The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

THFCSPURS19 said:

Sorry, but I really think this is inaccurate. In fact, when watching Winks, I think the complete opposite - he's very capable of accelerating/bursting through the midfield. He's quite quick for a CM.

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You're confusing powerful running with nimble acceleration. Some players are light on their feet and can manoeuvre in tight spaces with players at their back (Ericksen, Alli, Son), and some are built for powerful bursts over distance. Onomah is an example of a players that excels at powerful running but looks like a bambi on ice when playing in tight areas of the pitch without the space to charge into. Its not to say that Winks has slow feet or that he's a cart horse but I just don't see him as having the agility, hip movement, jinks, twists and turns of a player that's strengths will be accentuated playing higher up the pitch. There's also an element of flair that comes into it. A player needs to be able to use a piece of skill to throw a defender off balance and I just don't see Winks as that kind of player. He's a very good metronome (a phrase I realise I use a lot - but as an attribute its highly underrated) playing in the centre of the pitch with maximum angles to pass/burst into. The more crowded the area, with the less pitch to play into you move Winks into the more you limit his game.

Totally disagree re winks.Fir me he always looks the brightest on the pitch with quick movement and nimble feet.Reminds me a lot of coutinho in his movement.Stick by what I said think he could easily be AM.He looks much more nimble than eriksen for example.

mill said:

kirby's just come on for palace against West Brom

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Not surprised, De Boer imo will bleed him through, it also helps he is the jewel of Palace's academy they can focus on him

winks just doesn't think or move like an am, i like him where he is.

Krule said:

Anybody wonder why Marcus Edwards wasn't on the plane to the USA ??.....maybe this article goes some way to explaining :
http://playingfor90.com/2017/07/21/tottenham-locked-contract-standoff-marcus-edwards/

Hope we manage to keep him....really promising young talent.

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The suggestion that Spurs are trying to hide his talent seems dubious to me. It seems more sensible to take him and encourage him to sign a contract by giving him a chance to mix and play with first team players. How much he actually played for the under 19s is irrelevant to me. It is more likely that,for him, the mid season window was shortened and they gave the lad time off to fit in a holiday.

I think he will stay and may be one of those who is loaned out. Coming straight from the academy into the first team squad like Harry Winks is not a regular happening.

COYS

jamesinashby said:

The suggestion that Spurs are trying to hide his talent seems dubious to me. It seems more sensible to take him and encourage him to sign a contract by giving him a chance to mix and play with first team players. How much he actually played for the under 19s is irrelevant to me. It is more likely that,for him, the mid season window was shortened and they gave the lad time off to fit in a holiday.

I think he will stay and may be one of those who is loaned out. Coming straight from the academy into the first team squad like Harry Winks is not a regular happening.

COYS

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Its standard practice now that clubs have realised how badly burned you can be by the Bosman ruling. There's no doubt that Levy is never going to take the chance again to develop a player only for them to walk away to one of our rivals for absolutely nothing. It may sound harsh or counter-productive but most clubs take this attitude. Look at Everton's golden boy Ross Barkely. There's no sentiment there, he's running down his contract and they have no intention of letting him do it. If he won't sign a new deal then he either leaves for a fee or warms the bench. But he doesn't get to use them as a stepping stone. I wish this wasn't happening with Edwards, I really do. But I also understand why it is happening. He, understandably, feels that he can't give ground because he simply can't trust the club with the next three or four years of his career especially when, in his mind, they've not really given him a shot. We feel that he isn't committed to the club and don't want to polish up his talent by giving him chances only for him to refuse a new contract next summer and walk away to a Premier League rival as one of the hottest properties in football.

What's the solution? Well, clearly someone needs to give way but that'll require a lot of faith and trust on someone's part and its hard to see who will be willing to do that. The club have the least leeway because in 12 short months he can leave for nothing more than compensation. Its just too easy for us to get our fingers burnt. He can't commit to the length of contract that the club will undoubtedly want him to sign.

What's the solution? Well, sensible heads would agree that clearly he's not going to sign for four years but he might sign an extension for one with an optional second year as long as he has been given certain, clear, objective opportunities in the Premier League. This might constitute a guarantee of, say, no less than three Premier League starts and no less than twelve substitute appearances not constituting less than 180 minutes (which equates to an average of 15 minute cameos) per season over the next two seasons. That's not to say he couldn't play more but that he would legitimately be able to turn to the club in 12 months and say "I didn't ask for the world, just a handful of opportunities and you failed to provide that. As a result I have no option but to see out this last 12 months and then leave for free." The problem with that is that then he's back to square one for that last season where he won't sign and we won't play him but a possible solution would be, as part of the small print in his new deal, that we could agree that if he rejects the option to extent the deal and informs us that he's leaving then we are obligated to sell him for not more than an agreed fee of, say, £7m with add ons.

Now this is all highly speculative and no doubt deeply problematic from a legal perspective but it seems clear that without some give and take from both sides we're heading for the conclusion that none of us wanted.

Spurzinho said:

Its standard practice now that clubs have realised how badly burned you can be by the Bosman ruling. There's no doubt that Levy is never going to take the chance again to develop a player only for them to walk away to one of our rivals for absolutely nothing. It may sound harsh or counter-productive but most clubs take this attitude. Look at Everton's golden boy Ross Barkely. There's no sentiment there, he's running down his contract and they have no intention of letting him do it. If he won't sign a new deal then he either leaves for a fee or warms the bench. But he doesn't get to use them as a stepping stone. I wish this wasn't happening with Edwards, I really do. But I also understand why it is happening. He, understandably, feels that he can't give ground because he simply can't trust the club with the next three or four years of his career especially when, in his mind, they've not really given him a shot. We feel that he isn't committed to the club and don't want to polish up his talent by giving him chances only for him to refuse a new contract next summer and walk away to a Premier League rival as one of the hottest properties in football.

