent adults. They know, as well as I, that the overwhelming majority of Liverpool fans don't believe the same things as these idiots on RAWK do. Its almost as if some people get some weird pleasure out of this idea of the deluded and unreasonable LFC fan, as if they actually want to believe thats what all Liverpool supporters think and are like. Like they need to have a reason to hate all LFC supporters.
The other thing I don't get is why Spurs fans inparticular are so bothered about what people on RAWK think? The Geordie forum I frequent has a lot more postings expressing their opinion that Newcastle are as good as Spurs and have as good a chance as them for top 4 next season (thats straight from a current thread btw, they really believe that), yet, nothing about that?
Why does the opinion of LFC supporters about Spurs matter so much to these people? Why does it make them spew hate-filled bile? Were not local rivals like we have with Everton, we don't have a city rivalry like weve always had with Manchester and Man U, and weve never even had a little artificial temporary rivalry like we had with Chavs when we played them in Europe and the Cups all the time in the mid-noughties.
It doesn't make any sense to me and I'd imagine nor most other Liverpool supporters. Its that bad that, although nearly everyone on this forum has been brilliant and dead friendly to me since I joined, for which I am eternally grateful, I've had to put around 20 people on ignore due to hateful abuse for no other reason really than I'm a Liverpool fan (they wouldn't admit that).
Its just mad to me considering we've never really had a heated rivalry for anything. I've always seen Spurs as a respected friend who do things the right way as a club, and must be admired for how they've climbed their way into the top 4, and an Allie against the oil money sugar daddies who have simply bought there way out of obscurity to the top of the table shitting on us both along the way.
I've never been bothered about other clubs or their fans. My opinion was always to just let the club do its talking on the pitch and trophy cabinet. The only time I get angry about what other supporters say or think is when its to do with the 96, or that they are factually incorrect on purpose about LFC to suit a certain point or agenda their pushing.
The tribalism that is present in modern football is one of the many things I detest about the present day game. It so hard now to have a respectful and friendly adult conversation about two different football clubs without somebody seeing a difference of opinion, or an alternative argument, as an attack on them and their club and have the conversation descend into childish arguing and one-up-manship where people have to prove that their club is the best and superior no matter what.
I used to have some cracking debates with the mancs up til about the end of the 90s. Thats when things really got bad, especially as the internet became bigger and bigger. If we had those same debates about our 2 clubs now that we were having in say the 80/90s, as soon as I made my argument for the case of LFC. I'd just be abused, ridiculed and probably labelled "deluded".
No-one wants to converse or debate across clubs anymore as they just want to believe that their club is the biggest/the best and great in everyway so stick to their own people and forums where they will constantly have these beliefs about their club nourished and reinforced by their fellow supporters and if fans of other clubs, who see things less blinkered offer an alternative narrative about their club, its 'Kill-Mode Initiate'.
Liverpool fans, especially the younger ones, are always going to believe Liverpool is a club bigger than most, capable of special things with a promising future, no matter what happens as thats what their taught to believe my their family, friends, fellow Reds, the media and the club itself.
In essence, Liverpool fans will always think and feel about their club and its future, exactly what Spurs fans think/believe about their club and its future, and they have every right to do that as the future is yet to be written.
The teams on a good run of late, got some new, exciting players who are contributing well and were scoring lots of goals and playing the best footy we've played since 2008/09. The fans have had nothing but misery and failure (besides the League Cup win) on and off the pitch since the start of 2010 by Liverpools usual standards of the last 20 years. I think its understandable and forgiveable that some of them are getting a little over-excited and got their noses up and are starting to sound/feel optimistic about the future. It may be wishful thinking or it may become reality. We'll have to wait and see.
Glad I got that off me chest
I didn't think most were bothered mate - but there does seem to be a lot of opinion on there regarding Spurs. How many members does RAWK have Toela? I mean if its 20,000 - are you saying 95% of them are morons?
LeSoupeKitchen
Well-Known Member
- Aug 18, 2011
- 3,114
- 7,643
Exactly! Its nice to think of Liverpool as jealous of us. Wouldn't have believed a few years ago that Spurs visiting Anfield would be considered a huge match for Liverpool and would be used as a yard stick for how well Liverpool are progressing!
Cavehillspur
Well-Known Member
- Jan 28, 2011
- 14,102
- 18,455
Completely forgot about the WBA game, gives me a bit more hope. AVB will know all about Coutinho from his time at Inter so will likely have a plan in place to snuff out any threat he poses.
- May 8, 2005
- 41,857
- 25,920
- Admin
- #3,932
With our next league opposition as Liverpool it makes sense that we'd be talking about them in here. All clubs have deluded fans, but Liverpool do it in a way that far exceeds most others. The success in the past has blinkered many fans. Newcastle run you close, and they got stick rightly when we were about to play them.
Misfit
President of The Niles Crane Fanclub
- May 7, 2006
- 21,329
- 35,203
Personally speaking, it's a nice little jaunt down memory lane also.
I grew up surrounded by older Spurs fans. We were watching the same team during the 90's and half of the 00's but all I saw was week after week of utter pap out on the pitch. Punctuated only by a select few individuals who made the experience somewhat bearable. Mabs, he who shall not be named until he went all black (at which point I obviously started hating him), Ginola, Ledders etc. The older fans however, when they weren't sobbing openly, swayed violently in the other direction and just knew - knew it in their very souls - that the likes of Leonhardsen and Allen were the start of something special again.
Obviously there are greater and lesser degrees to this, Spurs really were fucking awful for long periods of time and Liverpool are definitely not what they were even a few short yrs ago but they aren't exactly cast into the hinterlands with no hope even on the horizon.
Still, there are a few parallels.
I grew up surrounded by older Spurs fans. We were watching the same team during the 90's and half of the 00's but all I saw was week after week of utter pap out on the pitch. Punctuated only by a select few individuals who made the experience somewhat bearable. Mabs, he who shall not be named until he went all black (at which point I obviously started hating him), Ginola, Ledders etc. The older fans however, when they weren't sobbing openly, swayed violently in the other direction and just knew - knew it in their very souls - that the likes of Leonhardsen and Allen were the start of something special again.
Obviously there are greater and lesser degrees to this, Spurs really were fucking awful for long periods of time and Liverpool are definitely not what they were even a few short yrs ago but they aren't exactly cast into the hinterlands with no hope even on the horizon.
Still, there are a few parallels.
michaelden
Knight of the Fat Fanny
- Aug 13, 2004
- 26,469
- 21,847
RAWK posts can be funny but have you read some from KUMB, redcafe, arse-mania and SpursCommunity. All have their idiots and fans more blinkered than a jump horse on derby day. It's funny cos we disagree. Its like Talkshite is funny cos we disagree. Now if you happen to phone in well then you're another level of batshitcrazy as you fell for the shitehook
leonspurs
Well-Known Member
- Jun 8, 2006
- 1,550
- 912
Speak for yourself, cant stand man u, only slightly less than either the goons or the chavs.
Cavehillspur
Well-Known Member
- Jan 28, 2011
- 14,102
- 18,455
I dont mind Man U at all, majority of their fans come across fairly knowledgeable about football in general and fair in their comments, funny lot too. Ive quite a few mates who support both Man U and Liverpool and the shower who support Liverpool are insufferable when it comes to football (not all of them but most) but thats just speaking from personal experience.
JerryGarcia
Dark star crashes...
- May 18, 2006
- 8,694
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Some more Gooner bitterness
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