Gary Neville on Spurs & Poch on MNF

[Shadydan]

Can't believe that people have spectacularly missed the point he was making.

 

[dynamoSpurs]

Because despite the effort, they didn't have the quality in their squads. Outrunning your opponent is always a positive, especially if it's on a consistent basis.

Running more doesn't mean "outrunning" mate.

And never have I seen "running" attributed to success. Unless you're Usain Bolt.

 

[$hoguN]

Gary Neville is right in many ways but also wrong in many others. The way we have conducted our business For quite some time has been admirable and not a shambles as he made out. Yes the Bale replacements didn't all work out but 3 of them did to differing degrees and they now make up a key part of our attack. His stating that the guys we sold you couldn't get rid of fast enough is actually also naive as neglects the fact they were purchased to play in a different play style which was not about the exertion of pressure. I'm not saying that was the right way for us to play but no-one could have really predicted just how small an impact Soldado and Paulinho would make.

His points about pressure and working harder than the other team are correct but I totally refute his statements that we lack quality, as I would confidently argue in terms of attacking strength there isn't too much between us and Utd, yet they have spent 4 times as much on their front four.

This season will be about the small margins and the last couple of performances in particular have shown that we now look like a team with a game plan. Let's wait and see where that takes us

 

[thelak]

G Nev clearly a v good pundit but he does a hatchet job on the players that were in the squad when Poch took over. Adebayor clearly a terrible character and Paulinho no heart (and who really knows what went on with Lennon but he did care about the club I always thought in his own rudeboyish ways). And yes we have had to rebuild and Poch clearly a big part of that but he is not giving much credit explicitly at least to the maturing of the academy - now clearly if we had kept AVB we probably would never have played any of them - but Poch has joined at a time when there are tottenham bred academy players coming through the ranks that will clearly have the clubs in their heart more so than a random foreign player so have to give some credit to the club on a LT basis vs. his implication that this has been a 12 month turnaround orchestrated by Poch

 

[millsey]

The main thing I got from Neville was that other people could see the deadwood and trouble makers in our squad. We now have no billy big balls, bad eggs and we have the youngest team in the league who work there ass off. That could only be good. He says we haven't the quality yet for top 4 and he is prob right but this is just the start

 

[tommo84]

And there's the rub - you cannot outrun every opponent twice a week for a whole season.
And why would you try to, unless you were always behind in games, like the teams at the bottom.

Yes you can, as Neville's stats showed that Burnley did it in every game last season. We were 2nd having done it in 33 of 38 games (it was EPL only).

And the reason you would try to is to defend from the front, hurrying the opposition and winning the ball back high up the pitch. Just because you are winning doesn't mean you should camp inside your own half and wait for the opposition to come to you.

 

[CowInAComa]

FYI
He is using the statistics on running to show how the mentality of Spurs has changed and that his philosophy is being implemented. He isnt saying running is the best statistic to judge how good a team is.

 

[Sir Henry]

He's not saying if you run about all day you'll win the league. He's telling us that the players work harder, have a better work ethic and this forms the basic ingredients needed to build upon. I'm excited by this at Spurs. Slow and steady as she goes.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

FYI
He is using the statistics on running to show how the mentality of Spurs has changed and that his philosophy is being implemented. He isnt saying running is the best statistic to judge how good a team is.

At least someone was paying attention

 

[shelfmonkey]

Whilst I agree with Nevilles analysis.

Running, is one of the most useless and overused stats in English football. If Poch's Southampton ran the most, why didnt they win the league? Because running is not as important as people like to think.

It's has everything to do with the quality of the players doing the running!! Quality + hard work and endeavour = success, or at least competing for success!

 

[Davo99]

Running more doesn't mean "outrunning" mate.

And never have I seen "running" attributed to success. Unless you're Usain Bolt.

Great post man - are you a "wizard"?

 

[shelfmonkey]

I think Neville is basically saying 'this is how we did it at Man Ure under Fergie'!

 

[Dharmabum]

He sure have most of what he says right but his view on Balidini shows that he haven't gotten as much insider knowledge as he, and others, may think. Of the players Spurs sold only Ade was a really bad apple; Lennon was starting to go bad and I think Paulinho's lack of heart - not quality - maybe have affected the dressing room as well. So 3 out 17-18 from the 1st team squad who were sold is not that bad (although Ade may count as 10 bad apples).
Again, Baldini was NOT single-handedly responsible for buying all those players brought in for the Bale money. And Soldado has shown in La Liga that he still is a top-class player....who simply wasn't made for the EPL.

 

[guiltyparty]

FYI
He is using the statistics on running to show how the mentality of Spurs has changed and that his philosophy is being implemented. He isnt saying running is the best statistic to judge how good a team is.

He actually uses it as an example to suggest the culture was bad before and now it's not. I would say let's wait and see, shall we, as the 'culture' before wasn't doing too badly for us despite all the media negativity around it. We're sat in the same position as we finished in 2013/14, one position behind Everton again, at present so I'm not exactly getting carried away just yet.

