AVB felt let down wanted to leave !! long read but worth it...

[ValenciaYid]

I like many, wanted AVB to succeed....he was after all the best looking and smoothest dresser in the league....damn you Andre and your dress sense!!!

 

[Ribble]

Of course managers have preferred transfer targets. But its a fool who cant adapt when they dont come off.

He adapted well enough to feed Bale and score 75 points last season. However when the summer ticked around again and there's still no sign of the player you asked for, despite him moving for a figure that was estimated a hell of a lot lower than the one almost paid the summer before, and even when you know that you're probably selling the player you were now built around for a world record fee, you're not going to be particularly happy are you? I'd go so far as to suggest your relationship with the people doing the buying could easily take an absolute nosedive as they were seemingly ignoring your plan in favour of their own one. How would you feel in a situation like that? I'd guess pretty disillusioned with the whole thing and rather alienated from your bosses.

 

[CowInAComa]

He adapted well enough to feed Bale and score 75 points last season. However when the summer ticked around again and there's still no sign of the player you asked for, despite him moving for a figure that was estimated a hell of a lot lower than the one almost paid the summer before, and even when you know that you're probably selling the player you were now built around for a world record fee, you're not going to be particularly happy are you? I'd go so far as to suggest your relationship with the people doing the buying could easily take an absolute nosedive as they were seemingly ignoring your plan in favour of their own one. How would you feel in a situation like that? I'd guess pretty disillusioned with the whole thing and rather alienated from your bosses.

You make him sound pathetic to be honest.

You credit him with having the genius to first pick Bale and then to hope he twatted a late wondergoal every game. Tactical fuckign mastermind.

I would suggest without Bale taking it upon himself to drag us through every game AvBs tenure wouldnt have lasted into the second season. His football was awful last season as well.

Yes. Im saying Bale would have produced similar under whoever was in charge.

 

[SuperPav]

Over a season ago. Why are we getting thumped 5 and 6 nil a year later. Why cant we buy a goal a year later.

Nonsense. Clubs lose players, clubs buy players. We performed far below the level of the squad for way too long.

Even the best clubs are in the world are amazingly dependent on certain players. This factor can simply not be underestimated.

Our squad is completely new and composed of foreign players from foreign leagues.

And we have performed decently in large parts of this season, and AVB's concept looked as if it was improving for the first 10 games. Agreed: Lately our defence has simply been to terrible, and our finishing the same. Also lacked creating proper clear chances. The defensive problem is caused by only Vlad and Vert being up to the job at CB imo, at having no backup at the left-back.

 

[SuperPav]

You make him sound pathetic to be honest.

You credit him with having the genius to first pick Bale and then to hope he twatted a late wondergoal every game. Tactical fuckign mastermind.

I would suggest without Bale taking it upon himself to drag us through every game AvBs tenure wouldnt have lasted into the second season. His football was awful last season as well.

Yes. Im saying Bale would have produced similar under whoever was in charge.

Off course we would have been way worse without Bale last season. Then we would have lost our three best players prior to the campagin. That isn't proving any point.

 

[CowInAComa]

Off course we would have been way worse without Bale last season. Then we would have lost our three best players prior to the campagin. That isn't proving any point.

I dont need to prove a point. His sacking, the embarrassing hidings we have taken over the last few weeks and our laughable goals for statistic do that for me. Not to mentions the utter boredom inducing matches he put us through for a season and a half.

I just thought he was a poor manager in over his depth. The subsequent excuses being made are painting him as a little pathetic as well, you arent doing him any favours.

 

[SpurSince57]

I might be wrong but isn't Burt AVB's media ally ?

Very much so. The truth lies somewhere in between this article and the Stobart one.

A wish list of Oscar, Fernandinho, Willian, Leandro Damiao, Henrik Mkhitaryan, Fabio Coentrao, Hulk and David Villa? We tried, but Chelsea gazumped us for Oscar and Willian (in the case of the latter, deliberately to queer our pitch) and Villa decided he'd prefer Atletí, who were falling about in loot. We were never going to compete with City for Fernandinho, fuck knows what was going on with Leandro, and after the Arshavin saga Levy wasn't going to be in a hurry to deal with Zenit again. Mkhitaryan's going to leave Dortmund for us? Dream on.

He's had almost £160m lavished on him in just three windows. That's not far off our spending under Redknapp and Ramos combined. He feels let down? Fuck off. And is he actually trying to claim he didn't really want the players we signed? (But according to the article he was all for Lamela, Soldado, Paulinho and Capoue, at least.) What he doesn't seem to have realised is that all that spending had to be bankrolled somehow, and that meant we had to give Bale his wish.

