would anyone rather win the cup than finish fourth ?

[Dougal]

The Cup. I think we have more chance of getting third than winning it but that's the Holy Grail for me. It's Tottenham's Cup. It's been too long.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

I was brought up on stories of FA cup wins. I had nothing else to go on as to why I supported Spurs, so winning the FA cup is a fantasy, a lifelong dream.

Getting into the Champions League will go further towards keeping our best players, further towards our progress as a club.

I'm very torn on the issue. When I read Van der Vaart saying what he said, about how even without the Champions League we're still a great club who he wants to become a legend with and leave a legacy with, when I read that then all of a sudden I think 'well if rat face and mr selfish don't want to be with us because we're the 5th best team in the country instead od 4th, fuck them, we only want people with Rafa's attitude' and the FA Cup suddenly becomes more important.

It's funny, I'd take 3rd over the FA cup.... imagine being the third placed team in the country, only beaten by sides who each both at least two strikers of £30m+? But 4th? I actually think I'd take the FA cup.

The fact that if we're in the final I won't be there is absolutely killing me though. Just watching the pre match now for todays semi final has made me again doubt whether I can actually leave the country and miss Wembley. I'm conflicted.

Either way, I think the Cup win, even though I'll be heartbroken at not getting CL, will feel better than getting 4th. I go with that. I'll remember that.

 

[Mullers]

But it will still just be a memory

Right now we are kind of at a cross roads

potentially coming fourth and gaining CL football/money could be a spring board that attracts better players and helps us keep our best players which leads us to bigger and better things and a period of sustained success

Where as FA cup win without CL football could see our best players wanting to leave and our targets being reduced to lesser players which could see us slip back to midtable or best of the rest status.

Ok neither option has any guaranteed outcome, but recent history and knowledge of current football suggests we have more chance of building and sustaining a period of success if we make CL for next year than we will have if we win the cup and don't have it.

I think as a club we need to be taking the opportunities to progress not the short term success of a cup final

When we came fourth last time practically nothing happened, for top players to come to us you need to pay top wages especially if our other top four rivals are in the mix, for that to happen a sugar daddy or regular CL football is needed, regular CL football is not realistic right now. As for players leaving, I have every confidence that if Levy says x,y,z player is not leaving, then he will not let them leave.

This is what VDV says

“You look at Manchester United and you see they don’t get nervous. We have been a little bit nervous and you can lose that only by playing in big games. That is what changes you from a normal team into a top team, because I think we have top players.

The semi final of the FA cup and the FA final are massive games, we have the opportunity to make a start in getting rid of nervousness and and when we win the cup hopefully the players are going to be hungry for more success.

 

[gilzeantheking]

I have been at our last 5 Fa Cup Finals including replays, and I can remember each of them as if they were yesterday. Wonderful memories (except 1987). I would like some more memories to add to those great days out with my late Dad.

However, in the modern game qualifying for the CL seems to have become imperative for clubs to attract top quality players and so if we wan't to see our beloved Spurs progress we need that 4th spot.

TBH I want both.

 

[AngerManagement]

When we came fourth last time practically nothing happened, for top players to come to us you need to pay top wages especially if our other top four rivals are in the mix, for that to happen a sugar daddy or regular CL football is needed, regular CL football is not realistic right now. As for players leaving, I have every confidence that if Levy says x,y,z player is not leaving, then he will not let them leave.

This is what VDV says


The semi final of the FA cup and the FA final are massive games, we have the opportunity to make a start in getting rid of nervousness and and when we win the cup hopefully the players are going to be hungry for more success.

Yes I know what you are saying, I indeed alluded to the fact that neither option has a guaranteed outcome i.e. coming fourth will not guarantee better players or money money spent and winning the FA cup without CL would not make it impossible to sign players or keep players or progress.

Last time to be fair we signed VDV a player we probably wouldn't have been able to without CL football

I certainly agree that CL football needs to become regular before Levy would extend our wage caps etc, but I don't really see what regular CL football is not realistic had we not missed out last season via another collapse in the league we would have been going for our third straight appearance right now (in my opinion we should have been 3 times in a row)

Its do able, not easy but do able and the only way to get regular CL football is to get in it in the first place.

I love the quote from VDV, I like the idea of success breeding more success but then I remember the same things being said about of Carling Cup success under Ramos and how that was suppose to give our squad a taste for winning and like how Jose's Chelsea team started their run of success with a Carling Cup win so would/might we......but the result of that was a famous start of 2 points from 8 games and a sacked manager. (so silverwear doesn't guarantee future success either)

I know neither option will produce definite results, I am just basing my choice of preference on what I personally believe gives our club the best chance of building some sustained success and that in my opinion is to get back in the CL and to try and establish ourselves as a CL outfit.

