Your formation solutions.....

[AngerManagement]

Ok so I kinda been banging on about how next year we need to find a system and style of play that suits us best and one that remains fairly constant with interchangeable components (players) who can rotate and cover/compete without causing disruption to that system in the name of stability and cohesion

I think the system needs to solve the problem we have had since we signed Van Der Vaart and find a way to both get the best out of him and the team without the two being mutually exclusive (which to me they often seem)

So fantasy football time (football manager whatever its called)

If you were Harry, what would you do when you finished twitching?

I'd like to see your suggestions to the formations you would employ to get the best out of our current playing stay and or the transfers in and out you would (realistically) look to make to complement the system and make us as strong as we could be for the start of the new season.

For me the lone striker role with VdV seems to work best for him, Crouch seemed to get the best out of VDV but we lost a lot everywhere else with Crouch in the team and he didn't offer goals himself.

For me Adebayor didn't really work that great either, Adebayor didn't seem to have as much influence on VdV's play and he himself was not clinical or consistent enough perhaps to be the lone striker (although I do think he's probably the best we could get in still

I'd torn and some what baffled as to how we should really play and indeed who we should sign, I feel like the first thing to do is decide upon the system and then look to by players to fit that system rather than trying to a cater a system around new players

I do like the

......GK
lb cb cb rb
...cm cm
rw..am....lw
.....CF

I am tempted to think that if we do by Ade we may need a second striker to contribute more goals though, I certainly think we played well when he was linking up with Saha, but how to accommodate two strikers AND VdV without weakening the middle and leaving us vulnerable? (3 CB's perhaps?)

I won't go in to too many formation options cos basically I am not that great with tactics anyway (can never make a decent custom formation on fifa 12 lol)
plus I'd like to see what you guys can come up with

so with that in mind I'm just gonna go with the formation above and my signings would be as follows


............Krul
Walker Kaboul Verts BAE
.....Sandro Modric
Remy......VdV....Bale
........Adebayor


I'm not confident that Remy would be better than Lennon in that poisition though as I think we would lose Lennon's defensive work rate and leave Walker exposed (and note I was really lazy with the signings and basically just picked a couple of generic ones that have been frequently touted on here)

It so difficult to me to decide what we should do, but to be honest I want to see you guys solve the problem in my head for me cos I've been thinking about this for ages and basically go round in circles

 

[kazzah9]

Nelsen
Nelsen Nelsen Nelsen Nelsen
Nelsen Nelsen Nelsen Nelsen
Nelsen Nelsen

 

[AngerManagement]

Nelsen
Nelsen Nelsen Nelsen Nelsen
Nelsen Nelsen Nelsen Nelsen
Nelsen Nelsen

That doesn't really fit the rhyming scheme for the we all dream of a team of...song does it?!

But thanks for taking my thread seriously, makes the time I spent at this hour writing it when I should be sleeping for an early rise well worth it

 

[DuDe]

---------------- GK ---------------
AM MF DF DF DF DF MF MF AM
---------------- ST ---------------


Clearly, after the weekend, this must be the 'winning formula'

 

[ItsBoris]

I would sell Modric and attempt to bring in Sahin, Fellaini, Lloris, Vertonghen, Leandro, Remy, and Adebayor.

Also get rid of Defoe, Saha, Nelsen, Gallas, King (unfortunately), GDS, Corluka, Kranjcar, and Gomes.

4-2-3-1 formation:

--------------------------------Lloris/Friedel---------------------------------
Walker/Naughton - Vert/Caulker - Kaboul/Dawson - BAE/Naughton
-------Sandro/Fellaini/Parker----------Sahin/Hudd/Livermore-----------
Lennon/Remy---------------VDV/Pienaar---------Bale/Pienaar---------
-----------------------------Adebayor/Leandro---------------------------

That's called having a SQUAD. And you ROTATE it. We would be about a million times stronger depth wise and a lot better first 11 wise as well imo. Every single name there is good enough to play in a top 4 team imho.

Oh and bring in a coach who will do that, and also organize the team into an effective passing unit. Someone like Brendan Rodgers imo.

 

[ravo]

4-2-3-1. It's made for our squad. Just need Ade to sign permanently.

 

[Ribble]

Brad
run-about-a-bit
Crouchy, no wait Ade!

 

[Mattspur]

In: Lloris, Vertonghen, Adam Johnson, Ganso, Adebayor, Leandro

Out: Gomes, Corluka, King, Bassong, Neilsen, Rose, GDS, Jenas, Bentley, Defoe, Saha, Pinnar, Kranjcar, Modric (if he wants to go)

Formation:

Lloris/Friedel

Walker/Naughton Kaboul/Caulker Vertonghen/Gallas BAE/Vertonghen

Sandro/Huddlestone Parker/VDV

Johnson/Lennon VDV/Ganso Bale/Johnson

Adebayor/Leandro

If we are playing against a team with 1 man up front who have come to park the bus I would change to a 3232 or a 3241 formation.