We had ITK this summer that Levy had total faith in AVB, so whatever's happened to fracture the relationship must have happened over the past three months.

 

[jambreck]

You might say that. You might also say that one has to question the genius of appointing a manager who sticks to a masterplan that is entirely dependent on certain players - and then not fulfilling his wishes.

And: It wasn't entirely dependent, but not signing obviously caused him to play a different system than he seemingly wanted to. You disagree?

Players such as Modric and Moutinho are extremely rare. Another example is Fernandinho - he held the same role at Shakhtar. And AVB was also after him.

The thing is that fans want scapegoats and simplistic denounciations. But this doesn't help the club forward. What happened was a large amount of events ultimately leading to failure for AVB. Some of those were caused by himself - stubbornness, relational skills etc. (it seems). But those are not really important anymore, because he is gone.

It is, however, extremely important to address any structural problems in the club, and how Levy is handling his job - and how he handled things under AVB. Because he is still here.

The players on AVB's list, such as Moutinho, Fernandinho, Oscar and Willian, are not easy to buy - as evidenced by the fact that, collectively, they cost about £105 million and each went to a financially doped club for which money is no object.

Levy can wish all he likes to sign players at that level but the harsh reality is that we will be beaten to the punch more often than not when up against the likes of Chelsea and Manchester City who can offer far higher wages and the promise of instant title challenges and Champions League football.

I hope that AVB understood that elementary truth and that the failure to sign such players wasn't the source of his feeling unsupported at the club. If it really was, then it betrays a huge naivety on his part and a failure to grasp basic economic principles and human nature (or, at least, the nature of modern day footballers). Personally, I credit him with more savvy than that.

 

[jambreck]

He adapted well enough to feed Bale and score 75 points last season. However when the summer ticked around again and there's still no sign of the player you asked for, despite him moving for a figure that was estimated a hell of a lot lower than the one almost paid the summer before, and even when you know that you're probably selling the player you were now built around for a world record fee, you're not going to be particularly happy are you? I'd go so far as to suggest your relationship with the people doing the buying could easily take an absolute nosedive as they were seemingly ignoring your plan in favour of their own one. How would you feel in a situation like that? I'd guess pretty disillusioned with the whole thing and rather alienated from your bosses.

72 points, for what it's worth.

You make it sound as if AVB had no say in any of the signings; that they were all foisted upon him, against his will. I seriously doubt that that is the case.

And it's not hard to imagine the difficulty that any club would have in keeping a player happy when that player has a club like Real Madrid exerting huge pressure on him to sign for them. I'm sure that AVB, at least, understood.

 

[dannythomas]

First of all I don't believe for 1 second that Man U offered 100m for Bale. That was disinformation probably spread by Levy to up the anti with Real. Man U record signing remains Berbatov. Suddenly they were offering 3 times that amount ?? Yes and pigs fly.
I also think AVB compounded our problems by getting rid or discarding , in 1 way or another, of Caulker, Adebayor, Huddlestone, BAE and Carroll. If we had kept them in the squad then maybe we could have had more continuity and maybe the transition would not have been so dramatic. We didn't really need Chadli or Chiriches. Paulinho too was questionnable when he is maybe a slight upgrade on Dembele. Probably not Lamela. Too much money for a player with limited track record. On the other hand we needed a goalscoring winger or to go some way to replacing Bale. And was Soldado the only striker we could find ? Levy could have played hardball with Real and said Di Maria , Morata or yes, even Ozil or Bale stays. Liverpool called Suarez bluff. Same with Man U and Rooney. We didnt have to sell Bale for another year. It was great to have all that money but we didnt spend it that wisely. My opinion is that Real would have capitulated and made it happen. And having sold Bale we could easily have bought Loic Remy for peanuts.

Lloris

Walker Caulker Vertonghen BAE

Sandro Dembele

Di Maria Eriksen Remy

Adebayor

Subs : Friedel, Rose, Capoue, Holtby, Huddlestone, Lennon, Soldado,


That is 5 new signings instead of 7 and 2 of them on the bench. 8 players from last season. Is that side any weaker than any we have put out this season ? Evolution not revolution. And money in the bank. The new signings maybe

Whose fault ? Levy and Lewis for their " revolution " idea , Baldini for the wrong signings , AVB for discarding players we should have kept. General mass screw up.