Obviously I want us to win the FA Cup as much as the next man, this is merely a hypothetical choice we have been asked to make and I'm just giving my personal reasons for why I would take one option over the other if I were forced to choose.

 

[AngerManagement]

I have been at our last 5 Fa Cup Finals including replays, and I can remember each of them as if they were yesterday. Wonderful memories (except 1987). I would like some more memories to add to those great days out with my late Dad.

However, in the modern game qualifying for the CL seems to have become imperative for clubs to attract top quality players and so if we wan't to see our beloved Spurs progress we need that 4th spot.

TBH I want both.

Don't we all lol

 

[Mullers]

Yes I know what you are saying, I indeed alluded to the fact that neither option has a guaranteed outcome i.e. coming fourth will not guarantee better players or money money spent and winning the FA cup without CL would not make it impossible to sign players or keep players or progress.

Last time to be fair we signed VDV a player we probably wouldn't have been able to without CL football

VDV seems like a very down to earth fellow, more quotes from him.

“Every young player would want to play for Barcelona, United, Real Madrid; everybody understands if they want to go. But I’ve been there and I had a great time but now I’m happy here. Failing to reach the Champions League wouldn’t be a big reason to leave.

“I love to play in Europe, the Europa League, too, which is why I was annoyed earlier in the season when I wasn’t included in the squad for that competition. The Champions League is great but it’s not the most important thing for me.

“I’m not here because it’s a good life. I want to get involved in this team and be an important player for many years. I want to achieve something and I’m happy because I feel the club want what I want.

So on that evidence, I'd say it would still be possible to sign him.

I certainly agree that CL football needs to become regular before Levy would extend our wage caps etc, but I don't really see what regular CL football is not realistic had we not missed out last season via another collapse in the league we would have been going for our third straight appearance right now (in my opinion we should have been 3 times in a row)

I wasn't expecting Chelsea to be scrambling around for a CL spot this season but I don't think they will be in that position next season they have too much resources. I think Liverpool will be back in the hunt next season, I think with more teams competing for places, I don't think there is going to be an automatic top four any more, I think it will be more like one season a team gets a spot, then they may miss out for a season or two.

I love the quote from VDV, I like the idea of success breeding more success but then I remember the same things being said about of Carling Cup success under Ramos and how that was suppose to give our squad a taste for winning and like how Jose's Chelsea team started their run of success with a Carling Cup win so would/might we......but the result of that was a famous start of 2 points from 8 games and a sacked manager. (so silverwear doesn't guarantee future success either)

I know neither option will produce definite results, I am just basing my choice of preference on what I personally believe gives our club the best chance of building some sustained success and that in my opinion is to get back in the CL and to try and establish ourselves as a CL outfit.

Obviously I want us to win the FA Cup as much as the next man, this is merely a hypothetical choice we have been asked to make and I'm just giving my personal reasons for why I would take one option over the other if I were forced to choose.

Well true but a stronger manager than Ramos would have given the players a kick up the arse and not let them think their job is done just because they won the cup.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

Finishing fourth to retain the players, add a better class of player, more money, and new stadium. For the clubs evolution it is imperative we finish fourth. I couldn't even tell you who the last winner of thr fa cup is.

There is vastly more upside finishing fourth than winning the fa cup.

 

[Tonio]

Its the thrill of playing in the champions league over the thrill of winning the cup personally. The money thing is secondary to me as a fan.

 

[MR_BEN]

Finishing fourth to retain the players, add a better class of player, more money, and new stadium. For the clubs evolution it is imperative we finish fourth. I couldn't even tell you who the last winner of thr fa cup is.

There is vastly more upside finishing fourth than winning the fa cup.

This... i haven't a clue. The FA Cup is not what it used to be.

 

[RichieS]

I know this is going to sound massively pessimistic, but I don't really see in the point in perpetual CL qualification for us. We're never going to win it, no chance.

Similar with the Premier League. The teams that have won it since its inception in 1992-93 were either in the perfect position to capitalise at the time (United, Arsenal) and have done so brilliantly, or have been bankrolled by a sugar daddy (Blackburn, Chelsea, Man City shortly no doubt).

Unfortunately for "the rest of us", those clubs that foresaw the change in football from sport to business have put themselves in a position where, barring the odd catastrophic financial collapse, they are impossible to usurp.

I'd rather win a competition every year than participate in another that we have no chance of winning. Sorry.

 

[Blake Griffin]

if we want to make the step up and have the chance to sign more top bracket players like steven pienaar and bongani khumalo then it has to be 4th. if we ever finished top 4 then i'm sure we'd establish ourselves and stay there for years to come.

 

[Spurs in Belgium]

Yes. It's about winning silverware, much as I enjoy the Euro away trips. Let's hope we get both!

 

[AngerManagement]

VDV seems like a very down to earth fellow, more quotes from him.


