Dele Alli at Everton

[talbot64]

He needs to prove he is of more value than Lamela for the bench impact and better than Lo Celso or NDombele to start.

Hope he can turn it around not least for the home grown benefit but it just doesn’t feel like it’s going to happen.

 

[talbot64]

He's gonna have to reasses his game and adapt to try and fit into the positions we have. If I was him I'd be looking at Sissokos position and wondering If I can adapt my game to that role and looking to add the defensive work rate that Sissoko brings and seeing if I can match it whilst also being a better footballer. Give Jose something to think about and maybe Joss might prefer to only play one of Lo Celso or Tanguy at any time (hope not). His alternative is trying to take that spot that Moura, Bergwijn and Lamela are currently sharing.

I'd be looking at this situation thinking that Jose doesn't have a spot for my role and I need a complete overhaul if I want to make it back in. He has the ability to offer something different than Moussa in that spot but will need to offer the same defensively.

Agree with this as an option for Dele, however Dele i suspect is more likely to say I will continue with my game as is, play my preferred position and get paid the same if not more money by leaving. He is not wrong to do so sometimes it suits all parties to let the player move on

 

[Japhet]

I'm assuming he'll start tonight v Antwerp. I'm also assuming Vinicius will start too and that could be a very tasty prospect. Vinicius has shown pretty good awareness of what's going on around him and a willingness to play teammates in. That could work very well for Dele. Fingers crossed.

 

[ajspurs]

People were writing off NDombele after last season. People were writing off Hojbjerg after two matches. Let's see what happens.

It feels obvious Dele has either been given a project to work on or an ultimatum.

Hope he works it out, as he can be more than a trick shot specialist if he wants to be.

True, I wasn't guilty of writing off those two but I did wrongly have my doubts over Lo Celso after a few games. This is a bit different though to me and I'm not saying Dele can't turn it around, but unlike Hojbjerg, Ndombele or even Lo Celso, I feel like I've been watching a poor Dele for maybe a couple of years now. In a strange way, I'm not sure if Poch helped in that Dele would be a starter regardless of how he was performing, he was untouchable in that team when maybe there were a few times he shouldn't have been. I'd have to go back and do my research to be fully sure of that though.

I honestly think he already becomes a much better player if he just starts to consistently move the ball much faster.

 

[Rosco1984]

We played Ndombele in front of Winks and Hojbjerg at Saints and then Lo Celso in front in the 2nd half, then Ndombele in fromt of Sissoko and Hojbjerg at Utd. Ndombeleis playedmore advancedthan Hojbjerg, Winks and Sissoko. Whether he will with Sissoko remains to be seen. I'd be interested to see an average heat map of where Alli and Ndombele typically cover on the pitch. I don't think there would be a big differenc.

4-3-3 Doesn't mean all three midfielders stay sat in front of the back 4. Barca played 433 and Iniesta was further forward than Xavi and Busquets but it was still 433. This is the same as what we played against United, Saints and Burnley. Ndombele is not playing a free role. He is still tracking back and playing as a CM he's just the most attacking of the three with Hojbjerg the deepest and most disciplined.

When its worked well its been this formation in the middle

------------------Hojbjerg
-------Sissoko--------
---------------------------Ndombele.

Ideally Lo Celso will eventually replace Sissoko. There is a massive difference between Alli's and Ndombele's average positions on the pitch Alli I always in or around the box.

 

[mil1lion]

4-3-3 Doesn't mean all three midfielders stay sat in front of the back 4. Barca played 433 and Iniesta was further forward than Xavi and Busquets but it was still 433. This is the same as what we played against United, Saints and Burnley. Ndombele is not playing a free role. He is still tracking back and playing as a CM he's just the most attacking of the three with Hojbjerg the deepest and most disciplined.

When its worked well its been this formation in the middle

------------------Hojbjerg
-------Sissoko--------
---------------------------Ndombele.

Ideally Lo Celso will eventually replace Sissoko. There is a massive difference between Alli's and Ndombele's average positions on the pitch Alli I always in or around the box.

Yeah followed Barca for years but it's funny that I don't see our system the same as theirs. It's obviously a very fluid system so will always expand. I base the 4231 system on having 2 deeper and one more advanced. I actually think 433 became 4231 and we don't see 433 used the way it once was much now. Sissoko is more defensive than Xavi so I consider him more in a 2.

I think Alli was a lot more advanced earlier under Poch. Not so much when we dominated possession less and the opposition had more of the ball. That's where I think Alli started to struggle more the less we occupied the high press. Unde Jose we play more on the breaks, absorb and counter with pace. I think the fast breaks will suit Alli though and I still fancy he will come good. He had a good showing last Thursday and hopefully will again today.

