Does everyone else's summer really affect us that much?

[ShelfSide18]

OK so they've signed Hazard. Don't think he'll be as strong as Bale next season. Mata, good player but so is VDV. Marin isn't as good as Lennon. Even spending a lot of money player for player they aren't that special. If they keep Di Matteo which is likely they'll set up quite defensively but I don't think they have the players to defend so much. Ramires was really excellent for them last season and will improve again but Lampard, Terry, Essien and Drogba have been the foundation of their squad for some time and will still be a main part of their side next season (with the exception of Drogba) but they aren't going to get it done.

I like the way we are developing. We have some great attacking talent which is still developing. If we have Adebayor again next season the understanding between our forward players will be better. Sandro will likely play a lot more next season and become a key component of our side which is a huge plus and if we sign Vertonghen we will have a better central defence than any of those other sides at the top of the table.

So in my opinion we'll be finishing above Chelsea somewhere.

Good points, think i'd like to see who buys who, and who appoints who before I start making predictions but my early feelings are it's going to be tight around 3rd/4th/5th.

 

[Mullers]

There is a lot of talk going on over in the transfer rumours forum about how Chelsea signing Hazard means it is the end of our chances to qualify for the Champions League (or the end of the world as some would have you believe). But are Chelsea's or anyone else's signings really going to make that much of a difference to the Premiership landscape that whatever we do next season is a right off?

LOL that's crazy talk, we certainly need some good signings but we also need to marry that with work on the training ground and correct the mistakes we made last season that stopped us from coming third.

 

[mil1lion]

All that really matters is that we upgrade our squad. Chelsea have been a threat since the Russian Billionaire took over, so nothing is new there. We just need to focus on getting players who fit into our system and fit the wage structure of the club. We don't need to pay stupid wages to be a force, we've proven that.

For me the key signings are a top quality centre back who will partner Kaboul for years to come (seems like Jan is the man). An alternative pacey winger to compete with Lennon and Bale. Improve our firepower up front (whether we sign Ade or an alternative and to replace Saha). Ideally a backup for VDV as well.

Get those areas sorted and we'll have a much better balanced squad capable of 70+ points next season and possibly a trophy.

 

[not_tenth-again]

For me chelsea are the danger.... abramovich wants to build a super power, simple as that. They picked up the CL via the back door - thoroughly undeserved - but it now gives abramovich a launch pad for hazard like spending. Spurs, the farce, man u run on a business model, I think city will head that direction too. Chelsea do not.

Chelsea are still a billionaires play thing that follow no business or financial logic. Whereas our growth will be sustained and organic, they could do anything, the only thing certain is they will be a team that no enthusiast could appreciate.

I don't really see man u stepping up in a big way, city will not need to do much to continue on their path, the farce have one hope... he has the initials RVP. Were lacking a little balance but we're not far away. Chelsea... who knows? I don't think teams are that scared of but if we get a true striker and vertonghen, they may need to think twice.

 

[SNAFU_Clarke]

interesting that gourlay, (i think), has claimed that the champions league win will generate hundreds of millions of pounds in income for chelsea. it's a fairly blatant attempt to offset another round of spending on the squad for the purposes of getting round the FFP isn't it? that's what it looks like to me.

 

[ShayLaB]

You can highlight the pros/cons of individual players but Chelsea are a better team than us. They have been for years and managed to pull in the big prize this year. I really doubt you will see them falter as they did at the start of this season. If we are going to overtake any team this year it will be Arsenal. They are the most vulnerable of the teams playing in the CL next year.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

Generally your rivals strengthening does affect you. Chavski have signed some good players so far, and will be stronger next year.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

As Cech has just signed a new deal I would love Spurs to try and nab Courtois for like £8m

 

[StartingPrice]

Didn't they accrue the most points ever for a team that didn't win the title? So whilst they might not be as strong as they were made to look, they were certainly quite strong. One goal off winning the league basically.

Well, yeah they did.
But, actually, I can't see us surrendering 6 points to them so easily. And, as the OP said, some games they won jsut out of smaller teams being intimidated. Those of us were are around to to see it, can remember Liverpool having exactly the same thing in the early nineties, before the same teams started really having a go at them again as they weren't what they had been, and Liverpool really started having to earn points again.

Also, United were on a road to nowhere last season until they brought Paul Scholes back - how long will that last. And how long will Giggs and Ferdinand last?

I think the best that can be said for them, as I have just expressed it on another thread, is that they could be anything next season. Beetroot Head could pull a rabbit out of the hat, again - would hardly be the first time. Alternatively, again, for those of us who remember, he could, himself, go into a terminal decline ala Brian Clough, Scholes, Giggs and Ferdinand could go to sheeeee-ite, and the whole club could go on the slide a bit. But, I think that is really what the OP is saying, really - lets not all start saying we are sheeee-ite and everyone is great, just yet, eh!

