Ratings Vs Man Utd

theShiznit · Jan 2, 2014

Mr Pink said:
Can't say I agree with much of that BC. The bottom line is we created far better chances than they did. Had we taken them we could of embarrassed them. Sherwood was right to set up to get at their back line.

United may have had, like Wenger would say, 'sterile domination'....but they really did fuck all with it until the last twenty minutes when we sat deeper - losing Adebayor was integral to that. Amazing how we can all see it so differently.

Agree on the Capoue sub mind you but how an earth can you not enjoy the fact that we created much better chances than they did? Had we scored four goals tonight would you still be unsatisfied?

This post was absolutely spot on.

That first post was dogshit though.

Bus-Conductor · Jan 2, 2014

Mr Pink said:
Can't say I agree with much of that BC. The bottom line is we created far better chances than they did. Had we taken them we could of embarrassed them. Sherwood was right to set up to get at their back line.

United may have had, like Wenger would say, 'sterile domination'....but they really did fuck all with it until the last twenty minutes when we sat deeper - losing Adebayor was integral to that. Amazing how we can all see it so differently.

Agree on the Capoue sub mind you but how an earth can you not enjoy the fact that we created much better chances than they did? Had we scored four goals tonight would you still be unsatisfied?

The point is, them not doing anything with it, was down to them, more than us. I don't think that's great. And to claim that as a good "plan" well executed is stupid. IMO of course.

You can get men behind the ball, but still press from he front. Teams have come to WHL and done it well to us this year. If we'd have won the ball a bit higher up the pitch occasionally more often we might have canned them. They were there for picking off in the second half.

If we'd have pressed the ball better (Eriksen and Rose) they might not have scored at all.

Bus-Conductor · Jan 2, 2014

Spurger King said:
I thought it was a hell of a lot better than our win there under AVB. Across the whole of the game we were the better team...just about. They dominated the first 15 minutes, and put a lot of pressure on in the last 10, but for the bit in the middle we were the ones on the front foot taking the game to them. Not discrediting our win there under AVB, but for that we pretty much capitulated for the lion's share of the 2nd half. That really was a case of sitting back and letting them come at us.

Ok ratings...

MotM for me was Lloris. Chiriches, Adebayor, and Eriksen were all great today, but for me Lloris rose to the occasion when we were under pressure superbly.

Walker really is an underrated player. He generally did well today, though his passing is highly questionable at times.

Dawson is frustrating and commendable in equal measures. A bit erratic at times, but for the most part he put in a decent, battling performance.

Chiriches - Very good today. Not great positioning for their goal, but on the whole that was one if his best games for us.

Rose - bit of a shambles at time really. I don't rate his defensive qualities very highly at all.

Dembele - didn't start well, but gradually got into the game.

Capoue - his passing seems to have gone to pot, but from a defensive point of view he did a good job.

Lennon - should have scored...possibly twice...but generally I thought he had a good game.

Eriksen - an assist, and the winning goal. I think he's still finding his feet, but played a massive part.

Soldado - disappointed with his miss, but his passing and awareness today was first class.

Ade - what a player he is when he's in this sort of form. At times he was absolutely brilliant.

Bentaleb - generally pretty composed. Didn't do much wrong.

Chadli - fairly anonymous.

Kane - good to see Sherwood throw him in at the deep end. Solid, if unspectacular.

Sherwood - picked the best team available. Showing a lot of faith in our younger players, and it was clear that he encouraged the side to get at them. Not many managers get three points at Old Trafford, so that really was quite an achievement so early on in his career.

So you reckon for over an hour of that game we were "taking it to them" ?

You know we were the one's in white ?

Bobbins · Jan 2, 2014

Bus-Conductor said:
That was brilliant, what a wonderful performance, tactical genius. We've got our Tottenham back, playing the Tottenham way, the way the fans want to see them play.

If you believe that, you probably believe in Santa and the fucking tooth fairy. And you are probably marking everyone 8's, 9's and 10's.

The unpalatable truth is that that was a pretty dire performance from start to finish. We controlled none of it, not even defensively, we didn't even press properly. We just sat deep and surrendered the ball. They were allowed time and acres of space all over the pitch and I can't remember a game, any game, any time, when so many crosses were allowed into a penalty box without the slightest pressure on the ball. We had four shots on target, all created on the break and got extremely lucky that two found the net and that this Utd are a shadow of the old Utd.

I don't mind dropping the high line but some sort of line would be good. And we have reverted to not pressing the ball at all. Lennon wasted a brilliant chance and got very lucky his cross deflected and and slowed so Eriksen could dart in and score. I don't think he roasted Evra once, and saw the ball less than everyone else in our side - one of the many reasons we had so little of the game.

Eriksen saw the most ball of anyone, set up a goal and scored a real poachers goal. A good contribution but gave Rose so little help.

I think the Capoue sub was mental. By all means bring Bentaleb on but take off an attacker and give us some semblance of competition in the middle of the pitch.

Sherwoods tactics are, so far, scarily identical to Redknapp's, and even his pre match is starting to sound the same "it's just about the players going out there and enjoying themselves". No it fucking isn't.