 

[mil1lion]

He's gonna have to reasses his game and adapt to try and fit into the positions we have. If I was him I'd be looking at Sissokos position and wondering If I can adapt my game to that role and looking to add the defensive work rate that Sissoko brings and seeing if I can match it whilst also being a better footballer. Give Jose something to think about and maybe Joss might prefer to only play one of Lo Celso or Tanguy at any time (hope not). His alternative is trying to take that spot that Moura, Bergwijn and Lamela are currently sharing.

I'd be looking at this situation thinking that Jose doesn't have a spot for my role and I need a complete overhaul if I want to make it back in. He has the ability to offer something different than Moussa in that spot but will need to offer the same defensively.

No chance Alli playing the Sissoko role. Can you imagine him filling in for the right back? I think its interesting that when Winks plays Hojbjerg plays more to the right too, I can only see Alli playing the more advanced position. I do get the impression though that if Ndombele doesn't play Jose would prefer Lo Celso to push on and play either Winks or Sissoko rather than Alli.

 

[wrd]

No chance Alli playing the Sissoko role. Can you imagine him filling in for the right back? I think its interesting that when Winks plays Hojbjerg plays more to the right too, I can only see Alli playing the more advanced position. I do get the impression though that if Ndombele doesn't play Jose would prefer Lo Celso to push on and play either Winks or Sissoko rather than Alli.

Yeah you'd have to have Hojbjerg filling in that particular aspect, he used to play RB now and then for Southampton didn't he. This is what I'm saying though, if I'm dele, I'm looking at those front 3 positions and not feeling hopeful, not feeling hopeful displacing Tanguy so I'd be aiming at that Winks/Sissoko spot as the one where maybe I can offer something different and better.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

4-3-3 Doesn't mean all three midfielders stay sat in front of the back 4. Barca played 433 and Iniesta was further forward than Xavi and Busquets but it was still 433. This is the same as what we played against United, Saints and Burnley. Ndombele is not playing a free role. He is still tracking back and playing as a CM he's just the most attacking of the three with Hojbjerg the deepest and most disciplined.

When its worked well its been this formation in the middle

------------------Hojbjerg
-------Sissoko--------
---------------------------Ndombele.

Ideally Lo Celso will eventually replace Sissoko. There is a massive difference between Alli's and Ndombele's average positions on the pitch Alli I always in or around the box.

Exactly. The difference between a 4231 and 433 is determined by whether number 10 plays closer to the striker or the wingers narrower and closer to the striker. If it’s the number 10 then that leaves us with 2 in Cm and therefore is a 4231, if it’s the wingers and leaves us with 3 midfield it’s a 433. It’s clear the wingers are playing closer to Kane this season, so we’re primarily setting up in a 433.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

I think this has been explained over and over again, but it's worth doing it one more time. We don't "play 433" or "play 4231" as a statement that sort of describes our overall style of play. The formation and positioning changes primarily due to whether or not we have the ball (ie. is defending or is attacking) and also whether or not we are trying to force an imbalance in the opponent or have already succeeded in forcing that imbalance. So it very much is a 433 formation that we deploy but also very much isn't.

 

[mil1lion]

I actually miss his nasty streak. Not sure if his injuries made him more reluctant. He is actually perfectly suited to replace Lamela in the future if he can get the fire back. Lamela has his history of injuries but he doesn't think twice when putting challenges in. He is getting older now though and we don't know how long he can stay fit for. I would keep Alli around to step in for Lamela. Maybe that's what Jose is trying to do by not playing him, trying to fire him up. I just got flashbacks to the movie Dodgeball trying to get that bloke angry

 

[Shadydan]

Looks to me like Jose is trying to break him and reset him so he aligns with his mentality.

 

[wrd]

Looks to me like Jose is trying to break him and reset him so he aligns with his mentality.

With the added benefit of letting the rest of the squad know what is expected and what happens if you let your standards slip.

 

[mil1lion]

Exactly. The difference between a 4231 and 433 is determined by whether number 10 plays closer to the striker or the wingers. If it’s the number 10 then that leaves us with 2 in Cm and therefore is a 4231, if it’s the wingers and leaves us with 3 midfield it’s a 433. It’s clear the wingers are playing closer to Kane this season, so we’re primarily setting up in a 433.