So on that evidence, I'd say it would still be possible to sign him.

I wasn't expecting Chelsea to be scrambling around for a CL spot this season but I don't think they will be in that position next season they have too much resources. I think Liverpool will be back in the hunt next season, I think with more teams competing for places, I don't think there is going to be an automatic top four any more, I think it will be more like one season a team gets a spot, then they may miss out for a season or two.





Well true but a stronger manager than Ramos would have given the players a kick up the arse and not let them think their job is done just because they won the cup.

Now he's here I don't think VDV would push to leave because we didn't have CL football but when he was leaving Real I suspect he wouldn't have come had we not been a CL club in the first place.

there are certainly likely to be 6 teams fighting for 4 CL spaces year in year out now, but we currently have a squad as good if not better than anyone outside of the two manchester teams and there is no reason we could not establish ourselves as regulars if we keep our best players and bring in the right players, thinking its not realistic just smacks of small time mentality and self defeating to me. If our board and management feel that way too then I agree we'll never establish ourselves if however they believe in themselves and make the positive moves they need to make if we secure CL football this season I don't for a second believe it is impossible.

As for the Ramos situation, ok he seemed weak but what I am saying is this.....the Carling Cup win in my mind wasn't the reason Jose's Chelsea went on to win a lot it was because he spent a lot of money at a time when most other clubs could not and he was building a strong side, he and they would have went on to win all the things they won anyway in my opinion and several clubs have had one off cup successes without it developing into anything more....indeed both Pompey and Birmingham were relegated shortly after cup final success. I mean I think lifting silverwear is fantastic, I don't however think there is much truth in the belief that a cup victory will automatically give teams the belief they can win and result in more success and I think CL football is more likely to help us keep pace with the bigger clubs long term than an FA cup win would.

For the record I actually think we will lose tomorrow and the FA cup talk will be irrelevant but I do think we will hold on for fourth.

 

[Mullers]

Now he's here I don't think VDV would push to leave because we didn't have CL football but when he was leaving Real I suspect he wouldn't have come had we not been a CL club in the first place.

there are certainly likely to be 6 teams fighting for 4 CL spaces year in year out now, but we currently have a squad as good if not better than anyone outside of the two manchester teams and there is no reason we could not establish ourselves as regulars if we keep our best players and bring in the right players, thinking its not realistic just smacks of small time mentality and self defeating to me. If our board and management feel that way too then I agree we'll never establish ourselves if however they believe in themselves and make the positive moves they need to make if we secure CL football this season I don't for a second believe it is impossible.

I genuinely looking at from a realistically as things stand right now, nothing to do with having a small time mentality or self defeating. In order to qualify regularly we have to do better season after season than Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and perhaps Newcastle. Do we have the financial resources to compete with Chelsea and Liverpool at the moment? No and they are not going to stand still and let us claim a regular spot. Bringing in the right players: Sure if I felt that we were going bring in the right players I would certainly feel more realistic about our chances. It doesn't look like we are going we going to pay Ade's wages, so realistically ( I am not talking about what you think should happen) do you think we will bring in two top quality strikers that will probably cost 20 million plus each, a quality defender 10 to 20 million, at least two quality midfielders, Hazard 30 million, no idea how much Hoilet is worth but that won't be cheap. Looking at the history of the way we do transfer business and who we bring in, no way.

As for the Ramos situation, ok he seemed weak but what I am saying is this.....the Carling Cup win in my mind wasn't the reason Jose's Chelsea went on to win a lot it was because he spent a lot of money at a time when most other clubs could not and he was building a strong side, he and they would have went on to win all the things they won anyway in my opinion and several clubs have had one off cup successes without it developing into anything more....indeed both Pompey and Birmingham were relegated shortly after cup final success. I mean I think lifting silverwear is fantastic, I don't however think there is much truth in the belief that a cup victory will automatically give teams the belief they can win and result in more success and I think CL football is more likely to help us keep pace with the bigger clubs long term than an FA cup win would.

For the record I actually think we will lose tomorrow and the FA cup talk will be irrelevant but I do think we will hold on for fourth.

But we have more quality than the Pompey or Birmingham sides have ok agreed it wont necessarily give us automatic belief but it certainly won't do our confidence any harm, I don't think it is any coincidence that our record improved against Chelsea after that final. Lifting silverware should be the main aim of every top club, you are not a winner if you come fourth, you just happen to have a chance not a guarantee of qualifying for another competition. For me this is not more important than winning the FA cup after 21 years against Liverpool.