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

Generally your rivals strengthening does affect you. Chavski have signed some good players so far, and will be stronger next year.

Clearly. It affects us for two games but I don't think that any of them can improve so much that it'll be impossible for us to beat them. Other teams improving affects us for 2 games, us improving affects us for 38 yet people seem to be more worried about what other teams are doing and the notion that opponents improving means we have been relegated to '4th at best' seems over the top to me.

 

[m*****73]

That being said for sure those teams will likely improve, but won't we as well? Aren't we close to signing Vertonghen, a top class centre back that is going to give us a stable partnership at the back not only adding quality but also more consistency which is something that we looked desperately short of particularly in the second half of the season when the defence seemed to chop and change every game. Surely that points to a big improvement to our side and if our fans are fearing Chelsea's moves, then I'd suggest they should equally fear ours especially as ours are likely to be adding to an already good young side with players who are going to get better as oppose to one that is adding flashy big name signings to try to paper over what is a rapidly declining core of players.

While I agree that we have a good team, I think that you are being overly optimistic in thinking that we can ignore what other club's are doing because you assume that we're somehow automatically going to improve as a team next season.

Firstly, Vertonghen: we haven't actually signed him yet. But let's assume that we do. You say that he's "a top class centre back". Really? He looks good in the Dutch league, but I'll wait to see how he copes in the Premiership before anointing him as the second coming of Jaap Stam. Hopefully we sign him, but even if we do I don't think that he's guaranteed to start ahead of Kaboul & Dawson.

Secondly, do you think Modric will leave? If so, what impact will that have on us?

Thirdly, how exactly do you think our current team will improve? Will Brad Friedel suddenly become a better goalkeeper at the age of 41? Will Van der Vaart and Scotty Parker improve at their age? Will Aaron Lennon suddenly become as good as Gareth Bale? Will Defoe suddenly become a complete striker, capable of holding the ball up and bringing teammates into play, rather than being a greedy 'head-down & shoot' centre forward?

The only players who I think are capable of significant improvement (taking into account their age, history of injuries, experience and general improvement shown this season) are Walker, Bale and Sandro. They could improve, or they might find it more difficult as other teams focus on them even more, or they could suffer injury, or (especially in the case of Bale) they might have their head turned by their agents and lose focus. That certainly happened with Modric this season.

And what about or rivals? Man City will improve - simply by winning the league, their mentality will be stronger. They'll probably sign a couple of very good players, plus they'll have Tevez back for a full season and the likes of Aguero and Silva will be more used to the English game.

Man. Utd have some real problems, but even despite that they'll almost certainly finish in the top 3 again. They'll have Vidic back and some of their younger players will probably improve, but they'll need to invest over the summer. I expect them to make a big bid for Modric and/or Sneijder.

Arsenal - obviously, it'll depend on what will happen with Van Persie. While I hate to admit it, I think Podolski will be a hit in the Premiership, but he won't be enough to cover for the loss of RVP. I think Wenger is changing his transfer strategy to focus on players that will help them to win now, rather than on youth, and if they hold on to Van Persie they'll be better than last season. Plus they have Champions League football to attract players to join them.... we don't.

Liverpool - in a mess thankfully. It'll be at least another season or two before they can really challenge for a top 3 spot.
Newcastle - won't repeat last season's performance.

Chelsea - they will have a clear-out and do a massive rebuilding job. Despite signing Hazard, I think they'll still try for Modric (maybe even Bale?) because Abramovich will want to match the Arabs at City if possible. Last season was a complete mess for them despite winning the Champions League. I can't see them being as poor in the league again next season.

So, to answer your question - "Does everyone else's summer really affect us that much?" "Yes, definitely and Levy needs to stop messing around, get rid of our deadwood to free up squad places and wage-roll, and make signing a new top class striker and a replacement for Modric his top priorities".

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Clearly. It affects us for two games but I don't think that any of them can improve so much that it'll be impossible for us to beat them. Other teams improving affects us for 2 games, us improving affects us for 38 yet people seem to be more worried about what other teams are doing and the notion that opponents improving means we have been relegated to '4th at best' seems over the top to me.

I'm not sure of your maths there IMLS. If us strengthening effects us for 38 games, then it also effects those around us that strengthen for 38 games, and that will impact us more than two times (that we meet) a season. They will be better and achieve better results/points throughout (potentially) and therefore impact the difference between us and them if they were weaker and achieving worse results.

 

[m*****73]

Clearly. It affects us for two games but I don't think that any of them can improve so much that it'll be impossible for us to beat them. Other teams improving affects us for 2 games, us improving affects us for 38 yet people seem to be more worried about what other teams are doing and the notion that opponents improving means we have been relegated to '4th at best' seems over the top to me.

Come again?!?!

Warped logic.

