Am I missing something?
- Thread starter JonnySpurs
- Start date
thinktank
Hmmm...
- Sep 28, 2004
- 45,893
- 68,893
I'm yet to see one overreaction to what we witnessed yesterday.
In isolation, that game was a disaster...and it was a disaster that could have been avoided. Everyone could see it but AVB and that's what's made people very frustrated and upset.
We have very good resources now but they were poorly managed yesterday.
A game at home to west ham to potentially go top, with all our shiny new talent and hopes and aims to go for 4th and above...and we produce that??
People were upset and voiced it; it's totally understandable.
Everyone will calm down, but we have to stop with this 'knee-jerk' accusation rubbish every time someone makes any sort of criticism of our team/performance.
In isolation, that game was a disaster...and it was a disaster that could have been avoided. Everyone could see it but AVB and that's what's made people very frustrated and upset.
We have very good resources now but they were poorly managed yesterday.
A game at home to west ham to potentially go top, with all our shiny new talent and hopes and aims to go for 4th and above...and we produce that??
People were upset and voiced it; it's totally understandable.
Everyone will calm down, but we have to stop with this 'knee-jerk' accusation rubbish every time someone makes any sort of criticism of our team/performance.
CheeseGromit
Well-Known Member
- Aug 22, 2013
- 747
- 584
It was a horrible horrible result
I felt pig sick after the game as Wet Spam are a poor side.
If I want to be kind the game in Russia will have had an affect but how many players have we got
I got bothered by the lack of drive, that Fat Sam's tactics of pushing up on the MF not giving them time worked well ( as did Maureen's efforts to do the same the previous week so who will do it next.) and that we were soft.
New players take time to settle but the most energetic players we have Holtby and Sandro are getting little playing time
There is a difference playing in the prem and that is there is no easy game and that derby's are high intesive. We are now 1 and 2 and have to rectify that.
The only way to treat is that there is a second leg to come (return game ) and we have to win by more than 3 to equalise the pain.
Goals are still the issue.There are just not enough of them
I felt pig sick after the game as Wet Spam are a poor side.
If I want to be kind the game in Russia will have had an affect but how many players have we got
I got bothered by the lack of drive, that Fat Sam's tactics of pushing up on the MF not giving them time worked well ( as did Maureen's efforts to do the same the previous week so who will do it next.) and that we were soft.
New players take time to settle but the most energetic players we have Holtby and Sandro are getting little playing time
There is a difference playing in the prem and that is there is no easy game and that derby's are high intesive. We are now 1 and 2 and have to rectify that.
The only way to treat is that there is a second leg to come (return game ) and we have to win by more than 3 to equalise the pain.
Goals are still the issue.There are just not enough of them
panoma
Well-Known Member
- Jan 16, 2012
- 3,948
- 12,282
Why are we so shit after an EL game?
Chelsea played away to us, away in fuckin Romania and then away to Norwich and had no problems even when making way less changes to the team than we did.
Arsenal have won like 10 in a row following a CL game, but we keep looking horrible after an EL game way to often. Sure the CL sides get 1 more day to recover 50% of the time, but we also had the same issue when we played in the CL.
Chelsea played away to us, away in fuckin Romania and then away to Norwich and had no problems even when making way less changes to the team than we did.
Arsenal have won like 10 in a row following a CL game, but we keep looking horrible after an EL game way to often. Sure the CL sides get 1 more day to recover 50% of the time, but we also had the same issue when we played in the CL.
I agree with think tank yet also agree that if jd had scored at the start of the 2nd half things could have been very different so it was just one of those days. I suggest we allow ourself the rest of today to vent a little & then find another way to pass the boring international break before looking forward to a response against villa & hopefully some goals.
On a side note will lamella, sandro etc be off on long jaunts with their national teams arriving back a day or so before villa?
On a side note will lamella, sandro etc be off on long jaunts with their national teams arriving back a day or so before villa?
Spurs_Bear
Well-Known Member
- Jan 7, 2009
- 17,094
- 22,286
I think the OP is missing something, knee-jerks are always going to happen when you get skanked by a lower table team at home which happened frequently in years gone by.
But getting humped by scumbags in your own back yard is going to take knee-jerking to a new level, I honestly cant remember a result as embarrassing as that for a long while, it even surpasses the 2-1 loss to Norwich at home a couple of years ago for me. It's up there with the Hull 1-0 a couple of weeks before Ramos got the old size 10.
