Jose Mourinho

Ronwol196061 said:

They also could have lost their investment.
How many offers were on the table when they bought it?
We as fans could have been lumbered with much worse
Just sayin'

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I’m not slagging them off by the way. Without their expertise, time and connections, we wouldn’t be where we are as a club. They’re investors, pretty damn good ones at that! Good, smart investors will improve a football club

Archibald&Crooks said:

Yet when he does play we're (generally) getting the same sort of results and performances. I think those players who look 'bad' aren't going to look any better for his presence in the team.

And seeing as we're repeating ourselves I'll say this again. We can put whoever we like wherever we like, we can bring in this player for that player and it won't (and it hasn't) made a blind bit of difference. The solution isn't playing someone else or a different formation. There is no magic solution. We need different players. For a variety of reasons, some of those who were easily good enough no longer are. Previously, we could put in a Foyth or a Winks or whoever and the quality of the rest would carry them through, but now that is no longer the case, they are all much more under the microscope and have been coming up short.

And anyone who's STILL getting annoyed, angry or waiting for their knees to land needs to have a word with themselves before they give themselves a nervous breakdown. It isn't going to improve until we make some signings.

Get used to it for now and relax a little, your mental health demands it

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I honestly think we need about 5 new starters, let alone squad players. The squad has been neglected and we need a huge rebuild.

Mourinho has only been here five minutes, he needs time and money. He's proven that he is tactically astute and wins things everywhere. He doesn't have the right tools at the moment. Neither did Poch for the last year or so.

Right back, centre half and a quality midfielder and we could look a much different side.

I’d love a midfielder in the mound of Ndidi and a centre half with size, pace and power. Right back? I’d take half this board over our current options so I’ll be easily pleased here!

I’m starting to think that living in a Manchester travel tavern may have done him in a bit...

The thing is we built a stadium in the meantime. I don't buy that we didn't sign players because we didn't want to. That's the PR machine imo.
Poch took us through that time and we even got to the CL final. He knew this squad needed a revamp, and he even said so publicly. That need for a squad renewal was going to affect our performances, and it did, and it finally ended up costing Poch's job.

So basically this squad got worn out as an effect of the lack of investment due to having no money to spend as it was used for the stadium. We had a manager keeping the team together until we had money to spend again. When we finished the stadium, and Poch wanted to revamp the squad, player problems started to surface, and the effects of the lack of squad investment started to show.

Surely Poch had blame in it, but I think it's getting clear that the problem has more to do with the players than him.

I don't expect Mourinho to solve anything at all until next season. There's too much to do

Cant see what Mourinho did wrong against Southampton. He picked the best team avaliable. They players didnt show up. Didnt look like anyone of them gave a shit.

Its obvious for everyone the squad need an overhaul. He should clear out more than a few.

I would give Jose a B- at this stage. I think you have to consider factors in and out of his control:

Out of his Control
1. Injuries and Suspensions - Hard to figure out your best starting XI when managing a injuries and suspensions galore. He hasn't had time to look at Davies, Lamela, NDombele and to some extent Dier, due to injuries. And then there's Son. A suspension we could have done without during a very busy festive period. A suspension that might have been the difference between winning and losing a couple of those games.
2. Sheer Idiocy - No manager in the world can plan for colossal stupidity and mistakes. Of which we have seen much of for the last year. This is a team that shits its pants at least two or three times a game.
3. Loss of Form - So many players in this team are playing well behind their peak form. Dele, Moura, Eriksen, Winks, Dier, Toby, Jan, Rose, Wanyama and to some extent Kane too. All of them have been pretty crap for a long time now and show no signs of improving. Take our last game... Between Moura/Eriksen/Dele they lost the ball 67 times during the game. 67 FUCKING TIMES! That's next level atrocious.
4. No Leaders - Let's face it... we have a team of passive asshats. Not one of them is a true leader. Someone who will pull the team out of the muck. Someone who will galvanize those around them. We don't have one of those leaders in the team. Let alone a couple. And we desperately need players with that mentality out on the field orchestrating the team and bellowing fire & brimstone when the players are faffing around worrying about their next Instagram moment or what they're gonna wear to the club after the game.
5. Budget for Transfers - this one has yet to be determined. But if it turns out we don't have two pennies to rub together, or Levy is playing silly buggers again, this too is something he can't control. Sadly for us and Jose, we need a min of five new players in the starting XI (RB, LB, CB, CDM and an AM to replace the Danish douche).

In his Control
1. The Lineups - I can understand why he has tried to implement his preferred lineup, but it is not working. Square pegs and round holes. Means we are seeing some of the worst defensive performances from our team for nearly 10 years. Granted, these numbers are a bit skewed given that many of the goals conceded come from mistakes and lack of focus by our defenders and midfield. But that said, it's clear for anyone to see, that in most games we get completely run-over in midfield. This is aided by players such as Dele, Moura, Eriksen and others, because of their unique ability to constantly lose the ball, lack of focus, lack of aggression and inability to support their defenders. He needs to be more pragmatic in his approach. Play a formation and team that leans into whatever little strengths we have.
2. Too Kind to the Vets - Which sounds odd, as Jose is not prone to fits of sentimentality. But I think he's been far too lenient with some of the more established players. Giving some of them more time than they deserve. He will need to be more ruthless.