I think Jose was always a bit more cautious despite his time spent at Barca. When he went into management he went for more protection in front of the center backs. That's what I see him doing with us. He plays 2 of Winks, Sissoko or Hojbjerg in a 2 so when the wide players are forward one central midfielder comes across and leaving one more central.

I think we have a similar problem in central midfield to centre back at the moment in that Winks, Sissoko and Hojbjerg are better covering to the right (which is understable as they're right footed). I can see Lo Celso adding better balance as a left footed player and more comfortable coming over to the left side. Last Thurs was a good example of Winks struggling on that left side and giving away a few fouls.

I would argue that the early Poch system is more of a 433 to this one where we pressed high up with the centre backs either side of Dier/Wanyama (similar to the way Busquets did with Barca). That's the system I always think of with 433. I can understand why this is considered a 433 by people's comments on it though. It's definitely changed more with the wide players coming inside more when Kane drops in though. You could even say it goes to a front 1-2 where Kane is a 1 and Son/Moura make a 2 (although I think Son does it more but I think Bale will do it more than Moura does too).

I do think Lo Celso holds the key though as he's not as deep lying as Winks and much more in control of the ball than Sissoko. If we're to transition into that style more with 2 attacking fullbacks instead of one tucked in then we'll need to hold the ball better in central midfield. I think we're capable with both Lo Celso and Ndombele playing. Maybe next summer we need to find at least another who can hold onto the ball better in there when either of those are out (or maybe Skipp comes in). It's another thing that Alli doesn't do so well and doesn't suit him to be deep as he's more of an instinctive reactive player.

 

[spids]

Dele needs to simplify what he does and do everything quicker - first time passes, moving the ball, pressing the ball, getting back in position. Watching clips of Dele from 3 years ago he was a lot more direct and dynamic. Last 18 months he seems to want to be the nutmeg king and slows everything down. Being right footed and naturally gravitating to the left does not help him as he has neither pace or a left foot. With the arrival of Vinicius, Bergwijn and Bale in 2020, I think he is now in direct competition now with Lo Celso and Ndombele for a place in the midfield. He can do it but he needs to go back to basics.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

This outtake from an article by Delaney about pressing, which is simplistic despite its length and refers to Totteham not at all, might offer some explanation to Dele's present squad status:

“It is about player commitment, and the outlook you create in the squad,”
“Any approach is subject to the willingness of the players.”
The drop-off can be stark when even one component is missing. A hole in one area will create a chain reaction.
The same happens if any single player doesn’t buy in. The system breaks down. It doesn't go like clockwork. This is sometimes why managers appear to inexplicably drop some individuals.

Understanding pressing, the biggest trade secret in football

A huge improvement in pressing is widely seen as the major reason Bayern Munich won the Champions League and could now, in quite a literal sense, be the secret to success at the very top end of the game

www.independent.co.uk

 

[GLC10]

The hardest thing for Dele is to adapt to a more combative play style. He has a lot of quality but he needs to be more aggressive to play in the midfield. His best position on the field is behind 9. Against teams that are defending, he would be a good option.

 

[@Bobby__Lucky]

Exactly. The difference between a 4231 and 433 is determined by whether number 10 plays closer to the striker or the wingers. If it’s the number 10 then that leaves us with 2 in Cm and therefore is a 4231, if it’s the wingers and leaves us with 3 midfield it’s a 433. It’s clear the wingers are playing closer to Kane this season, so we’re primarily setting up in a 433.

Bravo. ? Thread was crying out for this statement.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Dele was a box to box 8 at MK Dons like young Gerrard, he was even quite deep at times. No reason why he can't re-adapt his game to being the more advanced CM in a 4-3-3 unless he only likes playing the 'lazy' n.o10/support striker role now.

I think he'll play his way back into the team, he's no idiot, he's had the kick up the bum, if he starts tonight I expect him to put on a good performance.

 

[punkisback]

Dele was a box to box 8 at MK Dons like young Gerrard, he was even quite deep at times. No reason why he can't re-adapt his game to being the more advanced CM in a 4-3-3 unless he only likes playing the 'lazy' n.o10/support striker role now.

I think he'll play his way back into the team, he's no idiot, he's had the kick up the bum, if he starts tonight I expect him to put on a good performance.

Yeah he can do, just needs to get the simple parts of the game right and let the flashy parts come out when he is further upfield. His problem is that his basic skills are poor, passing, moving, head up football. He isn't a bad technician, but there is something there mentally where he switches on for the complicated things but just has no thoughts towards the simple things. I don't know if he is trying to be too clever when he's on the ball in deeper areas or if it's a case that he cannot genuinely play a non instinctive head up game.