ENIC...

[Trotter]

You keep PROVING MY POINT while insisting you are doing the opposite! Only one of those clubs who won one-off trophies is even still in the Premiership.

We're not the same kind of club. The objective is not to win a one-off trophy and then fade away. The objective is to become a dominant club for decades. Then multiple trophies will come, as a side-effect of power and quality.

That's a task measured in decades. It's frustrating to me that I consistently defend a strategy that I may never live long enough to see bear fruit, while so many brash and impatient fans half my age want it NOW NOW NOW and refuse to see the strategy that has been developing by
stages since 2003.

Are you bloody drunk ?
I am not comparing us to them Sausage is, he asked the question I said they are not and have never been at the same level as us, and asked him to stop comparing

 

[davidmatzdorf]

Which is what I have said countless times in this thread.
Keep up, read and understand things before making stupid comments please mr disagree king

It' the opposite of what you have been saying. Read it again.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

Are you bloody drunk ?
I am not comparing us to them Sausage is, he asked the question I said they are not and have never been at the same level as us, and asked him to stop comparing

I give up. You're like a Trump supporter, you have your view of the world and no evidence will budge it.

 

[Trotter]

It' the opposite of what you have been saying. Read it again.

I really give up, no wonder so many people join other sites and quote you as the reason they leave.

sober up, read again in morning and I will graciously accept your apology, although I know it will never come.

 

[LeParisien]

Well we are a bit of a mid-table club at the moment, aren't we. And we won't be playing Champions League football next season due to the chronic lack of investment in the team over the last 5-6 years. Levy and ENIC got lucky with Pochettino. Don't mistake Pochettino's brilliance for great boardroom management. Do you know Pochettino's net spent over the last 5 years? And now that cow has dried up.

So, now that all the infrastructure, training ground, stadium etc has been built, it's time to see whether Levy and ENIC care about us being a winning club or only how the year-end accounts look.

I agree with your final paragraph (except the stupid but - you’re acting like financial responsibility is a sin !!).

First paragraph is very bad and you should take a deep breath before saying things like « « were a mid table club ». A mid table club that hasn’t finished mid table in over a decade. Jesus.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

I haven’t met many Wigan fans, but I always make sure when I do I ask if they’d trade their FA cup win to have stayed up and still be in the premier league. The answer is always no, they never expected to be premier league forever so for them to have won the FA cup is easily worth them having gone down.

You might say that Spurs is in a different place as a big club with an illustrious history, but then you have to ask what the history is built on and you’ll find that the answer is, primarily, cup wins.

I’ve love being in the Champions league, and I accept that it will attract a better calibre of player to the club, but by the same token I’m yet to have a single better memory in the Champions league than the league cup final win over Chelsea. I include Ajax away last season in that, as even though I was at the final, our first ever, we lost,

At this point the novelty of qualifying for the champions league, getting out of the group stage, not winning it, it’s wearing off a little. I’d of course prefer to be in it, but if right now you told me we could either clinch fourth but win nothing, or win the FA cup but finish 6th, I think I’d choose the cup. I’d be torn, it’s close, but I was indoctrinated into this cult by my father regaling me with the 7 cup wins, domestic and European, he witnessed first hand between 1970 when he arrived in England and 1991, when I was not yet six so can’t overly remember. Since then he’s only seen 2 more wins, the same two I’ve seen, and the rest has been near misses. Until I get to enjoy silverware every few years like he did in his first 21 years in England (average one every 3 years) I’ll feel like I was sold a lie.

@davidmatzdorf i see that you disagree, but I think you need to appreciate you and I are in very different circumstances. You’ve seen the two solitary league cup wins that I have, but on too you’ve also likely seen another two league cup wins, three FA cups, one UEFA cup and one cup winners cup. I can’t remember if you go as far back as the 60s side, but even if you haven't, you’ve been blessed to witness our most regularly celebrated sides and more so, the players on whom the romance of our club was built. Maybe that adds credence to your viewpoint as it means you have a point for comparison which I don’t, or maybe it means you’ve had the trophy itch long since scratched so aren’t able to empathise with those of us who haven’t.

 

[Fluteryid]

Levy and Enic have moved the club forward, no doubt. However the last few seasons they have either taken their eye off the ball with the stadium move or thought that Poch could keep working miracles on the pitch.

They got lucky with Poch who got the team competing with the likes of City, Arsenal, Chelsea, United and Liverpool and brought the club huge income in doing so.

Team investment has not been forthcoming though and we continue to invest in a level with mid to bottom end of the table teams. In fact we’ve been largely outspent by those below us despite huge tv money also coming in. This is where the fans frustration lies, we were so close and the best manager we’ve had in decades wasn’t backed and hung out to dry. It’s not acceptable

 

[riggi]

 

[Graysonti]

I really give up, no wonder so many people join other sites and quote you as the reason they leave.

sober up, read again in morning and I will graciously accept your apology, although I know it will never come.