The latter observations is why I have him at a B-. I would be more bullish about him, if I was truly seeing an evolution to his approach. Or a degree of flexibility when having to deal with the hand he's dealt. Alas, he seems to be floundering right now and looks like a man fresh outta ideas - and we're only two months into his reign. I do still believe he can help the team. But will need time and a profound investment in players from a chairman who isn't that keen on spending gobs of money.

Can't help but feel that we haven't truly hit rock-bottom yet. But hopefully when that time comes, there is a viable plan to lift us back into the upper echelons of the table with Jose in charge.

Personally think Mourinho is past it. I hope i will be proven wrong

sausage said:

The economy has increased, so it's actually more likely. Players cost proportionally the same (vs prize money) as they did then, but they are proportionally far higher than the 'normal' income of a club (ticket sales/merch).

If the arse fell out of the PL prize money at a moment's notice, we'd be one of the few clubs that'd survive. That also applies to relegation, as per the reason why so many teams drop down like a stone.

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Well when you put it that way, dropping back to mid table and waiting for the collapse of PL money sounds like an exciting and smart sporting strategy! Playing the ‘long game’, hoovering up all that lovely ticket money and waiting for the sky to fall - to dare is to do.

I can’t wait for that unspecified moment in the future when Utd, Liverpool, Leicester, Everton and Chelsea have all gone bust, down in League 2 while we clean up all the trophies. Maybe by that time City’s owners will also have ‘got tired’ of football and Levy will be the only giant left standing. They’ll be most annoyed they weren’t careful what they wished for.

I wonder what odds we can get on that happening as you make the possibility sound quite compelling!

TropicalYid said:

Cant see what Mourinho did wrong against Southampton. He picked the best team avaliable. They players didnt show up. Didnt look like anyone of them gave a shit.

Its obvious for everyone the squad need an overhaul. He should clear out more than a few.

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Agree, the team he picked was in my view the best team possible, it’s not his fault that Toby & Jan suddenly this season can’t defend anymore or that Ndombele can’t play two matches in a row, BUT I’d argue it IS his fault that we set up in a way that meant our players had few out balls, players were too far apart and they either were told or had no option but to hit and long ball, it was painful to watch and it was ineffective an it was the same against Brighton & Chelsea so that does concern me.

look at the heap of shit apart from the front 3 that arteta has taken over and they look like they’re playing like bloody Man City within 3 fucking games, Brendon Rogers did the same at Leicester.

So for me it’s the style of play we have that worries me long term as I just don’t think hitting long passes so frequently and surrendering posession so often is an effective tactic in this day and age of football. That having said we have a huge number of players who are not up to it, for me the ones I’m comfortable with are the following but aside from that we could upgrade all the rest:

Lloris
•Toby
•Sanchez
•Davies (debatable if we want a more modern attacking FB)
•Ndombele (if he can stay fucking fit)
•Son
•Dele (I don’t like the guy and think Grealish, Maddison etc would be better but he’s not far off the level we need to be fair to him even if he is a bit of a twat)
•Kane. •Sessengon & lo celso) (for the future), possibly sissoko as a squad player and possibly Lucas as a squad player.

The rest need moving on or upgrading.

kannanmothalali said:

Personally think Mourinho is past it. I hope i will be proven wrong

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I didn’t want to think this and was very positive when we appointed him and thought a recharged manager who’s almost unrivalled in terms of their success could be a masterstroke and sure he’s inherited a shit show of a squad with clearly some behind the scenes player and contract issues AND he’s improved results and our position in the table but the new manager bounce / honeymoon is over and the results and more
Importantly performances are seriously worrying, our players need to be improved but come on your can’t seriously tell me Southamptons team is better than ours and should be essentially outplaying us and restricting us to fuck all chances, see also Brighton and wolves giving us a run for our money and man.u & Chelsea completlely destroying us, the hoof ball anti possession is turgid and painful to watch and if we then don’t get the results to go with that then the fans will turn on jose very very quickly trust me.

jurgen said:

Well when you put it that way, dropping back to mid table and waiting for the collapse of PL money sounds like an exciting and smart sporting strategy! Playing the ‘long game’, hoovering up all that lovely ticket money and waiting for the sky to fall - to dare is to do.

I can’t wait for that unspecified moment in the future when Utd, Liverpool, Leicester, Everton and Chelsea have all gone bust, down in League 2 while we clean up all the trophies. Maybe by that time City’s owners will also have ‘got tired’ of football and Levy will be the only giant left standing. They’ll be most annoyed they weren’t careful what they wished for.

I wonder what odds we can get on that happening as you make the possibility sound quite compelling!

