ENIC...

[McFlash]

Let's be fair we have only bought a couple of cheapos Hojbjerg and Doherty and only one decent mid range signing Reguilon (when I say decent I mean money-wise). Real quality doesn't come cheap even in a Covid world. We haven't bought Bale nor Vinicius, they could be with us for just 8 months. So the total of all these we actually spent on just one player last summer - Ndombele (and Ndombele is quality). So it has been a decent window (especially because the last few years we are used to piss poor ones) but let's not get carried away like we are suddenly a Ch£l$ki or a Man Shitty or a Manure with the purse strings.

So a proven quality CB should be very much affordable by us, and an absolute must this window. Otherwise, all the good work this window will be undone. Do you think we can win something with an iconic but sadly geriatric now Alderweireld, a CM playing CB, and not even going to mention Sanchez. Ben Davies a CB

Two things spring out to me with this.
Firstly, you can't judge a player by how much they cost. You need to look at things such as contract length and what they bring to the team that buys them. Just because they were "cheap", doesn't mean that they aren't astute signings for the buying team, nor does it mean that they aren't decent players.

Secondly, I think it can be argued that CB has always been Dier's destined position. He's not being thrown there out of desperation, he's playing there because it suits his skill set.
As for Davinson, I guess that comes down to opinion but I actually think he's a decent player and still has plenty of potential.

 

[Shadydan]

Two things spring out to me with this.
Firstly, you can't judge a player by how much they cost. You need to look at things such as contract length and what they bring to the team that buys them. Just because they were "cheap", doesn't mean that they aren't astute signings for the buying team, nor does it mean that they aren't decent players.

Secondly, I think it can be argued that CB has always been Dier's destined position. He's not being thrown there out of desperation, he's playing there because it suits his skill set.
As for Davinson, I guess that comes down to opinion but I actually think he's a decent player and still has plenty of potential.

Thirdly using Ndombele as an example of a 'quality' transfers when he's literally taken a year to settle

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

This has been an awesome window mate and it feels churlish to disagree with you, but I'd just like to contest a few points you make:
Was being the only club in the top 5 European Leagues to fail to buy a player in 2018 part of that clear "plan"? Or until yesterday, being the only club without a second recognised striker "the culmination of a 10 or 20 year plan"? Let's not pretent that ENIC have consistently strategised a clear, robust and effective policy for buying footballers over the years. There's been a litany of missed opportunities, of failure to secure primary targets, of failed cheap opportunist punts, of top players sold and never truly adequately replaced. As you yourself acknowledge, previous transfer window failures have necessitated the primacy of "plugging the gaps" in the squad. Surely, if as you suggest, that progressively improving the team season-in season out, has always been ENIC's "MO", then we wouldn't have needed a window like the current one in the first place!
I completely agree with your last statement mate. Great balanced squad, top manager. There's huge potential for us to win something significant with this group of players and coaching team. But we've been on the cusp of greatness before, only for our owners to fail to make that final push. Let's hope they don't allow that same complacency or negligence to creep in again. This is why the brilliant work Levy has done in this window has to be the standard default way he operates in the future. As you say, everything is in place now, so there's no reason for him not to. And correspondingly, there's less and less reason to defend him if he doesn't.

I think the reason there’s room for disagreement here is that you appear to look at their results and conclude that they represent their MO.

I think you may be confusing failure with method.

What I mean by that is, I do not believe they intended or wished to go two whole windows without improving the squad. It was a failure, not a plan.

I think it happened for a number of reasons including Levy’s High-risk negotiating style.

Unlike many others here, I don’t think they were ever stupid enough to think that a football club propers by consistently failing to invest in footballers.

 

[thekneaf]

This has been an awesome window mate and it feels churlish to disagree with you, but I'd just like to contest a few points you make:
Was being the only club in the top 5 European Leagues to fail to buy a player in 2018 part of that clear "plan"? Or until yesterday, being the only club without a second recognised striker "the culmination of a 10 or 20 year plan"? Let's not pretent that ENIC have consistently strategised a clear, robust and effective policy for buying footballers over the years. There's been a litany of missed opportunities, of failure to secure primary targets, of failed cheap opportunist punts, of top players sold and never truly adequately replaced. As you yourself acknowledge, previous transfer window failures have necessitated the primacy of "plugging the gaps" in the squad. Surely, if as you suggest, that progressively improving the team season-in season out, has always been ENIC's "MO", then we wouldn't have needed a window like the current one in the first place!
I completely agree with your last statement mate. Great balanced squad, top manager. There's huge potential for us to win something significant with this group of players and coaching team. But we've been on the cusp of greatness before, only for our owners to fail to make that final push. Let's hope they don't allow that same complacency or negligence to creep in again. This is why the brilliant work Levy has done in this window has to be the standard default way he operates in the future. As you say, everything is in place now, so there's no reason for him not to. And correspondingly, there's less and less reason to defend him if he doesn't.

