A measure of how far we have come

[mattyspurs]

It comes to something when we are disappointed with a 5th place finish in the Premier League, but it is also a measure of how far our fantastic football club has come in the last 10 years.

I am lucky enough to remember the last time we were deemed a force, back in the ‘80s, we won the FA cup back to back with the team including the Argentineans, Hoddle, Archibald and Crooks. A wonderful team managed by Keith Burkinshaw, which went on to win the UEFA cup in ’84. I was only a small child in these days, but I remember them so well.

Then we had the nearly team of ’87, that nearly won the FA cup, that nearly won the league. Clive Allen, scoring 49 goals in a season, managed by David Pleat, the last great team that I can remember.

After that, nothing. The sun went in and a dark cloud covered White Hart Lane, yes we had the FA cup win in ’91 which was fantastic, but as soon as Linekar and Gazza went, the sun went with them. We had players like Ruel Fox, Jason Dozzell, Jason Cundy and Stuart Nethercott etc. Yes we had a couple of shining lights that tried to break through the clouds like Teddy and Jurgen, but it wasn’t enough.

Then in 2001, something happened. We got bought out by a company called ENIC, with a front man who looked a strange character, short and bald and talked a bit funny. None of us knew what was to happen over the next few years. But he tried to win over the fans straight away by getting rid of dodgy gypsy, and bringing in the messiah, Glenn Hoddle. It didn’t work out, so he let him go.

Then after another short spell by David Pleat, we went continental, and brought in Jacques Santini, the best coach in France at that time. But he decided to leave after just 13 games!! Levy then appointed Martin Jol our Assistant, and from then on we know what happened. Firstly he played Carrick!!! That helped, and he brought some stability to the club for the first time in a while. Finishing 9th I think in the league.

The following season, we were so close to 4th place and the holy grail of CL football for the first time. Until lasagna gate!! The following season again, we achieved 5th place, finally we had consistency!!!

Unfortunately after a bad start to the next season, Martin Jol was sacked, which in my opinion was Levy’s worse decision since he has been here, and brought in the next big thing in Juande Ramos. We won the Carling Cup in his first season here which was wonderful, our first trophy since ’99. We all thought we were moving places again. But after that win, we went backwards, hardly winning a game, and that continued into the next season, winning just “2 points from 8 games”, which resulted in Ramos being sacked.

Which brings me onto Harry Redknapp, He came in, I wasn’t sure about this, I know he has done well at the clubs he has managed, but I still wasn’t sure. I didn’t like his image; I didn’t like the “dodgy persona” that always hung around him. But as with all managers I gave him my backing and I am so glad that I did. He pulled us out of what was undoubtedly a relegation scrap, finishing just outside of European qualification. Then the season after that he achieved what we all wanted, CL football, the Holy Grail. The man could do no wrong in my eyes.

Now, the season just gone, CL football, nearly gone at the first hurdle, but we clawed it back and then went on to win our group, beating the Current champions Inter Milan at WHL. Then we went to the San Siro again and beat AC Milan, incredible stuff, then we had Real Madrid, I’ll say it again, Real Madrid at the Lane, I never thought I would see that in my lifetime, the QF of the Champions League amazing times.

So the PL, we have been fighting for 4th place again all season, yes, we have tailed off in the last couple of months, drawing too many games, but for my money that has been down to the ineptitude of our strikers. But we had a late spurt and secured 5th place, once again qualifying for the Europa League, something 5 years ago we were delighted to do.

This is not an attempt to bring the Harry Haters or the Harry lovers together, because that is never going to happen, but all I wanted to do from this long winded thread was to bring some perspective back, about where we were, and were we have now got to. The reason we are so disappointed about finishing 5th is because of the progression we have made which surely cannot be a bad thing, can it?

 

[Spurs_Bear]

It's a lovely read. :clap:

 

[TaoistMonkey]

Whoa, I was going to start a thread similar to this.

Love it and very true. I don't think our "new" fans really appreciate what this club has been through.

:clap:

 

[Azazello]

Good post.

I remember the 80s well and this is the first time since then that I've felt that we're getting back to where we were back then.

