Why we need a defensive coach.

[Everlasting Seconds]

More like CB.. Thats the area letting us down big time.
Our central midfield is fine with Bentaleb and Mason

I obviously disagree. With a better CM-pairing, the CB's won't be so exposed all the time. Our CB' are fine, but they can't be expected to take all the shit resulting from weak and exposed CM's.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

"JUSTINSIGNAL, post: 4508316, member: 15453"]We're not shambolic at the back. We play a high press, attacking game. Which makes us exciting going forward but does mean if we get caught on the ball upfield our defence will be vulnerable to counter attacks. It's the sacrifice you have to make if you want exciting football.

The facts suggest that we are. We may not look it with suave Jan, and cool Walker but er, we are. We can press as high up as a pair of Saville row trousers but if we are letting in more than we are scoring (and we are heading for a record season for conceding) then what's the point?

Poch will get this team sorted and instill a better strategy in defence but to suggest that we are not shambolic at the back is plain stupid. Even Rose would hold is hand up to that.........(excuse the pun).......

 

[chrissivad]

Chris, every manager worth his salt, (and you can read quotes galore in biography's and the like) build a great side from the back. Irrespective of whether this is Poch's players or not, he has as many defensive players at the club than any other position. It would worry me if he cannot find four and a DM that could improve over that "failure" Sherwood surely?

Early days but for all the praise (and rightly so) for a fast, hard, pressing game we are still letting teams (and very poor ones at that, including those from lower divisions) score for fun.

I know about the quotes and agree with them.

But if your going on atats saying we have a shit defence, what about Lloris.

should we be calling him shit based on your stats?

We also dont have someone like parker and sandro that we have had the last few seasons protecting the back line.

we have tried diffrent players while the coach works out his best team, and we will see mistakes while we chop and change during this time.

 

[CheeseGromit]

i think out defensive frailty comes from being a fairly young inexperienced side. There are two components to this
1) We are making individual mistakes under pressure
2) we are playing a more hybrid 4-2-3-1 system to accommodate a lightweight 3 none of which are notablly strong or have a head for defending. This pressure on Bentelab and Mason and allowing them to push on into the supprting roles means we are going to get caught on the counter whether down the flanks or through the middle

A balancing out of experience and capablitywill sort the second problem , just time and experience if the players are good enough will solve the first

The first goal yesterday can be attributed to youngsters making space and the second to the inbalance between 2 D's and mf3 leaving defenders exposed and out of position

Defensive coaching is a function of the overall blueprint not something in isolation

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

I know about the quotes and agree with them.

But if your going on atats saying we have a shit defence, what about Lloris.

should we be calling him shit based on your stats?

We also dont have someone like parker and sandro that we have had the last few seasons protecting the back line.

we have tried diffrent players while the coach works out his best team, and we will see mistakes while we chop and change during this time.

Where did i say we had a "shit" defence? I was comparing our goals conceded over the past six seasons!

Pardew and Pulis have both addressed the serious problem that Palace and WBA had, that of conceding goals. They have done it with the same players they inherited.

Do you know how many games Sandro actually played for us? We have enough DM's to cover games whether we are in the EL, FA Cup or CC.

Any number of managers worth their salt have stated that any CL team that they built started with a good defence, and i am sure that Poch will eventually get our defence right. Facts are fact, and ignore the stats all you want, but they won't go away will they?

 

[chrissivad]

Facts are fact, and ignore the stats all you want, but they won't go away will they?

those stats dont even tell half the picture. You cling on to them if you want

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

those stats dont even tell half the picture. You cling on to them if you want

Our goals agianst column is fact and as good as Villa's.

Cling on to that.

Guess we will have to agree to diasgree on this one.

 

[chrissivad]

Our goals agianst column is fact and as good as Villa's.

Cling on to that.

Guess we will have to agree to diasgree on this one.

yes the amount of goals against is fact, but i have been on about the performance of the defence and the lack of cover from midfield.

Your stats dont show anything other than the result.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

yes the amount of goals against is fact, but i have been on about the performance of the defence and the lack of cover from midfield.

Your stats dont show anything other than the result.

Which is what i said in my original post!

The Spurs defence is and has been for the past dozen years the major issue with the team, and for the Poch to be an ex-International defender suggests that he either cannot solve the issue, or we do not have the defenders to do so.

Chris, every manager worth his salt, (and you can read quotes galore in biography's and the like) build a great side from the back. Irrespective of whether this is Poch's players or not, he has as many defensive players at the club than any other position. It would worry me if he cannot find four and a DM that could improve over that "failure" Sherwood surely?

Chris, what i am trying to say is that however good we look during games, pressing high, and recycling the ball well, this will never win us games when the opposition is scoring against us at will, with skill and a plan. Jose proved that in spades on Sunday, and lesser teams such as West Ham, Stoke, WBA, Newcastle, Leicester have done in our own house this season. He simply has to have a plan "B" and react to what he see's before his own eyes. Look to Pulis and Pardew to see that they have fixed clubs in a lot worse situation then our own by adapting tactics to what they have in their locker and not tried to play a game of football that half the team is incapable of doing.


COYS!

 

[Japhet]

Which is what i said in my original post!






Chris, what i am trying to say is that however good we look during games, pressing high, and recycling the ball well, this will never win us games when the opposition is scoring against us at will, with skill and a plan. Jose proved that in spades on Sunday, and lesser teams such as West Ham, Stoke, WBA, Newcastle, Leicester have done in our own house this season. He simply has to have a plan "B" and react to what he see's before his own eyes. Look to Pulis and Pardew to see that they have fixed clubs in a lot worse situation then our own by adapting tactics to what they have in their locker and not tried to play a game of football that half the team is incapable of doing.


COYS!