 

[SpurSince57]

First of all I don't believe for 1 second that Man U offered 100m for Bale. That was disinformation probably spread by Levy to up the anti with Real. Man U record signing remains Berbatov. Suddenly they were offering 3 times that amount ?? Yes and pigs fly.
I also think AVB compounded our problems by getting rid or discarding , in 1 way or another, of Caulker, Adebayor, Huddlestone, BAE and Carroll. If we had kept them in the squad then maybe we could have had more continuity and maybe the transition would not have been so dramatic. We didn't really need Chadli or Chiriches. Paulinho too was questionnable when he is maybe a slight upgrade on Dembele. Probably not Lamela. Too much money for a player with limited track record. On the other hand we needed a goalscoring winger or to go some way to replacing Bale. And was Soldado the only striker we could find ? Levy could have played hardball with Real and said Di Maria , Morata or yes, even Ozil or Bale stays. Liverpool called Suarez bluff. Same with Man U and Rooney. We didnt have to sell Bale for another year. It was great to have all that money but we didnt spend it that wisely. My opinion is that Real would have capitulated and made it happen. And having sold Bale we could easily have bought Loic Remy for peanuts.

Lloris

Walker Caulker Vertonghen BAE

Sandro Dembele

Di Maria Eriksen Remy

Adebayor

Subs : Friedel, Rose, Capoue, Holtby, Huddlestone, Lennon, Soldado,


That is 5 new signings instead of 7 and 2 of them on the bench. 8 players from last season. Is that side any weaker than any we have put out this season ? Evolution not revolution. And money in the bank. The new signings maybe

Whose fault ? Levy and Lewis for their " revolution " idea , Baldini for the wrong signings , AVB for discarding players we should have kept. General mass screw up.

No we didn't, but I fancy the brutal economic truth was that it was keep Bale and bring in just a couple of players in, or sell him and buy the players AVB wanted—because I really do not believe for a moment this claim that he didn't approve this summer's signings (and the article flatly contradicts that in any case).

I think we did need Chiriches, and the way the Kaboul situation is looking we might have to sign another. Vlad's certainly an upgrade on Caulker, who wasn't particularly good in the air either. I don't see Paulinho as an upgrade on Dembélé either: Dembélé's a more accurate passer and a more effective ball-winner, and neither of them scores anywhere near as many goals as he should.

According to many on here, Remy wasn't good enough for us.

Another point I meant to make in my earlier response: I would be absolutely astounded if this article was knocked out on Monday afternoon. This parting of the ways has been on the cards for a while now.

 

[thewolfman]

No we didn't, but I fancy the brutal economic truth was that it was keep Bale and bring in just a couple of players in, or sell him and buy the players AVB wanted—because I really do not believe for a moment this claim that he didn't approve this summer's signings (and the article flatly contradicts that in any case).

I think we did need Chiriches, and the way the Kaboul situation is looking we might have to sign another. Vlad's certainly an upgrade on Caulker, who wasn't particularly good in the air either. I don't see Paulinho as an upgrade on Dembélé either: Dembélé's a more accurate passer and a more effective ball-winner, and neither of them scores anywhere near as many goals as he should.

According to many on here, Remy wasn't good enough for us.

Another point I meant to make in my earlier response: I would be absolutely astounded if this article was knocked out on Monday afternoon. This parting of the ways has been on the cards for a while now.

Couldn't agree more. I think the poor quality football and lack of cohesion within the team would have been giving Levy a cause for concern for a while now. Man City and Liverpool results would have compounded this as well as the fact that AVB refused to take responsibility by blaming the players and fans (and anybody else who wasn't him) for the poor results that followed. His refusal to change anything came from his belief that he was not to blame and I think that ultimately, that is why Levy chose to act now.

 

[playboypaul]

If this is an indirect way of AVB getting his version of events out then I am losing respect for him. It sounds like he is trying to win sympathy by saying these things, if this article truly is him trying to indirectly get his POV out. It may just be Burt defending AVB based on what he has heard from the horses mouth with a bit of try at defending the man but even so, it's come out as if AVB seems to feel himself hard done by.

By the sounds of it he wanted to keep Bale and Modric, fair enough, but the pair of them wanted to go and were forcing through their moves, not much can be done in those situations. I think we did well to get top dollar for them which is the best result that the club could hope for. We cant keep players who are in those frame of minds, it would be detrimental to the club. So I think with those two situations Levy got the best possible outcome that he could and I don't think AVB can bemoan the fact that they left.