But getting humped by scumbags in your own back yard is going to take knee-jerking to a new level, I honestly cant remember a result as embarrassing as that for a long while, it even surpasses the 2-1 loss to Norwich at home a couple of years ago for me. It's up there with the Hull 1-0 a couple of weeks before Ramos got the old size 10.
ethanedwards
Snowflake incarnate.
- Nov 24, 2006
- 3,380
- 2,506
This comment is IMO a bit of a kneejerk to the criticism of the defeat, nowhere on this site have I seen anyone seriously calling for AVB to be sacked.
He fucked up yesterday, it is not suprising criticism is heading his way.
mpickard2087
Patient Zero
- Jun 13, 2008
- 21,900
- 32,611
I think people get over excited with a few wins. A defeat like that people come back to reality and do start to scrutinise the results and wins that preceded it.
Whilst we have been in control of games, there have been a couple of warning signs:
- We have struggled to score goals. For whatever reason this is (players settling in, missed chances, not creating enough real opportunities) its been a pattern of the league games so far.
- Even with a good defensive record, we have been giving up chances in most of the games. Lloris has been praised a lot this season. Eventually we were going to concede, and when its first, this puts the spotlight back on the previous point.
I think the majority of posters are just nervous about what we are going to see in future weeks if players don't settle and still havent firing. Of course, there is a good chance that we may get relatively controlled 1-0/2-0 wins. We may also see the odd frustrating result.
When you couple this with AVB making some silly errors (well, as the majority see it) and inflexibility with his approach (his selections on the left hand side and hamstringing us being an example), I can understand people sobering up and expectations being lowered. We are a work in progress. We were before yesterdays game, we still are now. We just hope they learn from setbacks and move forwards.
Whilst we have been in control of games, there have been a couple of warning signs:
- We have struggled to score goals. For whatever reason this is (players settling in, missed chances, not creating enough real opportunities) its been a pattern of the league games so far.
- Even with a good defensive record, we have been giving up chances in most of the games. Lloris has been praised a lot this season. Eventually we were going to concede, and when its first, this puts the spotlight back on the previous point.
I think the majority of posters are just nervous about what we are going to see in future weeks if players don't settle and still havent firing. Of course, there is a good chance that we may get relatively controlled 1-0/2-0 wins. We may also see the odd frustrating result.
When you couple this with AVB making some silly errors (well, as the majority see it) and inflexibility with his approach (his selections on the left hand side and hamstringing us being an example), I can understand people sobering up and expectations being lowered. We are a work in progress. We were before yesterdays game, we still are now. We just hope they learn from setbacks and move forwards.
StartingPrice
Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
- Feb 13, 2004
- 32,568
- 10,280
worcestersauce
"I'm no optimist I'm just a prisoner of hope
- Jan 23, 2006
- 27,007
- 45,318
What we got yeterday was a heavy dose of reality, we lost because we didn't score, sounds daft I know but that's the truth whatever positive or negative spin anyone puts on it.
Two weeks ago we were nearly top of the league, why only nearly, because we hadn't scored enough goals, we'd only let one in granted but in that case you'd think our goal difference would be superior to a team that had let in four time that many but it wasn't and it wasn't because we hadn't scored enough goals.
Is the point I'm making becoming clear yet? Yes? good.
Yesterday's result has been waiting to happen, ok I didn't expect it to happen at home against West Ham but then again nor did the team I recken, so when we went two down our players went into rabbit caught in the headlights mode, shock and confusion followed by disbelief, simple as that.
The positive is that if AVB didn't know the problem before, and I'm sure he did, he certainly got a wake up call to sort it out quick, you watch the next run of games and see if you don't see a loosening of some of the shackles and a few more chances being taken.
I too have been amused at some of the posts I've seen not least ones calling for two defensive midfielders to protect our high line defence, and at home against West Ham too!!! but when people call for this or that player to be dropped it may be knee jerk but it betrays an underlying understanding that good as we are we need some tweaks and changes and that will include changes in personel, I have my view on who but to be honest I think it will be addressed when Danny Rose returns.
It wasn't a blip so don't think it was but it wasn't meltdown either; don't panic but by all means take it seriously.
Two weeks ago we were nearly top of the league, why only nearly, because we hadn't scored enough goals, we'd only let one in granted but in that case you'd think our goal difference would be superior to a team that had let in four time that many but it wasn't and it wasn't because we hadn't scored enough goals.
Is the point I'm making becoming clear yet? Yes? good.
Yesterday's result has been waiting to happen, ok I didn't expect it to happen at home against West Ham but then again nor did the team I recken, so when we went two down our players went into rabbit caught in the headlights mode, shock and confusion followed by disbelief, simple as that.