If Arsenal or Chelsea improve, it doesn't just affect their results against us, it affects their results against all the other teams over the course of the whole season.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I think - at this stage - the OP is veering heavily towards the optimistic side. Bale is different to Hazard, but Hazard is already showing more intelligence, finesse & cutting edge at times. Lennon is not better than Marin, they are different. Both are a bit light and a bit mercurial but Lennon is all about speed, Marin uses his brain more.

A big factor for me will also be the promotion of Torres to a regular starting birth. Once Torres gets into a rhythm he's a superb fulcrum - and playing with more intelligent, crafty players around him will suit him.

It's way to early to make judgements, we don't even have a top drawer striker on our books now.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

Come again?!?!

Warped logic.

If Arsenal or Chelsea improve, it doesn't just affect their results against us, it affects their results against all the other teams over the course of the whole season.

But what is the point in us worrying about what happens with the other games. We did that the second half of last season and it didn't do us any good. We let Arsenal winning a few games that we weren't involved in get right under our skin and as a result you could feel the tension everywhere.

Maybe my logic was completely wrong but it still seems over the top to start panicking because Chelsea have made a few signings. I'd rather think along the lines of us signing Vertonghen is going to have a far bigger impact on our season because it would allow us to have two centre backs that are capable of playing week in, week out in the same positions that are both top quality.

 

[mattyspurs]

I think - at this stage - the OP is veering heavily towards the optimistic side. Bale is different to Hazard, but Hazard is already showing more intelligence, finesse & cutting edge at times. Lennon is not better than Marin, they are different. Both are a bit light and a bit mercurial but Lennon is all about speed, Marin uses his brain more.

A big factor for me will also be the promotion of Torres to a regular starting birth. Once Torres gets into a rhythm he's a superb fulcrum - and playing with more intelligent, crafty players around him will suit him.

It's way to early to make judgements, we don't even have a top drawer striker on our books now.

I'm not concerned by Chelsea, I am only concerned by what we do, and I agree with IOMLS, that if we make the right signings, coupled with the very good team we already have, we should still be challnegingquite well for 3rd place.

But for me Chelsea biggest signing is one they don't have to make, and that is Torres. i agree with you BC, he will thrive on being the main man, and you will see him back to his best, that could be the biggest worry about Chelsea next season.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

I think - at this stage - the OP is veering heavily towards the optimistic side. Bale is different to Hazard, but Hazard is already showing more intelligence, finesse & cutting edge at times. Lennon is not better than Marin, they are different. Both are a bit light and a bit mercurial but Lennon is all about speed, Marin uses his brain more.

A big factor for me will also be the promotion of Torres to a regular starting birth. Once Torres gets into a rhythm he's a superb fulcrum - and playing with more intelligent, crafty players around him will suit him.

It's way to early to make judgements, we don't even have a top drawer striker on our books now.

...and Bale is showing more power, pace and has experience playing against better opposition. Marin isn't very good. I'm not going to lose a wink of sleep over Chelsea playing with Torres, that is weaker than them playing with Drogba.

Abramovich is obsessed by them playing attacking, entertaining football yet they are at their most effective when they defend and use direct power. They are still going to build the side around Lampard and Terry and if the coach tries to change that it'll end in tears. They have to go a long way to convince me they are good enough to get into the top 4. I think they have more questions than answers.

 

[SNAFU_Clarke]

Clearly. It affects us for two games but I don't think that any of them can improve so much that it'll be impossible for us to beat them. Other teams improving affects us for 2 games, us improving affects us for 38 yet people seem to be more worried about what other teams are doing and the notion that opponents improving means we have been relegated to '4th at best' seems over the top to me.

sorry but this is nonsense. we are in a league. our performance is measured against other teams over 38 games. if they strengthen, they strengthen for 38 games, the same as we do.

no one is saying it's impossible for us to beat another side on any given day. at least i don't think they are. i'm certainly not.

i'm looking at a 38 game league season and, considering all the myriad factors involved, think we'll be in a 3 team battle for 4th place that we could easily lose. my point is that i wouldn't consider losing that battle for 4th place as 'failure' or a 'disaster'. i would view it as roughly our place in the big scheme of things.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

When did football become so cold and calculated? Our performance isn't measured against other teams like it is a statistical evaluation of playing squads. Our performance is measured as a collection of results from individual matches where we play one team at a time. I agree that my statement was wrong, other teams improving is going to affect the table but improving our squad has far more influence on our performances. If we improve our side and play better football more regularly then I honestly couldn't care less who Chelsea or anyone else sign.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

Clearly. It affects us for two games but I don't think that any of them can improve so much that it'll be impossible for us to beat them. Other teams improving affects us for 2 games, us improving affects us for 38 yet people seem to be more worried about what other teams are doing and the notion that opponents improving means we have been relegated to '4th at best' seems over the top to me.

However, Arsenal, Manutd, Chavski, Man City, Newcastle, and Liverpool improving affects us for 14 games.