This debate is really boring. We had a delay with the stadium build. It wasn't ideal, it was terribly timed, but it happened and we got through it. There are plans, there is reality, and then there are people who just can't let it go. We also didn't sell any first team players during that period.

I'm not interested in this window or that window, broadly we've stuck to the plan. Enjoy it.

 

[shelfboy68]

This has been an awesome window mate and it feels churlish to disagree with you, but I'd just like to contest a few points you make:
Was being the only club in the top 5 European Leagues to fail to buy a player in 2018 part of that clear "plan"? Or until yesterday, being the only club without a second recognised striker "the culmination of a 10 or 20 year plan"? Let's not pretent that ENIC have consistently strategised a clear, robust and effective policy for buying footballers over the years. There's been a litany of missed opportunities, of failure to secure primary targets, of failed cheap opportunist punts, of top players sold and never truly adequately replaced. As you yourself acknowledge, previous transfer window failures have necessitated the primacy of "plugging the gaps" in the squad. Surely, if as you suggest, that progressively improving the team season-in season out, has always been ENIC's "MO", then we wouldn't have needed a window like the current one in the first place!
I completely agree with your last statement mate. Great balanced squad, top manager. There's huge potential for us to win something significant with this group of players and coaching team. But we've been on the cusp of greatness before, only for our owners to fail to make that final push. Let's hope they don't allow that same complacency or negligence to creep in again. This is why the brilliant work Levy has done in this window has to be the standard default way he operates in the future. As you say, everything is in place now, so there's no reason for him not to. And correspondingly, there's less and less reason to defend him if he doesn't.

When you hire a manager like Jose with his pedigree you don't "plug gaps", he challenges/ demands the club to win from the top down to the players that is the Jose effect.
Hopefully we will win tomorrow but after the break I think we will start to see the best of us in the league along with picking up points to challenge the top four.

 

[[email protected]]

I think the reason there’s room for disagreement here is that you appear to look at their results and conclude that they represent their MO.

I think you may be confusing failure with method.

What I mean by that is, I do not believe they intended or wished to go two whole windows without improving the squad. It was a failure, not a plan.

I think it happened for a number of reasons including Levy’s High-risk negotiating style.

Unlike many others here, I don’t think they were ever stupid enough to think that a football club propers by consistently failing to invest in footballers.

I hear what you're saying mate, but I think it's hard to argue that "Levy's high-risk negotiating style" is just an unfortunate accident when it fails to reap rewards. In particular, waiting until the end of the window to do the bulk of his business, doesn't happen by chance. It's a policy; it's a choice prescribed to (hopefully) reap maximum value. It's very much his MO. But "Levytime" is flawed mate. Increasingly, it's been a failed policy, it's been scattergun. And crucially it's left us short. That's why this window has been a breath of fresh air! We've seen a shift in policy, in "MO" if you will. The new "plan" has clearly been a more targeted approach. No waiting until close to deadline day to see what opportunities might present themselves but instead, moving quickly to secure the most pressing needs at the start of the window. Now surely that's a transfer policy we can all get behind.

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

I hear what you're saying mate, but I think it's hard to argue that "Levy's high-risk negotiating style" is just an unfortunate accident when it fails to reap rewards. In particular, waiting until the end of the window to do the bulk of his business, doesn't happen by chance. It's a policy; it's a choice prescribed to (hopefully) reap maximum value. It's very much his MO. But "Levytime" is flawed mate. Increasingly, it's been a failed policy, it's been scattergun. And crucially it's left us short. That's why this window has been a breath of fresh air! We've seen a shift in policy, in "MO" if you will. The new "plan" has clearly been a more targeted approach. No waiting until close to deadline day to see what opportunities might present themselves but instead, moving quickly to secure the most pressing needs at the start of the window. Now surely that's a transfer policy we can all get behind.