The positive is that if AVB didn't know the problem before, and I'm sure he did, he certainly got a wake up call to sort it out quick, you watch the next run of games and see if you don't see a loosening of some of the shackles and a few more chances being taken.
I too have been amused at some of the posts I've seen not least ones calling for two defensive midfielders to protect our high line defence, and at home against West Ham too!!! but when people call for this or that player to be dropped it may be knee jerk but it betrays an underlying understanding that good as we are we need some tweaks and changes and that will include changes in personel, I have my view on who but to be honest I think it will be addressed when Danny Rose returns.
It wasn't a blip so don't think it was but it wasn't meltdown either; don't panic but by all means take it seriously.
Exactly, a new state of the art training centre - world class players - what on earth do West Ham have??
And if something is shit then let's say it's shit not try and dress it up a little.
dagraham
Well-Known Member
- Sep 20, 2005
- 19,150
- 46,145
Yes, there will be OTT reactions but I believe some of it is linked to issues that were present before yesterdays game but are only now highlighted because of that turd of a result.
The fact is that we have only scored 6 goals in 7 games this season and, Cardiff apart, its not a case of the oppostion riding their luck. Also, we've only played 2 decent teams and haven't beaten either one. I think our good defensive record prior to yesterday was skewed somewhat by Lloris saving our arses and the fact that we monopolised possession without over-commiting, hence our low scoring games.
Of course, we have a lot of new players and we won't be able to fully judge until Christmas but the knee jerking is not helped by some ridiculous over hyping. Nonsense talk of winning the league and having a better squad than Chelsea, laughing at and underestimating Liverpool etc all serve to whip others into a frenzy, with the inevitable comedown which follows.
As for criticisms of players, it is possible that some have held views about players even when the going was good. Not everything is as a result of one game. As long as its contructive, I don't see a problem with it.
There is some decent analysis out there if you look for it.
The fact is that we have only scored 6 goals in 7 games this season and, Cardiff apart, its not a case of the oppostion riding their luck. Also, we've only played 2 decent teams and haven't beaten either one. I think our good defensive record prior to yesterday was skewed somewhat by Lloris saving our arses and the fact that we monopolised possession without over-commiting, hence our low scoring games.
Of course, we have a lot of new players and we won't be able to fully judge until Christmas but the knee jerking is not helped by some ridiculous over hyping. Nonsense talk of winning the league and having a better squad than Chelsea, laughing at and underestimating Liverpool etc all serve to whip others into a frenzy, with the inevitable comedown which follows.
As for criticisms of players, it is possible that some have held views about players even when the going was good. Not everything is as a result of one game. As long as its contructive, I don't see a problem with it.
There is some decent analysis out there if you look for it.
SteveH
BSoDL candidate for SW London
- Jul 21, 2003
- 8,642
- 9,313
Nah! it was that bad.
The team performance was woeful.
I thought our old friend Juande Ramos had returned for guess managment appearance at 3am this morning.
But sadly it was, no nightmare.
JUSTINSIGNAL
Well-Known Member
- Jul 10, 2008
- 16,033
- 48,769
At last a bit of perspective. It hurts being beaten by a small team but it's not a signal to make wholesale changes to tactics, formation and personnel like many kneejerkers are suggesting.
The beauty of football is it's 11 men against 11 and despite what ability looks like on paper the game is not won until the final whistle. West Ham wanted it more than us and we got beaten. It's that simple. No need to make major changes to a side that up until yesterday had only conceded 2 goals and had dominated in pretty much every match.
What really grinds my gears is when you get idiots who are quiet before the match and then as soon as we get beaten they pipe up and say "we should have played player x or player Y" or we should have "played 442 or 433" and then claim their revolutionary strategy would have won the match. It's all very easy to use hindsight but sometimes teams just lose because a few players don't perform or there is complacency. It's not always some deep rooted tactical or managerial problem.
We don't need to over react because up until yesterday we were one of the form teams in the league. Defeats happen, get over it.
The beauty of football is it's 11 men against 11 and despite what ability looks like on paper the game is not won until the final whistle. West Ham wanted it more than us and we got beaten. It's that simple. No need to make major changes to a side that up until yesterday had only conceded 2 goals and had dominated in pretty much every match.
What really grinds my gears is when you get idiots who are quiet before the match and then as soon as we get beaten they pipe up and say "we should have played player x or player Y" or we should have "played 442 or 433" and then claim their revolutionary strategy would have won the match. It's all very easy to use hindsight but sometimes teams just lose because a few players don't perform or there is complacency. It's not always some deep rooted tactical or managerial problem.