 

[AngerManagement]

I genuinely looking at from a realistically as things stand right now, nothing to do with having a small time mentality or self defeating. In order to qualify regularly we have to do better season after season than Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and perhaps Newcastle. Do we have the financial resources to compete with Chelsea and Liverpool at the moment? No and they are not going to stand still and let us claim a regular spot. Bringing in the right players: Sure if I felt that we were going bring in the right players I would certainly feel more realistic about our chances. It doesn't look like we are going we going to pay Ade's wages, so realistically ( I am not talking about what you think should happen) do you think we will bring in two top quality strikers that will probably cost 20 million plus each, a quality defender 10 to 20 million, at least two quality midfielders, Hazard 30 million, no idea how much Hoilet is worth but that won't be cheap. Looking at the history of the way we do transfer business and who we bring in, no way.

But we have more quality than the Pompey or Birmingham sides have ok agreed it wont necessarily give us automatic belief but it certainly won't do our confidence any harm, I don't think it is any coincidence that our record improved against Chelsea after that final. Lifting silverware should be the main aim of every top club, you are not a winner if you come fourth, you just happen to have a chance not a guarantee of qualifying for another competition. For me this is not more important than winning the FA cup after 21 years against Liverpool.

I think there is more chance of us bringing in better players if we are in the CL than if we are not

I don't expect us to suddenly bring in a bunch of world beaters and I think those who do expect that will be in for a disappointment

I do however think that we will have a better, stronger squad next season if we are in CL compared to that we will start the season with if we do not make fourth. I think we will lose more players and bring in lesser quality players without CL football and be a weaker unit over all than we are now where as with CL football even if we do make the amazing moves some would think we should/could the net result will see us having a stronger squad next season than we have now.

I think we are strong enough to compete with Liverpool and Chelsea even if they can outspend us for the simple fact we already have a lot of strength and quality in our squad and as Arsenal have proved you don't necessarily have to spend the most to compete and as Liverpool have proved spending large sums does not automatically guarantee success.

Parker and Adebayor are two great examples of ways in which we were able to upgrade our squad without spending massive amounts simply be addressing areas we needed to address, if we were able to address areas with players of a slightly higher calibre or could spend slightly more money because of our CL status I see no reason why we could not build towards becoming CL regulars.

I get what you are saying, I just don't agree. To me the chance of CL football is still a greater chance of long term progression than an FA cup victory which will be a great day and a bit of glory but have no chance of leading to anything above and beyond the glory of the single day. We may have more about us than Birmingham or Pompey, but then when did anyone ever become successful long term because of a single cup final victory since the inception of the CL without CL football? I can't think of anyone who's success can realistically be attributed to a Carling or FA cup success

Also I see what you are saying about fourth only getting you a play off, but how often do the English sides lose that play off? I can only think of Everton once....its a little bit more than a chance, its not a guarantee but its a situation where you really should make the group stages and unless we are dealt a very very tough draw you'd expect a side that has mixed it successfully with the mighty milan sides in recent times to have enough to get over a b/c list european outfit over two legs.

 

[Eric_s]

The glory of winning the FA cup is a thing of the past, just like outdated technology. The trophies that really represents glory now are the league title and the CL title. Unless some of you would like to see our top players leaving after a couple of seasons with us, fourth is a top priority.
The start of the CL has taken away the prestige of any domestic cup. I would rather we finish in the top 4 consistently for the next several seasons before we start to worry about adding some cups to our cabinents.

 

[AngerManagement]

The glory of winning the FA cup is a thing of the past, just like outdated technology. The trophies that really represents glory now are the league title and the CL title. Unless some of you would like to see our top players leaving after a couple of seasons with us, fourth is a top priority.
The start of the CL has taken away the prestige of any domestic cup. I would rather we finish in the top 4 consistently for the next several seasons before we start to worry about adding some cups to our cabinents.

It still means a lot if you win it, the Carling cup meant a lot to us as Spurs fans

Its just that in real terms the glory of the FA cup is a thing of the past, no one else really cares. I mean I don't even watch the FA cup final anymore, I have only bothered to watch 2 since 2001 and I probably want watch another one unless we are in it because frankly I couldn't care less who wins it if we are not involved.

I don't think anyone should underestimate what it would mean to us as fans to see us winning the cup, it would be amazing

 

[Blake Griffin]

The glory of winning the FA cup is a thing of the past, just like outdated technology. The trophies that really represents glory now are the league title and the CL title. Unless some of you would like to see our top players leaving after a couple of seasons with us, fourth is a top priority.
The start of the CL has taken away the prestige of any domestic cup. I would rather we finish in the top 4 consistently for the next several seasons before we start to worry about adding some cups to our cabinents.

and you think we're winning either of these anytime soon?

 

[Eric_s]

and you think we're winning either of these anytime soon?

No. But I think we should face reality and accept that qualifying for the CL is not only more beneficial to our club's long term future, it is also seen as a measure of success.
It will be great if we can win the FA cup. I will be elated. But if I can choose only one, then its top 4.