 

[Eric_s]

Unfortunately after a bad start to the next season, Martin Jol was sacked, which in my opinion was Levy’s worse decision since he has been here, and brought in the next big thing in Juande Ramos. We won the Carling Cup in his first season here which was wonderful, our first trophy since ’99. We all thought we were moving places again. But after that win, we went backwards, hardly winning a game, and that continued into the next season, winning just “2 points from 8 games”, which resulted in Ramos being sacked.

quote]

The sacking of Jol was the right decision. He has taken us as far as he could. Yes he brought us to our highest league position in the PL. However, he records since leaving us has proven beyond any reasonable doubt that he is nothing more than an average coach.
Hamburg and Ajax, big teams in mediocre leagues and he could not hack it. His time at Hamburg was the worst seasons for the big three of Germany, yet Jol allowed teams like Hertha Berlin and Wolfsburg to grab the glories. Since he left Ajax, they went from a distant third to champion.
Jol is a likable person but Harry is the better manager.
I still remember all our players growing fat under jol and our team plays with poor organisation and team shape.
I think sacking Commoli is a big mistake.

 

[sloth]

First off, a good article mate and a nice trip through memory lane...

Which brings me onto Harry Redknapp, He came in, I wasn’t sure about this, I know he has done well at the clubs he has managed,

He's neither done well, nor particularly poorly at the clubs he's managed, he's occasionally done well, occasionally badly and for the majority of the time decidedly average. The ten years or so he spent at Bournemouth, in which time he managed to get them promoted and then relegated and nothing in-between, pretty much encapsulates his coaching career for me.

Anyway, ask his former fans what they think of his management (particularly his 'short-termism') if you want a realistic appraisal of his ability.

but I still wasn’t sure. I didn’t like his image; I didn’t like the “dodgy persona” that always hung around him. But as with all managers I gave him my backing and I am so glad that I did. He pulled us out of what was undoubtedly a relegation scrap, finishing just outside of European qualification. Then the season after that he achieved what we all wanted, CL football, the Holy Grail. The man could do no wrong in my eyes.

The passion of the born-again eh? :razz: Joking aside it is often true that those who at first doubted, once won over, become the most passionate believers.

Now, the season just gone, CL football, nearly gone at the first hurdle, but we clawed it back and then went on to win our group, beating the Current champions Inter Milan at WHL. Then we went to the San Siro again and beat AC Milan, incredible stuff, then we had Real Madrid, I’ll say it again, Real Madrid at the Lane, I never thought I would see that in my lifetime, the QF of the Champions League amazing times.

Good times yes. Amazing? That's over the top, we've been getting better in comparison to our peers year on year. It's not like we've suddenly come from nowhere. Given the quality of our squad 3rd to 6th is about our level in the Premier League. With our first team we've given torrid times to teams as good as Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea in recent years. As those teams are amongst the best in Europe, it's not quite the shock everyone makes out that we can also beat other teams who are amongst the best in Europe. I don't want to underplay the achievement, beating Milan in San Siro is a great thing, but given how good the PL is and our place within it, it's not
the totally incredible one some make out.

So the PL, we have been fighting for 4th place again all season, yes, we have tailed off in the last couple of months, drawing too many games, but for my money that has been down to the ineptitude of our strikers. But we had a late spurt and secured 5th place, once again qualifying for the Europa League, something 5 years ago we were delighted to do.

This is true. We've enjoyed a great run in the CL, a good performance until March in the PL and a disappointing end. Add it together and divide by the parts and you end with an average of a fair to middling season with some undoubted high points, but also some lows.

This is not an attempt to bring the Harry Haters or the Harry lovers together, because that is never going to happen, but all I wanted to do from this long winded thread was to bring some perspective back, about where we were, and were we have now got to. The reason we are so disappointed about finishing 5th is because of the progression we have made which surely cannot be a bad thing, can it?

True. What exacerbates that disappointment is the fact that we're then told we're idiots for feeling it and in fact this is as good as we can expect to ever achieve.

We're not idiots for being disappointed, we do have to take it on the chin that this year we fell short but two out of four clubs of roughly equal quality (Arsenal, Liverpool, City and Spurs) were always going to be disappointed, so we should deal with that, get up and go again next year.