I'd say the difference is that Poch is trying to implement a style and ethos rather than simply get results. He has a long term plan which won't bear fruit until he has a squad fully able to implement his ideas. If he'd spent this season trying to get results we may be in a better position in the League but would not have moved forwards as a club.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

I'd say the difference is that Poch is trying to implement a style and ethos rather than simply get results. He has a long term plan which won't bear fruit until he has a squad fully able to implement his ideas. If he'd spent this season trying to get results we may be in a better position in the League but would not have moved forwards as a club.

You didn't really mean to write that did you?

Perhaps we shpould have stuck with Ramos, after all he was also tryiing to impliment a style.

 

[shelfboy68]

The facts suggest that we are. We may not look it with suave Jan, and cool Walker but er, we are. We can press as high up as a pair of Saville row trousers but if we are letting in more than we are scoring (and we are heading for a record season for conceding) then what's the point?

Poch will get this team sorted and instill a better strategy in defence but to suggest that we are not shambolic at the back is plain stupid. Even Rose would hold is hand up to that.........(excuse the pun).......

Have to agree the defence is very average only dier for me would i keep the rest are nothing special.
Trouble is some dont like hearing anything unless your raving about this or that, but you cant be blind to the obvious.

 

[Japhet]

You didn't really mean to write that did you?

Perhaps we shpould have stuck with Ramos, after all he was also tryiing to impliment a style.

Yes, I did mean to write that. IMO, Poch was brought in with a long term objective. Bringing in a different style and ethos is going to take time and I think he was tasked with doing the best with what is available for now until he gets a chance to bring a few in. The alternative would have been to hold fire on the 'new ethos' until all the pieces were in place which would have held us back another year. I think the results are secondary this year but we have managed to hang onto a decent League position anyway. I think Levy sees Poch as somebody he can work with in the long term and has backed him with the backroom staff for now, and probably players in the summer.

 

[Spursidol]

Looking at the top 6 sides in the table, maybe we could have conceded say 6 or 8 goals less.

However we've played 45 games, more than any other PL side so there's been almost no week we have not been playing midweek and weekend so no time to do much training, just planning for the next game.

And in pre-season many of our players were in the world cup so that the main senior CM played in pre-season was Capoue and one of ourmain CB's was Kaboul. Poch tried out all of the squad in the first half of the season, before working out the players who could work i his system and who could not.

End result though of not having many of the players available in pre-season and sorting out the team during the season is that for the first half season there was, inevitably, a reasonable amount of chopping and changing of the team. In turn we are still getting the team to fully gel and know how everyone plays. Hence we've conceded goals, often caused by individual mistakes and lack of familarity with how other team mates play.

From now until the end of the season it looks like we will be relying on the same squad of about 16 players - and maybe a few youngsters - so familiarity with fellow players is likely to improve results.

Defensive coach is not a priority. In the pre-season selling players who do not fit (Kaboul, Chirches, Capoue, Paulhino, Soldado, Adebayor) is.

 

[Main Man]

Our set up on set pieces is horrifying it really is.

However, although not a fan of zonal marking, the half time analysis suggested we set up wrong for the opening goal but I don't think that is fair. We had four (if not five) players positioned pretty well.

The problem comes when of that four or five it is Danny Rose that takes responsibility.

It defies logic that an International footballer would set us up the way Poch does, it really does.

We must buy a leader in the summer - there is not a signing we need more.

 

[Sevens]

We're not shambolic at the back. We play a high press, attacking game. Which makes us exciting going forward but does mean if we get caught on the ball upfield our defence will be vulnerable to counter attacks. It's the sacrifice you have to make if you want exciting football.

From open play I agree with this. We don't really have a central midfielder that protects the defence and the full backs play as wing backs so quite often our two centre halves are isolated.

However we also concede too many sloppy goals from set pieces, which has nothing to do with our pressing style of play. Personally I put this down to us not being a big side and not having enough players willing to attack the ball in the air.

I also feel we aren't a particularly brave team in the challenge. Defensively Fazio, Dier and Rose are the only three outfield players who really put their body on the line in a challenge. We don't have a single midfielder that will do that and unless you have an amazing team or a Rolls Royce of a DM (Alonso, Carrick etc.) then you at least need a fearless one who will stick their head where it hurts (Parker, Sandro etc.) if you want to stand any chance of being consistently successful.

 

[cookiemonster]

That's why we should hold onto him. He's a tactically aware and team minded player.

Not hold on to him

Upgrade him

 

[shelfboy68]

Looking at the top 6 sides in the table, maybe we could have conceded say 6 or 8 goals less.

However we've played 45 games, more than any other PL side so there's been almost no week we have not been playing midweek and weekend so no time to do much training, just planning for the next game.

And in pre-season many of our players were in the world cup so that the main senior CM played in pre-season was Capoue and one of ourmain CB's was Kaboul. Poch tried out all of the squad in the first half of the season, before working out the players who could work i his system and who could not.

End result though of not having many of the players available in pre-season and sorting out the team during the season is that for the first half season there was, inevitably, a reasonable amount of chopping and changing of the team. In turn we are still getting the team to fully gel and know how everyone plays. Hence we've conceded goals, often caused by individual mistakes and lack of familarity with how other team mates play.

From now until the end of the season it looks like we will be relying on the same squad of about 16 players - and maybe a few youngsters - so familiarity with fellow players is likely to improve results.

Defensive coach is not a priority. In the pre-season selling players who do not fit (Kaboul, Chirches, Capoue, Paulhino, Soldado, Adebayor) is.

Walker,rose,verts and Lloris all played last year so its not a lack of familiarity is it with the exception of Lloris its shit defending.
You have been too kind on them there are no excuses for keep letting goals in other than poor defending and coaching.
We have much to be happy about but this needs sorting or we will continue to miss out on the prizes.