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I mean we could be £600m in debt and be equally as shit as United?

kannanmothalali said:

Personally think Mourinho is past it. I hope i will be proven wrong

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It partly went tits up for him at Man U because he couldn’t deal with the players not following instruction (eg. Pogba, Shaw) and making errors. It was always going to happen here with some of our players (eg. Foyth, Aurier) and their deficiencies.

The proof as to whether he’s changed or not will be in how he reacts to it and handles the players now. If it goes like it did at Man Utd then he won’t be here in a year’s time. It has been my only concern with appointing him. If he’s backed by the chairman, unlike how he was at Man U, and the players are moved out and new ones brought in them we will be ok. No new players, no rejuvenation then we are in trouble. It’s completely down to levy how this goes.

spursfan77 said:

It partly went tits up for him at Man U because he couldn’t deal with the players not following instruction (eg. Pogba, Shaw) and making errors. It was always going to happen here with some of our players (eg. Foyth, Aurier) and their deficiencies.

The proof as to whether he’s changed or not will be in how he reacts to it and handles the players now. If it goes like it did at Man Utd then he won’t be here in a year’s time. It has been my only concern with appointing him. If he’s backed by the chairman, unlike how he was at Man U, and the players are moved out and new ones brought in them we will be ok. No new players, no rejuvenation then we are in trouble. It’s completely down to levy how this goes.

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Ossie85 said:

The thing is we built a stadium in the meantime. I don't buy that we didn't sign players because we didn't want to. That's the PR machine imo.
Poch took us through that time and we even got to the CL final. He knew this squad needed a revamp, and he even said so publicly. That need for a squad renewal was going to affect our performances, and it did, and it finally ended up costing Poch's job.

So basically this squad got worn out as an effect of the lack of investment due to having no money to spend as it was used for the stadium. We had a manager keeping the team together until we had money to spend again. When we finished the stadium, and Poch wanted to revamp the squad, player problems started to surface, and the effects of the lack of squad investment started to show.

Surely Poch had blame in it, but I think it's getting clear that the problem has more to do with the players than him.

I don't expect Mourinho to solve anything at all until next season. There's too much to do

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Totally agree which is why I was staggered when people wanted Poch out. It was and is clearly the players and clearly the make up of our squad. Did Poch allow that to happen? Put it this way I cant imagine he didnt want to refresh and revitalise the squad but it was done too late and insufficiently...

The fact that we now need to give Mourinho the time and money makes me think why the fuck did we get rid of Poch in the first place - i raised this question before he left and raise it now. I guess the only two reason is either one of hope/desperation to see if the fortunes change from the current squad OR no faith in Poch with the cash to do so.

ps the same way I hadnt blamed Poch im also not blaming Jose here, although the football is turgid and still dont see anything that resembles an identity.

pps I would not be surprised if we do a Monaco

danielneeds said:

But if he sensed the players were bored of him and had lost their edge, hence why he wanted the total rebuild, no? The fact that he wasn’t being allowed to do that because Levy set unrealistic prices for selling players and messed about too much getting players in contributed to Poch’s body language and waning commitment.

It’s somewhat moot now, but the cycle will probably continue once Jose realises just how bad the problems are here and Levy messes him about not reshaping the squad.

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I suppose its a bit of a chicken and egg thing really.
The main problem is that we have no idea of what is happening, or has happened, behind the scenes. We can only take things by face value.

Wheeler Dealer said:

If we continue to play this shambolic, turgid football, then he'll be lucky to see this season out, as I suspect the large majority of fans will quickly lose patience and the pressure will intensify if results and performance don't improve.

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Then we're going to end up in a shit cycle of constantly changing managers.
I don't think there's any quick fix for our current situation and if a manager like Jose isn't going to be given time to sort things out, we're in big trouble.

Poch will be back at the end of the season, with us in lower mid table. He’ll be fresh and ready for another project.

I reckon Jose genuinely underestimated how shit these players have become. He wanted to buy many of them over this last 24 months, but they have dropped off so badly. He thinks he can coach them and improve them, it’s looking like he’s bitten off more than he can chew. He has been known to think he’s better than he is.

He sold this idea to Levy, saying he wouldn’t need to buy this season. He presumed the squad and himself were good enough for top 4, then re-invest with CL money.....ouch!

Jose has been banking on this next 2-3 weeks, with a relatively quiet spell, to get a mini pre-season and start to affect change. Hope it works, cos we are a shit shower atm.

just my opinion fwiw

stevespurs said:

Poch will be back at the end of the season, with us in lower mid table. He’ll be fresh and ready for another project.

I reckon Jose genuinely underestimated how shit these players have become. He wanted to buy many of them over this last 24 months, but they have dropped off so badly. He thinks he can coach them and improve them, it’s looking like he’s bitten off more than he can chew. He has been known to think he’s better than he is.

He sold this idea to Levy, saying he wouldn’t need to buy this season. He presumed the squad and himself were good enough for top 4, then re-invest with CL money.....ouch!

Jose has been banking on this next 2-3 weeks, with a relatively quiet spell, to get a mini pre-season and start to affect change. Hope it works, cos we are a shit shower atm.

just my opinion fwiw

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Monaco mk2, need to start again