But not with the attitude that fourth is enough, but with the ambition to win the league and every other competition we enter. If we fall-short, we should still be happy with progress, if we fall-back we'll be disappointed and won't be placated if the manager tries to dress it up as the best season ever.

 

[TaoistMonkey]

The sacking of Jol was the right decision. He has taken us as far as he could. Yes he brought us to our highest league position in the PL. However, he records since leaving us has proven beyond any reasonable doubt that he is nothing more than an average coach.
Hamburg and Ajax, big teams in mediocre leagues and he could not hack it. His time at Hamburg was the worst seasons for the big three of Germany, yet Jol allowed teams like Hertha Berlin and Wolfsburg to grab the glories. Since he left Ajax, they went from a distant third to champion.
Jol is a likable person but Harry is the better manager.
I still remember all our players growing fat under jol and our team plays with poor organisation and team shape.
I think sacking Commoli is a big mistake.

Hows that crystal ball working out for you?

 

[Mr Pink]

Hows that crystal ball working out for you?

lol...think he means at the time!

 

[TaoistMonkey]

lol...think he means at the time!

Obviously. He got sacked :razz:

 

[mattyspurs]

It's a lovely read. :clap:

Cheers SB, as you can tell though, i'm not the greatest wordsmith

Whoa, I was going to start a thread similar to this.

Love it and very true. I don't think our "new" fans really appreciate what this club has been through.

:clap:

TM, that is why I wanted to do this, it just seems to me that alot of our fans have forgotten where we were a few short years ago.

Unfortunately after a bad start to the next season, Martin Jol was sacked, which in my opinion was Levy’s worse decision since he has been here, and brought in the next big thing in Juande Ramos. We won the Carling Cup in his first season here which was wonderful, our first trophy since ’99. We all thought we were moving places again. But after that win, we went backwards, hardly winning a game, and that continued into the next season, winning just “2 points from 8 games”, which resulted in Ramos being sacked.

quote]

The sacking of Jol was the right decision. He has taken us as far as he could. Yes he brought us to our highest league position in the PL. However, he records since leaving us has proven beyond any reasonable doubt that he is nothing more than an average coach.
Hamburg and Ajax, big teams in mediocre leagues and he could not hack it. His time at Hamburg was the worst seasons for the big three of Germany, yet Jol allowed teams like Hertha Berlin and Wolfsburg to grab the glories. Since he left Ajax, they went from a distant third to champion.
Jol is a likable person but Harry is the better manager.
I still remember all our players growing fat under jol and our team plays with poor organisation and team shape.
I think sacking Commoli is a big mistake.

I did state in my OP, that it was my opinion, and it still it.

 

[mattyspurs]

First off, a good article mate and a nice trip through memory lane...



He's neither done well, nor particularly poorly at the clubs he's managed, he's occasionally done well, occasionally badly and for the majority of the time decidedly average. The ten years or so he spent at Bournemouth, in which time he managed to get them promoted and then relegated and nothing in-between, pretty much encapsulates his coaching career for me.

Anyway, ask his former fans what they think of his management (particularly his 'short-termism') if you want a realistic appraisal of his ability.



The passion of the born-again eh? :razz: Joking aside it is often true that those who at first doubted, once won over, become the most passionate believers.



Good times yes. Amazing? That's over the top, we've been getting better in comparison to our peers year on year. It's not like we've suddenly come from nowhere. Given the quality of our squad 3rd to 6th is about our level in the Premier League. With our first team we've given torrid times to teams as good as Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea in recent years. As those teams are amongst the best in Europe, it's not quite the shock everyone makes out that we can also beat other teams who are amongst the best in Europe. I don't want to underplay the achievement, beating Milan in San Siro is a great thing, but given how good the PL is and our place within it, it's not
the totally incredible one some make out.



This is true. We've enjoyed a great run in the CL, a good performance until March in the PL and a disappointing end. Add it together and divide by the parts and you end with an average of a fair to middling season with some undoubted high points, but also some lows.



True. What exacerbates that disappointment is the fact that we're then told we're idiots for feeling it and in fact this is as good as we can expect to ever achieve.