We don't need to over react because up until yesterday we were one of the form teams in the league. Defeats happen, get over it.
SteveH
BSoDL candidate for SW London
- Jul 21, 2003
- 8,642
- 9,313
Losing at the Emirates the other week to a good Arsenal outfit by an annoyingly good goal. Comes under the "Defeats happen, get over it" category. Losing, no sorry - not turning up and then losing 0-3 to a side in the bottom three. This should have at least two full days of bloody negative moaning from all Spurs fans.
I think the coaching team including AVB should take it in turns to sit in centre circle at WHL 24/7 stark bollock naked with only the cockerel head on, for the next two weeks. With a webcam on them to verify the whole thing.
Overreact, impossible........
- Oct 2, 2004
- 48,329
- 47,578
- Staff
- #36
Has anyone said it wasn't embarrassing?
JonnySpurs
SC Veteran
- Jun 4, 2004
- 5,346
- 12,398
- Thread starter
- #37
It was all over twitter mate, I didn't actually say that it was being said on SC.
In fairness though, Twitter is a much easier place to find fickle fans.
DiscoD1882
SC Supporter
- Mar 27, 2006
- 6,986
- 14,847
Thanks for putting in to words what I couldnt be arsed to write. Such a massive over reaction. Yes it hurt. But get a grip. we are three points off top spot. FFS.
JonnySpurs
SC Veteran
- Jun 4, 2004
- 5,346
- 12,398
- Thread starter
- #39
I think what is being lost a bit in my overall point was that nobody is excusing or trying to find justification for why we lost. We lost because we were absolute crap on the day. But that's what it was, on the day, and I think that many take a defeat like it's the end of the world and forget that next week we could win comfortably and the world will be all sunshine and birds singing again.
I fuckin hate losing....oh my god...it ruins my whole weekend. I also loathe West Ham as a football club so to be beaten by them is sickening, embarrassing and every other suitable description for it.
BUT.....
I'm not gonna start sitting here saying that this player has "never" been good enough or that AVB is suddenly tactically inept or that the next game is "make or break". THAT my friends is total BS and cannot be described as anything over than knee-jerk.
Being angry and upset after a defeat is natural. But as it is right now, and as Justin has said above, whole sale changes are not required when it's only the 2nd loss in god knows how many games. I'm not trying to tell people how to feel/react (even though it probably seems like it) I'm just airing my frustration at how fans seem to think that they know better or that this has been coming because they always said this should have happened or that player shouldn't have started.
I fuckin hate losing....oh my god...it ruins my whole weekend. I also loathe West Ham as a football club so to be beaten by them is sickening, embarrassing and every other suitable description for it.
BUT.....
I'm not gonna start sitting here saying that this player has "never" been good enough or that AVB is suddenly tactically inept or that the next game is "make or break". THAT my friends is total BS and cannot be described as anything over than knee-jerk.
Being angry and upset after a defeat is natural. But as it is right now, and as Justin has said above, whole sale changes are not required when it's only the 2nd loss in god knows how many games. I'm not trying to tell people how to feel/react (even though it probably seems like it) I'm just airing my frustration at how fans seem to think that they know better or that this has been coming because they always said this should have happened or that player shouldn't have started.
ShelfSide18
Well-Known Member
- Aug 23, 2006
- 8,386
- 3,122
I think the fans were equally as terrible as players and management yesterday, and is a theme that has developed in recent years - in fact it's sometimes difficult for me to say I enjoy going to the lane any more. So many are caught up with a culture of expectation, the customer not the fan complex.
It was a very bad day at the office, I think the scoreline doesn't quite reflect the play and is something that has skewed some opinion which has led to some wild opinions chucked about. Sometimes it happens, that's the beauty of the game and whilst it hurts like hell, we wouldn't want it any other way would we?
I expect AVB will have a massive inquest into what went wrong, looking at himself and the team, but all in all it's probably his first utterly dreadful result with us, but it's one game. One solitary game, and no, this hasn't been coming at all. No one saw that in a million years.
If you can't see how bright the future is with us at the moment then I despair, I really do.
It was a very bad day at the office, I think the scoreline doesn't quite reflect the play and is something that has skewed some opinion which has led to some wild opinions chucked about. Sometimes it happens, that's the beauty of the game and whilst it hurts like hell, we wouldn't want it any other way would we?
I expect AVB will have a massive inquest into what went wrong, looking at himself and the team, but all in all it's probably his first utterly dreadful result with us, but it's one game. One solitary game, and no, this hasn't been coming at all. No one saw that in a million years.
If you can't see how bright the future is with us at the moment then I despair, I really do.
