"World Class"

[DEFchenkOE]

Furry muff, but then I question the logic behind including Van Rapist and Clichy in there. Cashley Cole has achieved more than they have, but doesn't get a mention, neither does the transvestite JT or Gary Neville.

My logic was that in my opinion these players are currently world class, not really comparing them to past greats. But at the moment I would say that Clichy is one of the best left backs around, and I rate Van Persie highly as a number 10 or 9 type striker.

Probably should have included JT and Vidic in there, but I did say it was just at the top of my head. Also I don't think A Cole has been anywhere near as good as he was at Arsenal, just my opinion though.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

I think if Ledley had managed to play consistently at his best level he would be in the world class catergory. Unfortunately having world class ability doesn't make you a world class player, if that makes any sense.

Not quite sure how you can have Van Persie as a world class player but not Robinho and Lampard. That isn't just an anti Arsenal thing, but Van Persie is nowhere near world class in my opinion. Adebayor is closer.

Also Clichy? Is that just because there are no good left backs? He is talented but I don't think he is world class. Players like Vidic and Cech are also unlucky to miss out on your list.

It is difficult to know whether players who play in those slightly lesser leagues are world class or not? I wouldn't class someone like Benzema as world class, but then he could move to somewhere for £40m+. When Porto won the Champions league, they arguably had some world class players.

Would you still say Cech is world class? I seriously think he is a shadow of himself since his injury, maybe he is still as they're not many keepers better than him it's just that he seems to have made a few costly errors which he didn't seem to do before. I didn't really put any keepers though as I think they are very difficult to judge alongside outfield players. They probably need an entire list on their own.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

My logic was that in my opinion these players are currently world class, not really comparing them to past greats. But at the moment I would say that Clichy is one of the best left backs around, and I rate Van Persie highly as a number 10 or 9 type striker.

Probably should have included JT and Vidic in there, but I did say it was just at the top of my head. Also I don't think A Cole has been anywhere near as good as he was at Arsenal, just my opinion though.

Bilic rates Modric as the second best in the world in his position behind Kaka. So is Bilic wrong? Is Arshavin world class, despite never playing in a top league?

Despite Clichy being one of the best left backs around is that just because there aren't many good left backs around? Can he be world class if he isn't even France class (I mean he isn't first choice (or second) left back for a French team that got absolutely destroyed by all comers in the last major tournament - he has 2 caps).

 

[DEFchenkOE]

Yea I heard him say that, not saying he is wrong, he is an international coach and I'm here posting on an Internet forum but I completely disagree with that comment. Unless Bilic sees something really different in Luka that I haven't seen, don't get me wrong I really like Modric, think he'll be a great player for us given the chance, but I don't think he's anywhere near Kaka personally, Modric hasn't even played well for us so far directly behind the striker which is where Kaka plays.

Agree though that there doesn't seem to be a great deal of top left backs around so I guess I'm wrong with Clichy, as you say he is behind Abidal and Evra for France. Although Abidal was awful last season, has looked better this season though.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

I'm not saying you are wrong, it is a matter of opinions. Personally I don't think Clichy is at world class level.

As for Modric, if you put him in a team better than ours I'm sure he would look incredible. He needs good players and lots of outlets for him to flourish. Also if he was playing in Serie A where he had more time on the ball he might look an entirely different player as well.

That leads to two things;

Can a player be world class if he is only world class in one particular style of football, i.e. is great technically and would be outstanding in Italy, but struggles far more in England (my opinion is no, but I think Modric has world class talent and isn't a world class player)

And can a player be considered world class if he struggles in a bad team rather than being the one bright spark in a bad team (more difficult for players whose strength is predominantly creativity and passing etc. but again I think if they are truely world class they would be able to at least bring the other players around them up a level).

How would Kaka do for Tottenham? Would he look like a world class player?

 

[Rackybear]

World Class is a player with various unique abilities. Someone in my books who showcases these abilities on a consistent basis not neccasarily week in and out, but more often then not.

Lennon for example has a unique ability - Pace. But he hasn't got much else going for him.

Berbatov, Messi, Ronaldo, Gerrard, Ferdinand, Rooney, Kaka, Nistelrooy, Xavi, Hnery, Eto, Raul, Ibrahimovic (he may be hyped up, but this guy has talent), even Arshavin.

All world class players in my book. Ofcourse their is many more.

But the difference between the above players and say Luka Modric, is that Modric needs to learn how to adapt his game against all kinds of teams, physical or footballing sides. Modric in his own right has shown world class ability, but he will never become a World Class player until he can prove those abilities consistently and not once in every 4 or 5 games.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

Good point, if Kaka played for us, he'd probably look average with our teams static movement, who knows. I do think though if your talking about true world class then you need to be successful in any league you've played in and show you can adapt to that style eg Van Nistelrooy

I agree that Modric does have world class talent, but then again there are quite a few players that do have world class talent. I know what you mean about being the bright spark in a poor team, a bit like Ginola for us or Juninho for Boro. Though I think only Spurs fans would say that Ginola was a world class player, oh and maybe some Geordies too.

 

[Disconosebleed]

The term 'world class' is used by so many different people in so many different ways that it's pretty much meaningless. For some people, world class means one of the top few players in the world who stand out above all others - for example right now Messi, and last year Ronaldo. For others it's less exclusive and can encorporate more players.