 

[Black]

------------------Brad

Walker---Kaboul---New guy---Benny

-----------------Sandro------------------

----------Hudd----------------Luka-----

RW---------------------------------Bale


------------------Striker-----------------



Something along them lines

 

[AngerManagement]

so most everyone wants to see us play a 3 man central midfield with a loan striker?

No love for 3 CB's with two wing backs?

and at least one person wants to remove VDV from our system all together

I'm a little wary that Adebayor while great for us doesn't always have the best tough and doesn't stay central enough to really get the best out of VdV like Crouch did and also he isn't as clinical himself as I'd like, would Leandro be better at this? I dunno frankly if we can sign Adebayor I think we should because its hard to see where or how we could get better and the fact he has been settled with us for a year could see the best brought out of him next year

VDV too, I think he went off the boil the same time we did (starting missing chances he used to bury) if he gets into a goal scoring rhythm again our system would be a lot stronger because he is potentially a 15-20 goal a season scorer I believe.

I think we will struggle to keep hold of Modric but must not lose Bale too, if Modric can be kept great but I think it will be more difficult than last year.

We need to bring in in my opinion a GK, CB, I wouldn't say no to another CM if Modric did go, Cover or competition for Lennon (remy seems ideal on paper as he can also cover Ade but I am not so sure he'd be a better option on the right than Lennon because of the tracking back and supporting of Naughton Lennon does)

I want to see us sign Ade and another striker though, someone young and up and coming with potential who might not expect first time football as a given but more importantly I want Redknapp to more effectively use our squad this year and make one or two changes here and there to keep everyone fresh for the whole season

 

[vegassd]

I'm a little wary that Adebayor while great for us doesn't always have the best tough and doesn't stay central enough to really get the best out of VdV like Crouch did and also he isn't as clinical himself as I'd like, would Leandro be better at this? I dunno frankly if we can sign Adebayor I think we should because its hard to see where or how we could get better and the fact he has been settled with us for a year could see the best brought out of him next year

That's it in a nutshell imo. He maybe doesn't get the best out of VdV, but really that should be up to Vdv to sort out! For me, Ade brings so much to our overall play that he is the best signing we could make this Summer.

Formation wise, it needs to be flexible and will depend upon our playing staff come August. I prefer starting with 2 DMs with one given a bit more freedom to roam, 2 wide men and then VdV behind a good striker. It allows for attacking substitutions/formation changes rather than defensive ones (which can throw the whole team out of shape) and has that whole "earn the right to play" thing built into it.

But that system is heavily dependant on a decent lone striker, and that will be heavily dependant upon what Levy can do over the Summer.

 

[dav3j]

4-2-3-1 for me. Our back 7 is sorted already, and will be strengthened with the addition of Vertonghen. If we side Ade we have our ready made lone striker. Lennon on the right, VdV in the middle, Bale on the left. Any additional signings will only improve our options.

 

[AngerManagement]

That's it in a nutshell imo. He maybe doesn't get the best out of VdV, but really that should be up to Vdv to sort out! For me, Ade brings so much to our overall play that he is the best signing we could make this Summer.

Formation wise, it needs to be flexible and will depend upon our playing staff come August. I prefer starting with 2 DMs with one given a bit more freedom to roam, 2 wide men and then VdV behind a good striker. It allows for attacking substitutions/formation changes rather than defensive ones (which can throw the whole team out of shape) and has that whole "earn the right to play" thing built into it.

But that system is heavily dependant on a decent lone striker, and that will be heavily dependant upon what Levy can do over the Summer.

Seriously I think formation should come first and our transfer window shopping should be made to suit the predetermined formation and vision for how we are going to play rather than making signings for whatever good players we can get and then trying to make it work

 

[RichieS]

I think we'll have 3 options, which can all be achieved with the same personnel. Where I've included signings, they're ones that we've been linked with at least quite strongly. I've put them in order of what I think is most to least attacking.

 

[CrazyConrad]

I would sell Modric and attempt to bring in Sahin, Fellaini, Lloris, Vertonghen, Leandro, Remy, and Adebayor.

Also get rid of Defoe, Saha, Nelsen, Gallas, King (unfortunately), GDS, Corluka, Kranjcar, and Gomes.

