The Daily ITK Discussion Thread 1st December 2018

HildoSpur said:

I don't know about that - I'd much rather bring Skipp through and give him a chance than bring in an over-payed and overrated player on loan who is barely interested.

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Spot on.

I think the ITK points towards us having definitive targets - I personally do ‘t Have any problem with that. Rather that than signing our plan B or C. The problem is securing those targets obviously.

HildoSpur said:

I don't know about that - I'd much rather bring Skipp through and give him a chance than bring in an over-payed and overrated player on loan who is barely interested.

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Well, obviously noone would disagree with that. But what if we could bring in some real quality in CM and win something?

It’s what I’ve been saying all season. Getting players out this window is the most important thing else we will have the same problem as this summer. Even Poch has come out and said it now.

Johnny J said:

Well, obviously noone would disagree with that. But what if we could bring in some real quality in CM and win something?

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Sure I'm all for that - if we can get a really good quality midfielder on a permanent transfer then great.

HildoSpur said:

I don't know about that - I'd much rather bring Skipp through and give him a chance than bring in an over-payed and overrated player on loan who is barely interested.

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Well in that case don’t moan about not winning trophies, you can’t have it both ways. I’m all for bringing youth players through but not at the expensive of losing our level of quality in CM. If you seriously are saying you’d rather have Skipp than Kovacic that’s crazy. First of all, The Croatian hasn’t been that bad. To say he isn’t interested or over rated is incorrect. With the benefit of hindsight your POV may not sounds so wild right now, but if you’d said that last summer you’d have been driven to the insane asylum! I get that loan players aren’t ideal, we should be aiming for perm transfers, but the fact is we need quality and experience in there.

If people want to flood our first team squad with academy kids go ahead, but don’t expect us to win major trophies.

Primativ said:

Well in that case don’t moan about not winning trophies, you can’t have it both ways. I’m all for bringing youth players through but not at the expensive of losing our level of quality in CM. If you seriously are saying you’d rather have Skipp than Kovacic that’s crazy. First of all, The Croatian hasn’t been that bad. To say he isn’t interested or over rated is incorrect. With the benefit of hindsight your POV may not sounds so wild right now, but if you’d said that last summer you’d have been driven to the insane asylum!

If people want to flood our first team squad with academy kids go ahead, but don’t expect us to win major trophies.

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Would I rather blood a talented young player than loan in somebody who may be better quality? Yes I would. If that makes me mad then fine - like I said above I am fine with us buying a quality midfielder because we need one - I am not supportive of loaning in somebody who is only with us to try and get games for a move elsewhere rather than a kid from the academy who is desperate to play for the club who if given the chance could be a good player.

January is not really the best time to buy players that we really need. Once summer comes then I'll be hoping we spend big on great players just like everybody else will be but I'm also realistic about where we are right now.

doctor stefan Freud said:

Might be something we have to review now that we’re struggling to get the next level player

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Yes. But I rather fear that the club’s profile isn’t quite there yet.
We all know that firstly we’d need to spend £75m per player to get the calibre of player to improve the first team (as Pool did with vD and the keeper) ((although that money looks like a very well spent bargain now!))
Not sure if we’re in aposition to drop that per player
But then as we’ve been hearing from ITK, the top level of player still see other clubs above us in terms of fulfilling their aspirations.
We’re just not quite there yet!
For us it is absolutely paramount that we keep trying to close that gap and keep what we have. Talk of CE, TA and worst MP leaving (fact, fiction or down right stirring) needs to be stopped.
I do agree with the other posters, at this time we should be scouting more effectively for the up and coming level below. Son, Dele the perfect success stories.
Tricky position atm. Need to be sensible and keep winning consistently

Mr Pink said:

The thing that perplexes me, slightly anyway, is that we should be a seriously attractive proposition now, and not just for young up and coming players, but seasoned pros as well.

We have come a long way in the last five years, playing a style of football that has most neutrals drooling over, and a manager who improves just about everyone he works with.