I love see in players express themselves, but I also want to see them work hard off the ball, press properly, and defend and attack coherently too.

Great win. Like last year's was a great win. Neither were great performances.

Individual stuff

Lloris - Some poor decisions, like punching outside and flying out to Young, but a couple of good saves. Very mixed bag.

Walker - Defensively good today. Hilarious flap/clap at ball sailing over his head. He does know he's not Uri Geller right ?

Dawson - Dawson

Chiriches - A very decent performance (After recent games quite unexpected) under immense pressure. Beautiful ball out of defence for the second goal, took ManU out of the game.

Rose - Wasn't great, and allowed shitloads of ball into our box, but Eriksen gave him very little help and he was exposed quite a lot.

Lennon - Some may be bamboozled by two or three eye catching moments (followed on most cases by the usual wastage) did well to get into position for the second goal but very lucky his cross bounces off their guy. Must be more involved in games.

Capoue - Tough place to make your first start in CM for a while and started very shakily, but gradually grew into the game. Still not outstanding, but did a pretty good job on Rooney and shouldn't have gone off IMO.

Dembele - OK.

Eriksen - Real sharp bit of poaching for his goal and a decent ball for Adebayor. Also saw more ball than anyone else in our side. Needed to help Rose much more.

Adebayor - Looked like his head was pickled first 20 minutes, then scored then was everywhere putting in a good shift.

Soldado - Worked hard, ball of the game for Lennon.

I really hope these first few games aren't indicative of what's ahead. Good one week, shit the next, often good and shit all in the same 90. I know "they" will enjoy it. It just doesn't do it for me.

Oh come on, even you can give Dawson more praise than that for once - it was almost certainly his best performance of the season. He wasn't faultless, but for parts of the game, particularly the first 10/15 minutes, he was practically the last line of defence every time.

As for the rest of it, I understand your point, but we won, and could've won by more. In truth 3-3 was probably a fair result based on the chances created. And playing the way you want us to saw us regularly smashed out of grounds and also cleverly mugged off by Wenger, who took your pressing approaching and shoved it down our throats with lightning counter-attacks. And you loved that away to Arsenal performance, loved it!

Mr Pink · Jan 2, 2014

Bus-Conductor said:
The point is, them not doing anything with it, was down to them, more than us. I don't think that's great. And to claim that as a good "plan" well executed is stupid. IMO of course.

You can get men behind the ball, but still press from he front. Teams have come to WHL and done it well to us this year. If we'd have won the ball a bit higher up the pitch occasionally more often we might have canned them. They were there for picking off in the second half.

If we'd have pressed the ball better (Eriksen and Rose) they might not have scored at all.

I agree to an extent - it was their inability to capitalise, however Sherwood has acknowledged that it was far from perfect. I liked the way he spoke after the game.

But the overriding point here, IMO of course, is that we created the better chances - and had we taken a few of them we could of won comprehensively.

Bus-Conductor · Jan 2, 2014

mpickard2087 said:
I would agree that its one thing saying and another doing, not sure why or how AVB comes into it though... AVB used to talk some right twaddle after games, he would often talk of immense performances when the evidence was anything but. Of course it is early days with Tim and Co. and who knows what will happen, but I expected him to come out after todays match and be full of praise but to hear him call some of our play poor at least gives me some hope that he has a good understanding of the game and what we need to do to play well and win, and has high standards that he wants us to meet.

It's 4 games in so early days, but a feature of 3 of them has been a distinct lack of pressing, particularly from the front.

We live in hope.

Mr Pink · Jan 2, 2014

And lets have it right, how many times can we say that we've been to OT and created the better chances? When?

Last season, they pummelled us the whole of the second half - far more nerve wrecking than that tonight, and yes they created way more than us in that game.

spurnut · Jan 2, 2014

Where's the Howard Webb option? Thought he played a blinder tonight must have killed him to not give manure a pen

double0 · Jan 2, 2014

Great result against a ManU strongest available team. In terms of possession football I was uncomfortable in how we were not able to retain then build our attacks with the ball, during large parts of the game we had to defend which we did well enough and when the opportunities arise I thought our attacks were swift, which leads the thinking behind our tactics for the game and player characteristics within the squad-hats off to TS it proved to be stop on.

Ideally long term I'd prefer better ball retention in games but of course I'm happy with the result and TS comments regarding this.

The game last season under AVB we still had to weather waves of attacks from Man U so we can't be snobbish as a team we battled well.

Lloris. 8 proactive
Walker. 8 disciplined and dealt well with Uniteds wing threat with due diligent help from Lennon. Thought his throw ins though were poor not finding a team mate.
Dawson. 7.5 didn't have to worry about the high line which was the right tactics. defended well enough though very weak in the air I thought.
Chiriches 8.5 overall good though along with dawson dealt poorly with their goal
Rose.7 tough assignment second half came through ok not shamed.
Dembele. 7
Capoue. 7
Lennon. 8.5 underrated good game
Eriksen. 8 assist and goal
Ade 8.5 great goal held the ball well all our good play he was involved.
Soldado. 7 general play was good should have scored

Subs
Benteleb 7 contolled for such a young player
Kane. 7 good thinking to kick ball away
Chadli 7

Sherwood 10 win at OT.