4-2-3-1 formation:

--------------------------------Lloris/Friedel---------------------------------
Walker/Naughton - Vert/Caulker - Kaboul/Dawson - BAE/Naughton
-------Sandro/Fellaini/Parker----------Sahin/Hudd/Livermore-----------
Lennon/Remy---------------VDV/Pienaar---------Bale/Pienaar---------
-----------------------------Adebayor/Leandro---------------------------

That's called having a SQUAD. And you ROTATE it. We would be about a million times stronger depth wise and a lot better first 11 wise as well imo. Every single name there is good enough to play in a top 4 team imho.

Oh and bring in a coach who will do that, and also organize the team into an effective passing unit. Someone like Brendan Rodgers imo.

I like this but if Modric leaves we need someone in the middle who can control the ball and tempo and create those genious passes - we all saw that we lacked alot of creativity when we played Sandro and Parker in the middle. I belive that Huddlestone can be a gem (like a new signing) in the middle next to someone like Sandro and Parker.

 

[AngerManagement]

Any love for this formation (don't focus on the players as much I was just filling it out without too much thought)

 

[ShelfSide18]

The thing is that formations and systems are nothing without proper, thorough and well detailed coaching - we've played superbly this season in 4-4-2/4-4-1-1/4-2-3-1 & 4-3-3 at one point or another, but the common factor in our best performances has been our off the ball work, the intensity of pressing the ball whether that be high up the pitch or in our own half and our management of the space. Get the system right,( and that can differ between opponents) and ally that to a well organised, drilled and coherent off the ball ethic then we are top 3 material, better than that in fact, we'll run City and Utd closer for far longer in my opinion.

This season I've talked about playing a 4-3-3 system which uses both Sandro and Parker together, one as a more of a sitter, the other as more of a box to box type, because it offers us more control of games which theoretically gives your better players the platform to do the damage in the final third - but this has not been without it's problems which I will get on to in a minute. Redknapp has largely used just Scott Parker (or Sandro) in the centre which on too many occasions has meant we have had less control of games than we should. It doesn't mean we haven't played good football, but even in games like QPR home, Bolton away, West Brom away where we have won and scored 3+ goals there have been periods where we've lost shape and been seriously under the cosh, often hitting them on a ruthless counter attack.

This is the crux for me, as soon as we unleash one of those ferocious counter attacks with Lennon and Bale the 10 minutes before get instantly forgotten, just like at Bolton/QPR home/West Brom away. There's no doubting of the quality of goal scored, but I don't think this is what the top teams do because over the course of a season you will drop points, those periods of being under the cosh will tell as much as we'll score some sensational counter attacks. I'm not saying being able to counter is a bad thing, Utd and Arsenal were masters of the counter attack and we are pretty damn good at it (Lennon in the San Siro/VDV Villa my favourites), but they are also very good at ball domination and strangling the life out of teams - something we have shown we are more than capable of doing ourselves.

We can get so dragged out of shape playing in this manner, Scott Parker is charged with covering so many shifts that he is pulled all around the midfield putting out fires, and because our off the ball organisation can be very poor, we consequently lose shape. At the Emirates Arsenal's passing completely ruined our shape, Bolton got the upper hand for 15 minutes a few weeks ago when we lost shape and don't get me started on Norwich or Man City at home. On the other hand, when we have gone with Parker and Sandro we rarely lose shape, because they cover the space so well - Norwich was a great performance where he had total control, and we went to Stamford Bridge and only woeful finishing meant we didn't take the spoils in the most controlled display there I have seen. We strangled the life out of them that day, that's the European Champions by the way.

We can be so fucking good at times, but we can also be so bad and that is the difference. Every team has bad days, Utd lost 6-1 to City at home lets not forget, but the reason they are where they are is because they have less bad days than us, and when they don't click on the ball they nearly always do the minimum required off it to not get overwhelmed. Look at both our squads, there's not 20 points difference between us. For the chocolate teapot midfield to work, it needs to be better organised, press the ball with a higher intensity, not allow the opposition free reign between our lines of defence and midfield, and when we lose the ball there is maximum effort to get back into position quickly, not stroll around the gaff because your rated 85+ on Fifa. The reason VDV is a winner is because he does this the best out of our creative players, the reason Bale isn't because he doesn't do this nearly enough.

Let's look at some stats if your not bored already...

Playing with just one of Parker or Sandro we have played 27 times, we have won 16, drawn 3 and lost 8.
Playing with both Sandro and Parker, 11 games in total, yielded 4 wins, 6 draws and 1 loss.

There are issues with both systems here.

We lose far too many games playing with just 1 of Sandro and Parker, almost a 3rd of games (29.6%) which over a season translates to around 12/13 games, City and United lost 5 each. In contrast we won 59.2% of games like this, which isn't a bad return but something we should be improving, naturally. What this tells me is pretty much what I expected, it's far too much of a lottery, we win a decent percentage but lose far too much. As much as it can blow and opponent away, it is also far too susceptible to being got at.