We have the long term infrastructure slotting into place with the new stadium/training facilities and the overall landscape surrounding the Club looks pretty as hell.

All we need is a few Quality additions to make that final step and we're potentially there.

Obviously it's never easy trying to improve a very good squad as it is, and I know we're hamstrung to an extent with the new stadium and what monies we're prepared to pay - although we'll never know the intricate detail on such - but I'm at a loss as to why we only ever hear negative snippets regarding potential signings.

Should we not be trying desperately to ride the crest of this wave before we're dismantled by our so called rivals?

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Agree, it’s better to add players when in a position of strength. Trying to get a natural turnover happening. Keep it all ticking over. Even the youngsters coming in don’t look to out of place when you’ve got a very good functioning team and everyone knows what they are doing. If you take two or three important cogs out of the team and even more out of the squad and try and replace them all in one go you’re asking for trouble. For me it’s very short sighted of the club, negligent/arrogant even.

I'm all for having our primary targets and not wasting money but if after 3 transfer windows we can't get any of them then we will need to change our approach.

spursfan77 said:

It’s what I’ve been saying all season. Getting players out this window is the most important thing else we will have the same problem as this summer. Even Poch has come out and said it now.

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Can’t we work on it simultaneously. Surely we could of been setting up deals from the start of the season until now anyway.

Primativ said:

Well in that case don’t moan about not winning trophies, you can’t have it both ways. I’m all for bringing youth players through but not at the expensive of losing our level of quality in CM. If you seriously are saying you’d rather have Skipp than Kovacic that’s crazy. First of all, The Croatian hasn’t been that bad. To say he isn’t interested or over rated is incorrect. With the benefit of hindsight your POV may not sounds so wild right now, but if you’d said that last summer you’d have been driven to the insane asylum! I get that loan players aren’t ideal, we should be aiming for perm transfers, but the fact is we need quality and experience in there.

If people want to flood our first team squad with academy kids go ahead, but don’t expect us to win major trophies.

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Man united had six Academy players in their multi cup winning team.

allatsea said:

Man united had six Academy players in their multi cup winning team.

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Barca was built on Academy kids too.

HildoSpur said:

Would I rather blood a talented young player than loan in somebody who may be better quality? Yes I would. If that makes me mad then fine - like I said above I am fine with us buying a quality midfielder because we need one - I am not supportive of loaning in somebody who is only with us to try and get games for a move elsewhere rather than a kid from the academy who is desperate to play for the club who if given the chance could be a good player.

January is not really the best time to buy players that we really need. Once summer comes then I'll be hoping we spend big on great players just like everybody else will be but I'm also realistic about where we are right now.

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Always next summer.

Primativ said:

Well in that case don’t moan about not winning trophies, you can’t have it both ways. I’m all for bringing youth players through but not at the expensive of losing our level of quality in CM. If you seriously are saying you’d rather have Skipp than Kovacic that’s crazy. First of all, The Croatian hasn’t been that bad. To say he isn’t interested or over rated is incorrect. With the benefit of hindsight your POV may not sounds so wild right now, but if you’d said that last summer you’d have been driven to the insane asylum! I get that loan players aren’t ideal, we should be aiming for perm transfers, but the fact is we need quality and experience in there.

If people want to flood our first team squad with academy kids go ahead, but don’t expect us to win major trophies.

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Based on this boards outlook, no one does any way, what's your point?

For me, Herc's ITK connects a LOT of dots going back even into this summer.

Based on Herc's ITK today along with other bits of info over the past week or so from others, I would think the targets that they are looking at or have looked at this past summer are DeLigt, DeJong, perhaps Rabiot, perhaps N'Dombele. I remember reading from several that DeJong was a definite target and that he was simpy unattainable due to the player and Ajax. Seems now based on this ITK, he along with probably Rabiot are simply waiting for Barca and don't care about missing out for a window or two.