AVB must know we cant always keep the players we want to and that when players heads are turned, that the best thing to do with them is to sell them with the best possible recompense. Further more, with the Bale money, the whole lot of it got reinvested back in to the squad, I don't see much for him to complain about with how these scenarios worked out considering that Bale was, as far as we know adamant that he was going to Real and Modric definitely wanted to go.

Something else, there have been whispers that the players signed weren't AVB's signings. There was a quote the other day when he was asked about the players who were brought in to the club. It was something like this, Interviewer: 'Were the summer signings your choices?' AVB: 'I cant comment on that'. Well, this article says that at least four of the seven we did sign, are ones who AVB wanted. I get the feeling that AVB is trying to insinuate that he didn't get any of the players he wanted which is just not true. So he had to deal with three extra players he didn't want, but who added desperately needed squad depth, so what??! The squad was lacking in depth and the players who he 'didn't want' are quality: Eriksen, Chiriches and to a lesser extent Chadli, but he is still a Belgian international. I find it incredible that he feels hard done by having these three players 'dumped' on his door.

So considering that he has got four of the players that he did want, but has the temerity to bemoan that he didn't get others that he did want, Oscar, Fernandinho, Willian, Leandro Damiao, Henrik Mkhitaryan, Fabio Coentrao, Hulk and David Villa. A whole eight other players, on top of the four that we did get in, this whole point about intergration goes out the window because if he had his way we would have had twelve players new to the squad. And imagine that squad?! How unbalanced would it be? Amazing.

Then it says in the article that he was unsure that he wanted to give the squad a radical overhaul?!! You what??!!!! He wanted all those players yet was unsure that he wanted a radical overhaul.

He must surely understand that it is very rare for a club that isn't one of the European giants to be able to go out and just sign the exact player that they want mustn't he? And that there are contingency lists of payers drawn up who you turn to when you don't get your first choice? This whole Moutinho thing is a funny one, people saying that Levy didn't want to fork out all that money on a player who was what? 26/27? Then later in the window goes and spends £26m on an even older player?!! I know there is probably a lot more to it then that but there are a lot of things not stacking up here.

AVB can't have truly expected for the club to go out and sign every one of the players that he had identified? I even get the feeling that he thinks he definitely would have succeeded if we had!!! Its ludicrous if that was/is his expectation!

Another thing, wasn't it said that at the very beginning, when AVB first signed, that he did want Ade? And now he is putting out in the press that he didn't feel backed by the club over Adebayor?!!

Finally, the whole Baldini scenario is a strange one. He calls for him to be brought in to the fold, heralds his appointment and then when it all goes sour, it seems to me that he is trying to apportion some blame on Baldini. There seems some resentment there towards the man. All very childish if you ask me. Why cant he just hold his hands up and accept some responsibility for the way things have gone and be a man about it, he is coming across very childish to me.

I'm getting a very strong sense that he isn't willing to accept any blame or acknowledge that he is any way shape or form even partly responsible for the way things have panned out. I think he feels that it is all somebody else's fault.

Something else that annoys me in this piece is the bit about PSG. We allowed him to go and talk to them so
we must have been happy for him to leave. The fact that he stayed, even though he must have known Levy was willing to let him go, and then thought that his 'loyalty' deserved a new contract gets me angry. In fact, if I was allowed to speak to another club and I was in his position then I would get the impression that my bosses don't value my services highly and took that as a sign that maybe I should just leave.

It must have been apparent to AVB at that point that the relationship wasn't going to be long term and I get the impression that he believes so strongly in 'his' method that he stayed out of determination to prove the doubters wrong and that his 'system' will work. I also think that he believes that last seasons photo finish was more down to him then it was to Bale saving our asses week in week out.

All that said, there are no quotes, and it may well be Burt just spouting rubbish but I get the feeling that there is something to all this.

Time will tell, AVB cant help but talk about his past and one day we will get his POV straight from the horses mouth.

 

[playboypaul]

Something else I think about AVB is that he has pushed himself too far too fast. That whole thing with Mourinho, AVB wanted to become a manager and Mourinho was ahead of him in the hierarchy, AVB wanted more responsibility and he wasn't getting, perhaps Maureen recognised AVB's limitations yet the man himself didn't.

He was still learning his trade but wanted the top job way too quickly and I think that's got a lot to do with his failing. He hasn't learnt all he needs to know to be a manager, served no real apprenticeship. Something like what Chris Haughton has done, followed the right track to management, AVB wanted to fast track himself. I think he has an inflated opinion of his own ability and didn't like the idea of spending years learning the intricacy's of management.