What you talking about you wally.

People leave this site and join others because of DM - school ground stuff

IMO you just made that up off the top of your head as you was losing the argument !

FYI, DM is one of the best posters on this site (any site tbh) with over 13k well thought and articulate posts - my guess you have been booted off a certain site (cough cough) like us all and feeling delicate .

Dont have to agree with him but a bit of respect eh - we all support this club

 

[Donki]

I really give up, no wonder so many people join other sites and quote you as the reason they leave.

sober up, read again in morning and I will graciously accept your apology, although I know it will never come.

Don't be a wanker mate.

 

[coys200]

Other supporters are so confused by any ENIC out talk. Actually laughing at it.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

@davidmatzdorf i see that you disagree, but I think you need to appreciate you and I are in very different circumstances. You’ve seen the two solitary league cup wins that I have, but on too you’ve also likely seen another two league cup wins, three FA cups, one UEFA cup and one cup winners cup. I can’t remember if you go as far back as the 60s side, but even if you haven't, you’ve been blessed to witness our most regularly celebrated sides and more so, the players on whom the romance of our club was built. Maybe that adds credence to your viewpoint as it means you have a point for comparison which I don’t, or maybe it means you’ve had the trophy itch long since scratched so aren’t able to empathise with those of us who haven’t.

I started focusing on Spurs in the 80s and got serious about it in the 90s, so I didn't get to see the 60s/70s sides.

My first Spurs match was 5-3 against Ipswich in 1982 (I think) in the pouring rain. My then partner came from an Ipswich-supporting family (this was back when they were really good, under Bobby Robson) and we went to WHL and stood on the visiting terraces.

 

[NEVILLEB]

I wonder if even Alex Ferguson would have been successful at Spurs. His greatest strength was player recruitment and he wouldn’t have that control at our club.

Its not just about how much ENIC is willing to invest. It’s watching Managers get sacked because the wrong players have been bought in.

They’ve done a brilliant job with everything outside of the pitch but do they really want to win trophies. We’ll find out in the next few seasons.

 

[S0S]

I wonder if even Alex Ferguson would have been successful at Spurs. His greatest strength was player recruitment and he wouldn’t have that control at our club.

Its not just about how much ENIC is willing to invest. It’s watching Managers get sacked because the wrong players have been bought in.

They’ve done a brilliant job with everything outside of the pitch but do they really want to win trophies. We’ll find out in the next few seasons.

I would be interested to know to what extent respective managers were involved in various transfers

How often they got their first choices
How often they had realistic first choices, yet ended up with second or third choices
How often they had totally unrealistic first choices and stubbornly refused to compromise
How often they were just given some random player they didn't want, because it was seen as good business

I'd also like to know to what extent scouts found players based on what we needed to improve, and deals were unable to be made due to negotiations

And how often scouts just found use players that weren't up to standard


It's hard to really know where to point the figure without these facts. my gut instinct tells me that Levy is the common denominator for many of our failings (although he's the same denominator for our more successful deals and steady growth)

It really does frustrate my how each time we've appeared to be on the verge of something really big, we've failed to invest to capitalise and seem to have just rested on our laurels and rode what we have until the wheels fell off and the opportunity passed

Once again, we have to rebuild, taking steps backwards instead of pushing forward when well placed

The Levy/Enic in/out debate is largely a matter of perspective, if you're glass half full, you can point to the fact we've made a lot of strides forward in the last decade or so, but if you have desires for us to be a top top team (as most of us do) it's hard to look past the failings to cement and reinforce our position and end up missing out time and time again.

 

[dudu]

Still struggling to understand how it is Levy's fault we have not won as many cups as we should have - there are a few semi-finals that we should and had a good enough team to win but didn't.

Losing 2-0 to Portsmouth one of the worst of them but there have been plenty we had every chance of progressing to the Final had we been good enough on the day.

ENIC have had other priorities, sure. But they came through on the things they promised regarding the stadium and putting us where we belong financially. It has literally only just happened and already they have splashed some serious cash on players and a new manager. Will we be able to act like City and Chelsea? Unlikely. Will there be an increase in investment in the team over the next few years - well, there has been already so why would that not continue?

Another way to look at it is wages - 2016/2017 people were literally crying on here "we are gonna lose all our players" "Levy is a tight bastard, he won't pay our players what they are worth"

Who left because of it? Kyle Walker I think is the only one. Everyone else's wages have been upped and even though it has maybe had a detrimental effect due to players not leaving, money was invested in the team we actually had to keep the best players at the club in order to win stuff with them.