Spurs_Bear · Jan 2, 2014

Bus-Conductor said:
There is saying and there is doing. AVB got called a fraud. Sherwood better deliver all these platitudes he's chucking at microphones or the football fraud squad will come a knocking.

AVB had 18 months.

Sherwood has had 18 minutes.

Mr Pink · Jan 2, 2014

Spurs_Bear said:
AVB had 18 months.

Sherwood has had 18 minutes.

Bear lets have your thoughts on da match!

bomberH · Jan 2, 2014

Bus-Conductor said:
Great win. Like last year's was a great win. Neither were great performances.

I think you're doing both performances injustice. Last year, to beat Fergie's Utd at their place for the first time in 853 years was amazing. And after the recent hammerings against top teams, this result is amazing too. Unless you're City, no team is going to go to Utd and dominate. There will always be a backs to the wall spell, whether it's for 10 minutes or half hour. They may not be the same force this year but they had still won 6 in a row, as they had last year when we beat them.

While I agree we shouldn't get overexcited over one result, at the same time we shouldn't poo poo it either. In an ideal world we'd go there, dominate possession, outplay them for 90 minutes, score several goals etc but considering we've recently lost by 5-0 and 6-0, to go to Utd and win by any means is a massive result.

All this without regulars Sandro, Vertonghen and Paulinho as well as still being without Kaboul, and no option of Townsend or Defoe (who would've taken Kane's place on the bench if fit) etc. Whereas they only had RVP out. Considering all of the above, I think we deserve lots of praise. We weren't perfect, Sherwood knows this, but credit where it's due. We've probably created more genuine goal scoring chances in the last 3 games than we have in the previous 10/15 league games. If you can't take delight in this, it's gonna be a shit few months for you until LVG takes charge ;-)

Bobbins · Jan 2, 2014

yankspurs said:
BC is absolutely right. We had no control of the ball out there. All our chances were on counter attacking. But we should have been up 3-0 at least after the first half. Soldado and Lennon should have each put their chances away.

I fail to see how:

1 - these two points correlate.
2 - us playing so well we should've been three up by half time as a bad thing.

Spurs_Bear · Jan 2, 2014

Mr Pink said:
Bear lets have your thoughts on da match!

Can't mate, still in Thigh-land and wasn't able to find any naughty streams available, the only thing they had on was some NFL on the US version of Fox Sports. From what I've read though it seems it's the old adage of 'less possession equals less control', which I don't agree with in theory but obviously can't comment on this individual game. Have to admit though I was monumentally shocked when I read the scoreline when I woke up, I've only seen some of the Stoke game which I thought we played well in and the Soton one which looked like a free for all but liking the cut of Sherwood's jib in front of the cameras.

His lack of experience doesn't bother me either, he has experience of the club which I think matters, plus he's certainly not set in his ways. Redknapp for me was too old to change his ways and wasn't really interested in changing what he thought was right, if we can have someone who has a similar outlook on attacking football but also has the ambition to adapt and better himself (not saying Sherwood definitely IS that man but he could be), then that could suit us down to the ground. I don't think we are as attractive a proposition to potential managers as we fans might think we are.

Ghost Hardware · Jan 2, 2014

I am really dreading the day when decision start going against Lloris. He is a fantastic keeper but there have been quite a few times this season where he has "gotten away with it". Hopefully when Jan is back things will get a lot more stable at the back.

voxy28 · Jan 2, 2014

Frankly I was totally not impress with the pressing in the 1st half and Sherwood substitutions....

Spurs_Bear · Jan 2, 2014

voxy28 said:
Frankly I was totally not impress with the pressing in the 1st half and Sherwood substitutions....

Would you have brought Lamela on...?

ripley · Jan 2, 2014

Ratings:

UTD before game: (_*_)

UTD after game: (_0_)

XSuicideBunnyX · Jan 2, 2014

Spurs_Bear said:
Would you have brought Lamela on...?

I don't think anyone would have brought Lamela on, especially after we conceded the goal and the control of the game. And I think the Sherwood substitutions looked strange at first glance. Bentaleb on for our defensive midfelder? And Kane for Soldado was a clear admission of "we're going to hang on tight". The Adebayor sub was forced, so I think that was fine. If only we hadn't conceded their goal, then we'd have been crusing, and Lamela would have had a chance for a good run out. Oh well.

voxy28 · Jan 2, 2014

Spurs_Bear said:
Would you have brought Lamela on...?

I probably would had played Lamela left and move Eriksen behind the striker going 4411 and keep more possession.... Kane was strolling after coming on and I thought Capoue played well pressing the MF. I seriously don't know why Bentelab and Kane would had changed or improved our game. I was pulling out my hair when TS made those subs....

Anyway a win is OT is still a great results. Hope Sherwood knows what he is doing.

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