 

[SpurSince57]

Something else I think about AVB is that he has pushed himself too far too fast. That whole thing with Mourinho, AVB wanted to become a manager and Mourinho was ahead of him in the hierarchy, AVB wanted more responsibility and he wasn't getting, perhaps Maureen recognised AVB's limitations yet the man himself didn't.

He was still learning his trade but wanted the top job way too quickly and I think that's got a lot to do with his failing. He hasn't learnt all he needs to know to be a manager, served no real apprenticeship. Something like what Chris Haughton has done, followed the right track to management, AVB wanted to fast track himself. I think he has an inflated opinion of his own ability and didn't like the idea of spending years learning the intricacy's of management.

'"Certes," says he,
"I have already chose my officer."
And what was he?
Forsooth, a great arithmetician,
One Michael Cassio, a Florentine,
That never set a squadron in the field,
Nor the division of a battle knows
More than a spinster; unless the bookish theoric,
Wherein the toged consuls can propose
As masterly as he: mere prattle, without practice,
Is all his soldiership.'

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

Irrespective of whether the players bought were AVB's or not. For the £100m outlay you don't expect to be thrashed 6-0 and 5-0 by your main rivals. Any manager of any ambitious club would be bombed for this so I'm at a lost to see why so many people are blindly supporting him still

 

[playboypaul]

The guy just seems to keep getting the benefit of the doubt. I just cant understand it. People keep making excuses for him.

 

[ethanedwards]

What has Dawson got to do with this? What i am saying is that if AVB has Moutinho, it would be easier for AVB to preach his footballing philosophy to the team. Yes, I agree that AVB fails in that department - playing Dawson and yet playing the high line.....It was good earlier though with Vert and Rose in the back 4.....But without Rose and with Dawson in there, AVB should not employ the high line.The rebel in Chelsea is not about knowing his system but rather a few seniors did not want to believe in it. There were clashes of egos/personalities. Isn't it?

Personally I think this mythical psuedo philosophy thing is a crock of shit.

 

[ero1x]

Excellent article by Jason Burt. It gives you a rare insight into the inner workings at spurs, and tbh it's not a pleasant one. I can now understand why AVB left (note that I said left not sacked), he knew his time was up a while back. Matter of fact he knew he was on a tight rope since the start of the season. The very fact that he wasn't offered a contract by Levy after the PSG approach speaks volumes, especially after AVB showed his loyalty by choosing to stay. The key point in all of this is this quote:



What this says is that not everyone at spurs was on board with AVBs philosophy and direction. Most of us seem to think that the 'agenda' AVB talked about was external to the club and directed at the media, but what seems to be missed here is the internal 'agenda'. When you have everyone on the same page at home, it imbues confidence and makes it easier to do your job. But when the very people you work with have no confidence in your ability or efforts, and are clearly undermining you then it all becomes pointless. People like Sherwood, Ferdinand etc. are going to kill this club from the inside. They don't have the vision, experience or the talent to be anywhere close to the man they helped undermine.

I always wondered why we never had our own Wenger or Ferguson. I think I now know why. AVB is a manager ahead of his time and people at the club are far too short sighted to see it.

AVB failed to learn from a lot of the mistakes he made at the Chavs, I mean why the hell would you alienate a striker who apart from being the highest earner at the club was also potentially the best fit for the system he wanted to incorporate? The man was an absolute joke, his style of football was akin to watching paint dry and if he had any balls or respected the fans of our club (whom he openly criticised remember?) he would have offered his resignation when/if he thought he was being undermined or didn't like what was going on behind the scenes, in the end by all accounts he didn't just leave the club as you say, he was actually SACKED.

As for AVB being ahead of his time, I have to absolutely disagree with that sentiment my friend. He has failed miserably at managing 2 big clubs in a big league so at this point in time I rate him as average at best.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

AVB failed to learn from a lot of the mistakes he made at the Chavs, I mean why the hell would you alienate a striker who apart from being the highest earner at the club was also potentially the best fit for the system he wanted to incorporate? The man was an absolute joke, his style of football was akin to watching paint dry and if he had any balls or respected the fans of our club (whom he openly criticised remember?) he would have offered his resignation when/if he thought he was being undermined or didn't like what was going on behind the scenes, in the end by all accounts he didn't just leave the club as you say, he was actually SACKED.

As for AVB being ahead of his time, I have to absolutely disagree with that sentiment my friend. He has failed miserably at managing 2 big clubs in a big league so at this point in time I rate him as average at best.

Do you know what happened behind the scenes? Do you really know why he alienated Ade?

Unless we know the reasons then calling AVB an "absolute joke" is a very unfair.