 

[spursfan77]

One day somebody will write a really good (optimistic) book on ENIC, THFC and the supporters views of them. It is a very complex issue. I don't think any owners divide a club's fans like they do. The people who don't like them, seem to really detest them. I mean I fucking hated Sugar, he rescued the club (mainly because he thought he could make a mint off of Sky and the newly formed Premier League) and then presided to almost destroy it. I'd go as far as to say we still havent recovered from his stewardship of the club and won't until we have been in the stadium a fair few years. When he came in we were Man U's financial equal don't forget. He sacked our marketing chief exec who went to Man Utd and made them a fortune off the pitch to go with their success on it. He made horrendous managerial appointment after appointment: Peter Shreeves, Doug Livermore, Ossie Ardiles, Gerry Francis, Christian Gross and George Graham. Francis the only one who you'd call a success even though Graham got us our only trophy under Sugar. Here are the finishes under him:

2000/2001	F.A. Carling Premiership	12th
1999/2000	F.A. Carling Premiership	10th/20
1998/1999	F.A. Carling Premiership	11th/20
1997/1998	F.A. Carling Premiership	14th/20
1996/1997	F.A. Carling Premiership	10th/20
1995/1996	F.A. Carling Premiership	8th/20
1994/1995	F.A. Carling Premiership	7th/22
1993/1994	F.A. Carling Premiership	15th/22
1992/1993	F.A. Carling Premier League	8th/22
1991/1992	Barclays First Division	15th/22
1990/1991	Barclays First Division	10th/20

Here are the finishes after ENIC took over and managers during that time:

18/19	Premier League	4	Mauricio Pochettino
17/18	Premier League	3	Mauricio Pochettino
16/17	Premier League	2	Mauricio Pochettino
15/16	Premier League	3	Mauricio Pochettino
14/15	Premier League	5	Mauricio Pochettino
13/14	Premier League	6	Tim Sherwood
12/13	Premier League	5	André Villas-Boas
11/12	Premier League	4	Harry Redknapp
10/11	Premier League	5	Harry Redknapp
09/10	Premier League	4	Harry Redknapp
08/09	Premier League	8	Harry Redknapp
07/08	Premier League	11	Juande Ramos
06/07	Premier League	5	Martin Jol
05/06	Premier League	5	Martin Jol
04/05	Premier League	9	Martin Jol
03/04	Premier League	14	David Pleat
02/03	Premier League	10	Glenn Hoddle
01/02	Premier League	9	Glenn Hoddle

These are just the facts arent they?

They need to be judged again in 3/4 seasons time I think, once we've been in the new stadium. During a season of turmoil isn't it. If they still arent investing and we havent won anything then that may well be the time for a change but at least give them a run at trying now they have built the stadium and tried to finally establish us as a Champions League club.

 

[NEVILLEB]

I would be interested to know to what extent respective managers were involved in various transfers

How often they got their first choices
How often they had realistic first choices, yet ended up with second or third choices
How often they had totally unrealistic first choices and stubbornly refused to compromise
How often they were just given some random player they didn't want, because it was seen as good business

I'd also like to know to what extent scouts found players based on what we needed to improve, and deals were unable to be made due to negotiations

And how often scouts just found use players that weren't up to standard


It's hard to really know where to point the figure without these facts. my gut instinct tells me that Levy is the common denominator for many of our failings (although he's the same denominator for our more successful deals and steady growth)

It really does frustrate my how each time we've appeared to be on the verge of something really big, we've failed to invest to capitalise and seem to have just rested on our laurels and rode what we have until the wheels fell off and the opportunity passed

Once again, we have to rebuild, taking steps backwards instead of pushing forward when well placed

The Levy/Enic in/out debate is largely a matter of perspective, if you're glass half full, you can point to the fact we've made a lot of strides forward in the last decade or so, but if you have desires for us to be a top top team (as most of us do) it's hard to look past the failings to cement and reinforce our position and end up missing out time and time again.

Yes it precisely because of this lack of transparency that we don’t know what’s going wrong.

Levy is the common denominator though. A lot of our Managers have complained about not getting the players they asked for. Not even the right positions they asked for.

 

[Lighty64]

He has done extremely well but the industry he operates in, you have to gamble in the transfer market otherwise you can’t succeed in the long run. The novelty of the stadium will wear off soon enough, the heat will turn up on him if he continues his ways and does not adapt for on the pitch success.

other than last season failing to strengthen might of meant not getting over the line v Chelsea (then Man C) and Liverpool it's not him picking the team that gets us to semi's or finals and we don't win them. last season was a lot down to the cause of our main 11 being burnt out, even if we got players in it doesn't guarantee we would have got over the line, in fact we might not even of got close to the line if other players had played in the matches.

the only time they have let us down big time was the season we were sitting nicely in 3rd, and they bought Nelson and Saha, but with them knowing Redknapp was going at the end of that season they most probably didn't want players the next manager didn't want

 

[hellava_tough]

If Levy wants to do things on the cheap that's fine, but put together the best scouting network in the work to facilitate it.

I don't know how much a scouting network costs, but you would imagine that it could be constructed for a fraction of the cost of a 'big money' transfer.

 

[Lighty64]

Major? A kid on loan who can’t get into the Benfica team?

he couldn't get in because he fell out with the coach