This to me explains the lack of transfers then this summer. They wanted these special names because those type of talents are really the only ones that can improve the roster as it is structured (meaning it takes a special talent to get into this very strong squad). However, not having a plan B is extremely disappointing. I applaud Poch and Spurs for trying to get involved in names like DeLigt and DeJong. When "efforts" were made to get them, we will never know what exactly those efforts were - did Levy lowball the teams and players? Did they drag negotiations out? If you put some faith in the club, then based on this ITK, most likely these players simply wouldn't come. But again, is some of that Levy not paying what they wanted??? Who knows and I'm sure there are conflicting sides of that story,

What is disappointing to me is that there have to be players out there that still have loads of potential and are young that are attainable. Berge is a prime example of a kid that would likely want to come to Spurs, is well regarded, and is most likely attainable. Is there a risk to him? Certainly - no transfer comes without risk. But instead of dropping down to names like N'Koudou (who I can not remember ever being well regarded when brought in and just seemed like a cheap throw of a dart by Levy), get options that are still good. Are the scouts not working? Everyone in the world can see DeLigt and DeJong are going to be great. You don't need scouts to do that. Why can they find the others?

Sancho is another name that makes no sense as to why they didn't get him. Play hardball with Man City if you have to. By all accounts, he wanted to come here, correct? Now he will be sold for probably 50-70 mill or more and is doing great for Dortmund.

Whether we as fans like it or not, if a player has any inkling of interest from a Barcelona or Madrid, they are almost always going to wait it out and try to go there instead of Spurs. They doesn't mean Spurs aren't a great club, but they are in no way on same level as Barca and Madrid. That just is what it is. So they either need to get these specials kids before the big clubs become interested (like they did with Alli) or quickly have options that are almost as good and make it happen when available. I'm not saying Grealish is anywhere near the prospect of DeLigt or DeJong, but it's pretty clear Poch wanted him and didn't get him because Levy messed around.

So in summary, Spurs have reached a point with Poch that they have very high standards for incoming transfers and rightly so as they are a consistent CL club now with great facilities and stadium. However, maybe their standards are a little too high and unrealistic in some cases, which while commendable, also leaves them shorthanded and going through windows were absolutely no one is brought in. The prospects they are interested in likely have all the leverage in any negotiations because they are so good and with Levy negotiating, that's not a good thing for Spurs. He rarely if ever will simply meet demands of a team or player in a transfer deal.

Those are my rambling, incoherent thoughts anyway. What worried me a bit is that Man United, although currently a mess compared to Spurs, has that history where I hope Poch doesn't look and say, "well, if I can't get these names at Tottenham, perhaps I can at Man U." I instead obviously hope Poch can get Spurs to that same level of prestige and stays for a long time.

Hercules said:

Sorry for dampeners. Aside from my first post yesterday regarding possible loan backs. I am told very firmly that our preferred targets have much different preferences, and are prepared to hold out for them. Both January, and in the summer.

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You have to wonder why the fuck they are our preferred targets then. Good to aim high but if they don't want to come what's the point of wasting our time when we could be finding players who do?

This thread is going to need a loop counter at this rate.

Hercules said:

Sorry for dampeners. Aside from my first post yesterday regarding possible loan backs. I am told very firmly that our preferred targets have much different preferences, and are prepared to hold out for them. Both January, and in the summer.

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Seems like we're caught between a rock and a hard place. Our first team and squad are strong, meaning we're going after higher quality targets. Unfortunately, this puts us in direct competition with the likes of Barca et al, meaning we have a situation like the summer, where we refuse to skimp on quality (understandable) to avoid having an Nkoudou 2.0 situation.

The problem is that I can't see a way out of this. We can't compete with the stature nor the finances of these teams, so the only option is seemingly to accept that we can't attain the likes of De Jong or Ndombele so we don't waste our time, and go for youngsters instead; need to find some youngsters in the lower leagues and hope we strike lucky.

I preferred it when players would not join us because we were not in the champions league. ?