We're not idiots for being disappointed, we do have to take it on the chin that this year we fell short but two out of four clubs of roughly equal quality (Arsenal, Liverpool, City and Spurs) were always going to be disappointed, so we should deal with that, get up and go again next year.

But not with the attitude that fourth is enough, but with the ambition to win the league and every other competition we enter. If we fall-short, we should still be happy with progress, if we fall-back we'll be disappointed and won't be placated if the manager tries to dress it up as the best season ever.

Cheers for the feedback Sloth and it is much appreciated, whilst I do not always agree with everything you post, I always the apperciate the way that you post, you give reasons for your views and good reasons aswell, not everyone does this.

I think the interview that Harry gave, was wrong, not thought out, but he did seem to be caught on the hop. I think it was that transfer gimp, Andy Burton interviewing him, and he did goad him. He only called a small section of the fans idiots, and some of us are, just look at some of the ill thought out posts from some members on here and you will see this. Also you have to bear in mind that he would have known about the Crouch incident with the "fan", that was probably playing on his mind.

I am not defending him, he shouldn't have said what he said, but I do agree with him in certain parts.

 

[tommyt]

Excellent post dude. I'll stick my neck out and say that post echoes the sentiment of the vast majority of Spurs supporters and SC posters.

 

[ethanedwards]

Great well balanced post Matty, I shall endeavour to take a daily dose of perspective in future before posting, although after a little libation things become a little foggy.

 

[Hot-Spur]

Nice post Matt, although I was gutted to miss out on 4th again this season and do think we could and should have done alot better, it helps to remember the dark days of Dozzell, Cundy, Wilson etc Because when I do I then realise just like you said how far we have come. I just want to keep progressing and moving forward because I think we are really close to being something very special.

 

[StartingPrice]

Anything is better than the season being over before Christmas...surely:shrug:

 

[Jaispurs]

Great post mate. Some people just fail to amaze me with their notions of grandure without any foundation

 

[OmarsComing]

did santini leave after 13 days or 13 games?

 

[mattyspurs]

did santini leave after 13 days or 13 games?

I think it was 13 games, did I put days?

I'll check

I Put games

 

[Bus-Conductor]

First off, a good article mate and a nice trip through memory lane...



He's neither done well, nor particularly poorly at the clubs he's managed, he's occasionally done well, occasionally badly and for the majority of the time decidedly average. The ten years or so he spent at Bournemouth, in which time he managed to get them promoted and then relegated and nothing in-between, pretty much encapsulates his coaching career for me.

Anyway, ask his former fans what they think of his management (particularly his 'short-termism') if you want a realistic appraisal of his ability.



The passion of the born-again eh? :razz: Joking aside it is often true that those who at first doubted, once won over, become the most passionate believers.



Good times yes. Amazing? That's over the top, we've been getting better in comparison to our peers year on year. It's not like we've suddenly come from nowhere. Given the quality of our squad 3rd to 6th is about our level in the Premier League. With our first team we've given torrid times to teams as good as Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea in recent years. As those teams are amongst the best in Europe, it's not quite the shock everyone makes out that we can also beat other teams who are amongst the best in Europe. I don't want to underplay the achievement, beating Milan in San Siro is a great thing, but given how good the PL is and our place within it, it's not
the totally incredible one some make out.



This is true. We've enjoyed a great run in the CL, a good performance until March in the PL and a disappointing end. Add it together and divide by the parts and you end with an average of a fair to middling season with some undoubted high points, but also some lows.



True. What exacerbates that disappointment is the fact that we're then told we're idiots for feeling it and in fact this is as good as we can expect to ever achieve.

We're not idiots for being disappointed, we do have to take it on the chin that this year we fell short but two out of four clubs of roughly equal quality (Arsenal, Liverpool, City and Spurs) were always going to be disappointed, so we should deal with that, get up and go again next year.

But not with the attitude that fourth is enough, but with the ambition to win the league and every other competition we enter. If we fall-short, we should still be happy with progress, if we fall-back we'll be disappointed and won't be placated if the manager tries to dress it up as the best season ever.

I agree with all of this.

I also agree that my disappointment is a measure of how far we have come. If I didn't feel we could and should have achieved more then it would be because I felt we weren't good enough to.

I don't agree it is all about our strikers though. It is about a combination of things.