What's the solution?

Now this is all highly speculative and no doubt deeply problematic from a legal perspective but it seems clear that without some give and take from both sides we're heading for the conclusion that none of us wanted.

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I'm not au fait with these contracts, but something along the lines you are suggesting makes sense to me.

COYS

The Apprentice said:

Onomah' a big boy isn't he. CCV is a unit and Josh makes him look small.

Looking forward to seeing a Winks/Onomah pivot at some point this season.

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Exactly what I thght. How tall is Josh? I thght ccv was 5.11. Josh must be 6.3 at least

Our U21's fixture for Tournament in France

Strong rumours that we're in for a couple of Leyton Orient youngsters. I'm sure everyone knows their plight over the last few years under the lunatic menace that was their last chairman. Well anyway, one of the bright sides was that their highly productive youth system was able to pump out talent after talent to fill out the gaps in the first team.

The two we're interested in are prolific striker Tristan Abrahams (18) (scored bundles for the youth side & got 2 in 9 for the first team since debuting, he's scored about six already in pre-season) and very Tottenham-esque midfielder Steven Alzate (18), by Tottenham-esque I mean lovely dribbler, good passing, good balance - I'd compare him in style to Kirby.

They've got some cracking youngsters there at the moment. Centre Backs Michael Clarke (19) & Dan Happe (18) look very composed, Josh Koroma (18) is an exciting winger & strikers Sam Dalby (17) & Ruel Sotiriou (17) are both excellent, the first gangly but strong and the second fast and a clinical finisher who seems to score at least two per game at youth level.

We'll have to move fast on Abrahams & Koroma as Palace & Brighton are in for both.

Spurzinho said:

You're confusing powerful running with nimble acceleration. Some players are light on their feet and can manoeuvre in tight spaces with players at their back (Ericksen, Alli, Son), and some are built for powerful bursts over distance. Onomah is an example of a players that excels at powerful running but looks like a bambi on ice when playing in tight areas of the pitch without the space to charge into. Its not to say that Winks has slow feet or that he's a cart horse but I just don't see him as having the agility, hip movement, jinks, twists and turns of a player that's strengths will be accentuated playing higher up the pitch. There's also an element of flair that comes into it. A player needs to be able to use a piece of skill to throw a defender off balance and I just don't see Winks as that kind of player. He's a very good metronome (a phrase I realise I use a lot - but as an attribute its highly underrated) playing in the centre of the pitch with maximum angles to pass/burst into. The more crowded the area, with the less pitch to play into you move Winks into the more you limit his game.

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You hve a good turn of phrase but your assessment of Winks' mobility is baffling. Those tight spaces are exactly his forte, twisting, turning, battling, laying it off quickly.

Apparently a rumour is going around that Edwards has rejected a new contract offering him a £5k a week pay rise.

Any one heard this?

cliff jones said:

You hve a good turn of phrase but your assessment of Winks' mobility is baffling. Those tight spaces are exactly his forte, twisting, turning, battling, laying it off quickly.

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If you can't tell the difference between an Ericksen and a Dembele then I don't know what to tell you. Nimbleness is not the same as power and pace, yes? Fast feet are not the same as powerful legs, yes? The ability turn in short circles whilst maintaining your balance is different to a wide turn whilst holding some off before bursting past them when you've got them on the half turn, yes? The half turn is exactly when Winks & Dembele like to power past someone. The closer you get to the opposition's goal the less likely an opposition player is to allow themselves to be half turned because its a terrible position to get into. This isn't complicated stuff.

nicdic said:

Apparently a rumour is going around that Edwards has rejected a new contract offering him a £5k a week pay rise.

Any one heard this?

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If he is being offered even treble that, I believe he is gone, along with other terms. The club cannot sit on their high horses with this one. The world has changed, like it or not.

nicdic said:

Apparently a rumour is going around that Edwards has rejected a new contract offering him a £5k a week pay rise.

Any one heard this?

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probably just repeating this from a few weeks ago

https://twitter.com/lilywhite_rose/status/879786829934972928

Just been looking at the training pics from the States and one thing that strikes me is Josh Onomah, who has seemingly jumped from a boy into a man in the space of a few months and looks like a real beast.
I was a bit worried about him last season as he seemed to be treading water but now I really think Josh is going to start making a big impression, and just hope he gets the opportunities to shine. Can see a PL loan coming up, possibly in the second half of the season but I predict he will impress in the League Cup and make people sit up and take notice of his undoubted talent.

Funny how people view different players.Spurzinho really respect your opinions but have to disagree on this.For me winks is nothing like dembele in any way.Dembele is a total one off for me ,can't think of another player in EPL to compare him too.But I honestly see a lot of winks in coutinho and silva.Fir me he is very quick over 5 yards great balance and importantly realise it very quickly.A reason dembele never made AM.The unknown would be his goal scoring ability.If onomah s progress is real and not a flash in pan for me winks further forward is the obvious solution especially as we are light there.Eventually they could make a great CM duo with onomah the deep sitter.But for now I can't see another solution to accomadate them both.

With our attack recharged anything is possible. If Kane stays fit and bangs in the goals we will be up there.

I think man u will be the ones. They barely lost and Jose has reverted to type with a drogba clone up front

elDiablo said:

With our attack recharged anything is possible. If Kane stays fit and bangs in the goals we will be up there.

I think man u will be the ones. They barely lost and Jose has reverted to type with a drogba clone up front

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Drogba had a lot more all round game than lukaku will ever have in imo