When we field both Sandro and Parker we become instantly harder to beat, we lost 1 in 11 which is just under 10%, translating to 3/4 losses a season which would be fantastic - the problem being our win percentage drops with this set-up, down to 36.4% which is not good enough.

So what do we do, well the answer to me is actually quite simple, when we play just 1 of the 2 then off the ball we need to be a lot better, press the ball, close space down and retreat back into shape quicker than we do now. When we play with both Sandro and Parker our on the ball game needs to be better, because this inevitably leads to us dominating sides higher up the pitch and having a monopoly on the ball, we have less final third space to work in so we need to move better and with more intelligence, I've been saying how we need another brain in the team for a while now. I think that Sloth has a very good point when he says that our attacking combinations and movement need improving too, rather than Redknapp essentially letting them work it out for themselves which is better when you have more space to operate in.

There is no one size catch all formation, although I personally lean towards the 4-3-3 formation because I think it is the most adaptable and fluid and best to counter what you get thrown most weeks in the EPL, but ultimately the basic stuff that we do occasionally but not regularly is what is holding us back, and must be improved next season.

 

[RichieS]

Any love for this formation (don't focus on the players as much I was just filling it out without too much thought)

Certainly an option - 3-5-2 isn't as dead as some would have you believe. Walker and, to a lesser extent, Bale are born wing-backs so we have the players.

 

[ShelfSide18]

Any love for this formation (don't focus on the players as much I was just filling it out without too much thought)

3 man defences are generally best when coming up against 2 men strikeforces, because of the spare man. Up against 1 striker 1 defender is occupied, one is the spare man, one is left redundant. It worked for us like a dream away at Stoke in the second half but it couldn't find a way past Chris Foy in the end.

It certainly can work in the right applications, it worked wonders for Wigan this season and as it's so unconventional it poses new questions to managers that they're not used to answering. Even Mancini had trouble with Napoli and their 3 man defence in the CL, and the guy is Italian who theoretically should know them better than most.

 

[hellava_tough]

Good thread

First and foremost, this is the formation I'd go for:

----------GK---------

RB----CB---CB----LB

----------DM--------

------CM---CM-----

RW--------------LW

----------ST---------

For me, the DM is the most important player in the side and someone who has to be an excellent passer of the ball. As a dedicated holding player, he sits infront of the central defence but also covers the full-backs when they go forward. Also, many of the attacks will start with the DM and his range of passing - if he's dropping balls behind the opposition full-backs for our pacy wingers to run onto, then it instantly forces the opposition back and negates some of their attacking threat.

The 2 CMs should both be box-to-box players, covering plenty of ground every match. You'd also hope that at least one of them would pop up with 10-12 league goals a season, which is something we've missed recently.

The two wingers are also important. They should be pacy and intelligent with their movement, to compliment the DMs passing range. They should be looking to run at and behind the opposition full-back at every opportunity and 100% not drift into the middle of the park, where we already have 3 midfield players operating. Since we'd only be playing with 1 striker, the wingers would also have to support him (e.g. if an attack is coming down the left, then the right winger needs to get into the box alongside the striker. In turn, the right full-back pushes up to take his place wide right, outside the opposition penalty area. If the opposition breaks quickly, we've still got our dedicated DM to try and cover for any players out of position).

So that brings us to the ST. Obviously we'd all like to see a ST with the attributes of Brazilian Ronaldo in the late 90s. But failing that, I'd like to see someone who is quick and accurate with his shooting. Even if the guy didn't have anything else in his locker, at least he'd be vaguely dangerous, given enough chances (lol)

So that's how I'd set things up

I also think that 4-1-2-2-1 allows squad players to slot into the respective positions fairly easily. It's fairly solid as a formation and versatile too - you can add more or less defensive/attacking minded players into it depending on the oppositon.

In terms of our current personel, this is how I'd set up:

---------------Freidel------------

Walker--Kaboul--Dawson--BAE

---------------Hudd**-------------

---------Sandro--Modric*--------

Lennon-----------------------Bale

----------------Ade---------------


*Modric would be told to absolutely NOT pick the ball up from deep, and to work on his shooting in training.

**Hudd has his limitations and we could possible upgrade him, but for now his range of passing is outstanding.

Obviously the problem with this formation is that it doesn't include VDV, which is a real shame because I believe he's a great player and a joy to watch. However, it's a sacrifce I'd be willing to make if it meant that our over-all team was more solid and versatile.

Anyway, what do you guys think?