No, we just disagree. I think with Levy we tend to see the tip of the iceberg and think it’s the whole thing. We do mistake outcome for intention.

It has failed in numerous ways. Not totally failed because we’re better off than we were, but not a successful as we all feel we could have been. But we disagree about the reasons it’s failed.

But we agree that we’re pleased things have changed in this window, though I don’t think they’ve changed very much, but external circumstances have put us in a relatively strong position that’s worked in our favour.

Still, whatever the reasons, we like this window and the rest is in the past!

Edit PS, He doesn’t just wait till the end of the window. He‘s failed to get deals done at every stage of the window. But we all know, or should know, that many deals of most kinds stretch out till whatever deadline exists. Again, it’s not strategy or MO, it’s just interpreted that way by those of us looking in from the outside.

 

[spursfan1991]

This thread normally gets bumped when Spurs lose but I think it deserves a bump now. I think Levy has done really well to turn things around. After the Poch sacking, it seemed like we blew our chance but this transfer window and recent performances has given hope and belief that we will rise again and possibly to even greater heights than last time.

 

[Bulletspur]

This thread normally gets bumped when Spurs lose but I think it deserves a bump now. I think Levy has done really well to turn things around. After the Poch sacking, it seemed like we blew our chance but this transfer window and recent performances has given hope and belief that we will rise again and possibly to even greater heights than last time.

100% this. We gave Man Utd 1-6 whopping by playing them off the park and it was not even our strongest current team! Add Bale and Lo Celso in and the fact that no one now can be comfortable or complacent, I see us doing a lot of damage this season.

 

[Yantino]

I agree. I’m sure like a lot of others, I thought that we’d shot our load and had our day pushing for titles etc and it was back to mid table obscurity for us. Because we really did look that bad and there was next to zero investment on the pitch.

ENIC’s motives and intentions were well and truly questioned and I only think it’s fair to say that they have backed their (very expensive) manager in this window.

if you didn’t know it already, then newsflash - Jose is the real deal. He is one of the best in the business and his success isn’t a fluke or a matter of chance. The guy knows what he is doing. So, if you’ve got him as your manager (especially after coveting him for such a long time) you back him.

Since project restart, with a couple of game aside (Bournemouth and Everton spring to mind) I think we have looked superb.COVID, VAR, an stupid handball law and the lack of fans at games has changed the landscape. The title this season is as open as it’s ever been imo. And I wouldn’t underestimate Jose’s ability to push us into that title race. Plus, I think we now have the squad depth to cope.

 

[buckley]

With the ENIC / Levy situation think because of his relative failure in the transfer market Levy did not believe in Poch enough to give him the backing he has now given Jose . It seems as tho the money is and was there but now was the right moment to invest with a man he has a proper belief in.

 

[Yantino]

With the ENIC / Levy situation think because of his relative failure in the transfer market Levy did not believe in Poch enough to give him the backing he has now given Jose . It seems as tho the money is and was there but now was the right moment to invest with a man he has a proper belief in.

I have a feeling it was more along the lines of Poch wanted world class players added to the squad. When we couldn't get them, Poch was offered alternatives but didn't want the alternatives so we signed no one.

 

[vegassd]

Was being the only club in the top 5 European Leagues to fail to buy a player in 2018 part of that clear "plan"? Or until yesterday, being the only club without a second recognised striker "the culmination of a 10 or 20 year plan"?

I think looking at "the plan" in such small segments is to miss what "the plan" is all about. It's a big picture thing, and like most big picture plans there are going to be small items that are sacrificed along the way in order to achieve that bigger picture.

I've never met Levy or have any connections to the club so my reading of the situation is as an outsider. But given what Levy and Poch have both said in public it looks to me like the plan has always been to get the right tools in place before trying to compete with the big boys. It has followed the lines of the old saying; don't bring a knife to a gun fight.

I know there are those extreme bsodl on here who seem to have an excuse for everything, but there are quite a few people who have also been promoting the idea of giving time for the owners to get those tools in place before we get angry about investment on the pitch. For my money we have now reached that moment, and whilst the covid situation is maybe a reason for caution with spending I would still be looking to judge the owners to that high standard from this moment on. Not for 2018. Not for a backup striker. Not for Nelson & Saha etc. etc.