 

[EastLondonYid]

It comes to something when we are disappointed with a 5th place finish in the Premier League, but it is also a measure of how far our fantastic football club has come in the last 10 years.

I am lucky enough to remember the last time we were deemed a force, back in the ‘80s, we won the FA cup back to back with the team including the Argentineans, Hoddle, Archibald and Crooks. A wonderful team managed by Keith Burkinshaw, which went on to win the UEFA cup in ’84. I was only a small child in these days, but I remember them so well.

Then we had the nearly team of ’87, that nearly won the FA cup, that nearly won the league. Clive Allen, scoring 49 goals in a season, managed by David Pleat, the last great team that I can remember.

After that, nothing. The sun went in and a dark cloud covered White Hart Lane, yes we had the FA cup win in ’91 which was fantastic, but as soon as Linekar and Gazza went, the sun went with them. We had players like Ruel Fox, Jason Dozzell, Jason Cundy and Stuart Nethercott etc. Yes we had a couple of shining lights that tried to break through the clouds like Teddy and Jurgen, but it wasn’t enough.

Then in 2001, something happened. We got bought out by a company called ENIC, with a front man who looked a strange character, short and bald and talked a bit funny. None of us knew what was to happen over the next few years. But he tried to win over the fans straight away by getting rid of dodgy gypsy, and bringing in the messiah, Glenn Hoddle. It didn’t work out, so he let him go.

Then after another short spell by David Pleat, we went continental, and brought in Jacques Santini, the best coach in France at that time. But he decided to leave after just 13 games!! Levy then appointed Martin Jol our Assistant, and from then on we know what happened. Firstly he played Carrick!!! That helped, and he brought some stability to the club for the first time in a while. Finishing 9th I think in the league.

The following season, we were so close to 4th place and the holy grail of CL football for the first time. Until lasagna gate!! The following season again, we achieved 5th place, finally we had consistency!!!

Unfortunately after a bad start to the next season, Martin Jol was sacked, which in my opinion was Levy’s worse decision since he has been here, and brought in the next big thing in Juande Ramos. We won the Carling Cup in his first season here which was wonderful, our first trophy since ’99. We all thought we were moving places again. But after that win, we went backwards, hardly winning a game, and that continued into the next season, winning just “2 points from 8 games”, which resulted in Ramos being sacked.

Which brings me onto Harry Redknapp, He came in, I wasn’t sure about this, I know he has done well at the clubs he has managed, but I still wasn’t sure. I didn’t like his image; I didn’t like the “dodgy persona” that always hung around him. But as with all managers I gave him my backing and I am so glad that I did. He pulled us out of what was undoubtedly a relegation scrap, finishing just outside of European qualification. Then the season after that he achieved what we all wanted, CL football, the Holy Grail. The man could do no wrong in my eyes.

Now, the season just gone, CL football, nearly gone at the first hurdle, but we clawed it back and then went on to win our group, beating the Current champions Inter Milan at WHL. Then we went to the San Siro again and beat AC Milan, incredible stuff, then we had Real Madrid, I’ll say it again, Real Madrid at the Lane, I never thought I would see that in my lifetime, the QF of the Champions League amazing times.

So the PL, we have been fighting for 4th place again all season, yes, we have tailed off in the last couple of months, drawing too many games, but for my money that has been down to the ineptitude of our strikers. But we had a late spurt and secured 5th place, once again qualifying for the Europa League, something 5 years ago we were delighted to do.

This is not an attempt to bring the Harry Haters or the Harry lovers together, because that is never going to happen, but all I wanted to do from this long winded thread was to bring some perspective back, about where we were, and were we have now got to. The reason we are so disappointed about finishing 5th is because of the progression we have made which surely cannot be a bad thing, can it?

Unfortunately football and the fans have changed mate, and whilst i agree with your post you wonder what the fuck is going on when the likes of Angelotti gets sacked in the corridor a season after winning the double for the first time in their history,when QPR get to the holy grail after years in the lower leagues and are rumoured to want rid of Warnock, just to name a few examples of how crazy the game has become.
Harry is not the messiah, but i fully appreciate what he has done for us and where we have come...:bowdown: take a bow Harry..