I'd tend towards that less exclusive definition and argue that a 'world class' player is any player that wouldn't look out of place at a top club. For example very few would claim Darren Fletcher to be a 'world class' player, but he plays a vital role in making United the team that they are, to the extent that he's one of the first names on the team sheet alongside the similarly limited Ji-Sung Park. Now I'm not particularly calling either of those players world class, but I would consider any player who makes an important difference at a top club, or any player capable of making a difference at a top club, world class.

 

[Kendall]

Lampard is clearly world class.

 

[donny1013]

I think that 'World Class' is banded around way too much in modern football. I would say i rate about twenty players in that bracket. Top 3 would be Messi, C.Ron and Xavi. I sort of judge it by whether the player could play for any top team in the world and make them better.

 

[Bonjour]

I am world class.

 

[The Original Yiddster]

sorry but Clichy....are you sure?

Oh and fat frank should be there and Drogba on his day is unplayable therefore worldclass

 

[WhiteStripe]

sorry but Clichy....are you sure?

Oh and fat frank should be there and Drogba on his day is unplayable therefore worldclass

On my day, I'm unplayable, unfortunately that day was 26th October 1999!!

 

[deselina]

Oh, and Van Persie is a world class rapist (allegedly), not a world class footballer. He's barely won any trophies.

uefa cup with feyenoord in 2002
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finalist champions league

 

[deselina]

Berbatov
R Ferdinand
Ronaldo
Rooney
Evra
Torres
Gerrard
Xabi A
Fabregas
Clichy
Van Persie
Carvalho
Essien

i disagree with

carrick, from an european view.. i don't think he has featured much for england?

xabi a, was together with fabregas only a fringe player for spain this summer because senna, iniesta and xavi were better.

clicy, with evra and abidal ahead him for france i don't label him worldclass as of yet.

i would include the likes of cech, vd sar, adebayor, drogba, ballack, robinho, terry, lampard and deco to the list.

 

[KitKat]

Robinho and King are without a doubt world class as are Lampard, Giggs and Scholes to name a few, but A LOT of players missed out.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

I said world class at the moment, are Giggs, Scholes, and King world class right now? I don't think so. Ballack hasn't done much at Chelsea, as hit his Bundesliga form that's for sure, re Deco - sorry I just don't see him as world class, been poor for the last 2 years. Maybe Adebayor is but he misses so many chances that's why I left him out.

MattyP said that Van Persie has barely won trophies, so soes this mean he can't be a world class player? There are many players that people would say are average that have plenty of trophies, doesn't make them world class though does it?

Re Carrick I think he is a world class midfielder at the moment, he wouldn't be out of place in any of the top teams midfield, I'm not saying he is going to go down as one of the all time greats but I do think he is one of the best in the world playing cm in a 442. Proved this at spurs and now at utd.

 

[mil1lion]

For me its...

Man Utd - Van Der Saar, Vidic, Evra, Neville, Ferdinand, Scholes, Giggs, Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez, Berbatov
Chelsea - Cech, Terry, Carvalho, A.Cole, Lampard, Essien, Deco, Ballack, J.Cole, Drogba
Liverpool - Carragher, Alonso, Mascharano, Gerrard, Torres
Arsenal - Toure, Fabregas, Arshavin, Van Persie, Adebayour
Spurs - King, Woodgate, Keane

A few players who could be world class in a few years are Clichy, Modric, Bosingwa, Carrick

All the world class players have proven to be top class for club and country, in the League and in Europe. The Spurs ones are difficult because they haven't played much Champs League Football between them, but they perform at the highest level for whoever they're up against. Woody and King have always performed for England when called on. Keane always does it for Ireland. And all 3 have proven top class in the UEFA Cup, and i dont think you have to be in the Champs League to be world class. Besides, we've played a number of Champs League teams in the UEFA over the past 3 years, and all 3 players have been top class.

 

[MattyP]

uefa cup with feyenoord in 2002
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fa community shield

finalist champions league

Yep, I wiki'ed it, that's why I changed it from not winning any medals to barely winning medals.

MattyP said that Van Persie has barely won trophies, so soes this mean he can't be a world class player? There are many players that people would say are average that have plenty of trophies, doesn't make them world class though does it?

No, but winning medals is, in my opinion, one measure of whether or not they are proven. It's something that is undeniable, like finishing in the top three in the European or World footballer of the year awards. The rating of someone's talent is by definition very subjective and it would be difficult to get a consensus purely based on this, though it is also a factor as to whether someone is world class or not.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

uefa cup with feyenoord in 2002
fa cup
fa community shield

finalist champions league

Big whoop.

Djimi Traoré has won:

2 League Cups,
2 FA Cups
1 FA community shield
1 UEFA Cup
1 UEFA Super Cup
1 Champions League

Not sure it's a particularly accurate reflection of his ability, because Djimi Traoré is terrible.

Yes Van Persie has won things during his career, but I'm not sure that can be used to define a good player, let alone a world class player. I think Van Persie is a distance off being World Class. He plays in a similar role to Ronaldo and Messi, they are the benchmark for his position.