I completely agree with your last statement mate. Great balanced squad, top manager. There's huge potential for us to win something significant with this group of players and coaching team. But we've been on the cusp of greatness before, only for our owners to fail to make that final push.

I think your statement about a balanced squad and top manager is spot on, but failing to make the final push is slightly wide of the mark.

Our great teams under Redknapp and Poch I would credit mostly to the managers and not the owners. They managed to get a level of performance out of those players that other manager's couldn't and vastly outperformed what the owners were asking of them. They got the team playing ahead of the club's overall position.

For the Redknapp team it meant we couldn't hold on to Modric and Bale. For Poch, he outperformed so hugely that our expectations as outsiders (fans/pundits/journalists) grew far beyond what the inside situation was capable of servicing in my opinion.

So the idea of "failing to make the final push" is one that is too simple. As a fan it's tempting to think that an extra player here or there is going to win a trophy but it's not that simple. Short term success in modern football is never guaranteed, so why risk the long term project? It's a tough thing to stomach as a football fan, but in real life I'm sure we've all had situations where saving money for a longer time results in a better car or house or whatever. I think it's the same situation with the club.

Personally I don't think that ENIC have changed their way of working. Levy has always said that the football bubble is unsustainable and that we would spend within our means. The ENIC MO as I see it is to increase revenue and then increase spending. As a club we have increased our revenue potential with the stadium and are now utilising that increased spending power. As fans we have suffered the austerity part of ENIC and now we get to witness (and to judge) the spending part.

After 20 years of slow build we've finally arrived at the gun fight. And the gun we're bringing is as big as anybody else's. Let's enjoy it.

PS. But of course, any argument about ENIC isn't going to follow reason. Those who have called for aggressive spending will claim this as a victory, those who have called for "revenue first" will claim this as a victory. ShadyDan will end up calling someone illiterate and NevilleB will end up calling Levy a prick. And so it ever was.

 

[carmeldevil]

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[Metalhead]

F*ck 'em. Even when we have had praise in the past, it's always been countered by the "how long can they keep hold of the player/manager" narrative so I'd rather we weren't mentioned and just get on with it.

 

[mill]

Excellent window, full credit to levy and the board, they’ve really given us a great chance of competing this season with a full squad with no obvious holes in it and all done before deadline day. Škriniar would’ve been brilliant if we could have got it done but none of us can have any complaints imo

Best window we’ve had I think

 

[Shadydan]

 

[Stamford]

Great transfer window. Only fair I give them credit as I'm very quick to criticise them

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

Unless some of the squad can still go out on loan to Championship clubs e.g CCV , Jack Clarke, the size of the wage bill for the current squad is going to make interesting reading when the figures are announced.

 

[dudu]

This has been an awesome window mate and it feels churlish to disagree with you, but I'd just like to contest a few points you make:
Was being the only club in the top 5 European Leagues to fail to buy a player in 2018 part of that clear "plan"? Or until yesterday, being the only club without a second recognised striker "the culmination of a 10 or 20 year plan"? Let's not pretent that ENIC have consistently strategised a clear, robust and effective policy for buying footballers over the years. There's been a litany of missed opportunities, of failure to secure primary targets, of failed cheap opportunist punts, of top players sold and never truly adequately replaced. As you yourself acknowledge, previous transfer window failures have necessitated the primacy of "plugging the gaps" in the squad. Surely, if as you suggest, that progressively improving the team season-in season out, has always been ENIC's "MO", then we wouldn't have needed a window like the current one in the first place!
I completely agree with your last statement mate. Great balanced squad, top manager. There's huge potential for us to win something significant with this group of players and coaching team. But we've been on the cusp of greatness before, only for our owners to fail to make that final push. Let's hope they don't allow that same complacency or negligence to creep in again. This is why the brilliant work Levy has done in this window has to be the standard default way he operates in the future. As you say, everything is in place now, so there's no reason for him not to. And correspondingly, there's less and less reason to defend him if he doesn't.

The fact is, everything has being put in place for ages, people just see transfers as the be-all and end-all of supporting the club, team and manager.

Where were you when Levy increased the wages of nearly every player in our squad over the course of a season to put us in a position where we could actually start bringing in players worth 200k a week? Does that not count?

Running a football club and making a club like our successful without an unlimited budget has taken a long time, careful planning and, yes mistakes along the way.

But we didn't get to this point by chance and many teams before us have tried and failed.