I've heard similar things said about Sherwood. Also everyone was singing from AVB's hymn sheet when we beat United, Jan waltzing through their midfield just as he did against City this weekend. I know we can be very good on our day. We have been for years, it's inconsistency that's plagued us. And that's hard when you're trying to make a generalisation based on various statistics that don't actually all add up. And that is what he's paid to do.

You are reading into it in the way you should, and I completely agree re: the philosophy, but these patronising comments from some saying "people have missed the point". No, haven't missed the point at all, just questioning it. Just because someone says something nice about Spurs, doesn't mean you should swallow it down because it makes a nice change. And I take issue with several things he says, although I agree with the overall piece and tone.

It's all the lies, damn lies and statistics stuff - what's with that 2013/14 team list? Is that from a particular game? Or just a made up 11? It doesn't say, but it's not the City game from 2013/14, as Lamela played, so why's he suggesting him as one of the overhaul? He played when we lost 6-0. It isn't the average team of the season, as Vertonghen played at left back, with Kaboul centre back, most games. The way he lists Davies instead of Rose, when Rose is still very much part of the squad and often in the team, as is Dembele, and Kane played in 2013/14 too, he's not some new find. How often did Soldado and Adebayor ever play together? It's all a bit 'Garth Crooks' team of the week' and gives off a very wrong impression.

"Only four players from 2013/14 were still playing in the win over Manchester City". Again, this is very evocative language but it doesn't add up. Mainly, it's a squad game nowadays, and y'know, injuries. How many teams from two seasons ago wouldn't be completely changed for this season? Comparing the teams they fielded against us in 2013/14 against this weekend's...

Chelsea's team 2013/14: Cech, Luiz, Terry, Ivanovic, Cole, Oscar, Ramires, Mikel, Hazard, Lampard, Torres

Well, that's only three players who remain (and by Neville's reckoning, you don't count Ramires or Terry, as they didn't start).

Man Utd's team 2013/14: De Gea, Vidic, Smalling, Evra, Evans, Rooney, Valencia, Januzaj, Carrick, Cleverley, Wellbeck

So that's four players left, same as us.

Man City's team 2013/14: Pantilimon, Zabaleta, Clichy, Demichelis, Nastasic, Toure, Fernandinho, Negredo, Navas, Nasri

So three (again, Navas and Nasri don't count as they were on the bench)

Arsenal's 2013/14 team: Szczesny, Gibbs, Koscielny, Mertesacker, Rosicky, Sagna, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Arteta, Podolski, Cazorla, Giroud

So that's two left over, and they've not changed their manager at all.

Everton's 2013/14 team: Howard, Coleman, Baines, Jagielka, Distin, Mirallas, McCarthy, Naismith, Osman, Pienaar

Four, the same us again.

So yeah, the two 'revitalised' teams, Utd and Spurs, have the two most consistent teams of the top six alongside Everton. So much for the overhaul. So yeah, it doesn't really mean anything at all.

Just a month ago, the media was painting LVG to be an utter nut who was sabotaging Utd and that Martial was the most silly buy ever. Now he's suddenly a god. Likewise, Poch's brave new world will be dismissed the minute we get tonked by someone. As ever, it's reading between the lines and finding the truth somewhere in-between.

 

[CowInAComa]

He actually uses it as an example to suggest the culture was bad before and now it's not. I would say let's wait and see, shall we, as the 'culture' before wasn't doing too badly for us despite all the media negativity around it. We're sat in the same position as we finished in 2013/14, one position behind Everton again, at present so I'm not exactly getting carried away just yet.

I've heard similar things said about Sherwood. Also everyone was singing from AVB's hymn sheet when we beat United, Jan waltzing through their midfield just as he did against City this weekend. I know we can be very good on our day. We have been for years, it's inconsistency that's plagued us. And that's hard when you're trying to make a generalisation based on various statistics that don't actually all add up. And that is what he's paid to do.

You are reading into it in the way you should, and I completely agree re: the philosophy, but these patronising comments from some saying "people have missed the point". No, haven't missed the point at all, just questioning it. Just because someone says something nice about Spurs, doesn't mean you should swallow it down because it makes a nice change. And I take issue with several things he says, although I agree with the overall piece and tone.

It's all the lies, damn lies and statistics stuff - what's with that 2013/14 team list? Is that from a particular game? Or just a made up 11? It doesn't say, but it's not the City game from 2013/14, as Lamela played, so why's he suggesting him as one of the overhaul? He played when we lost 6-0. It isn't the average team of the season, as Vertonghen played at left back, with Kaboul centre back, most games. The way he lists Davies instead of Rose, when Rose is still very much part of the squad and often in the team, as is Dembele, and Kane played in 2013/14 too, he's not some new find. How often did Soldado and Adebayor ever play together? It's all a bit 'Garth Crooks' team of the week' and gives off a very wrong impression.

"Only four players from 2013/14 were still playing in the win over Manchester City". Again, this is very evocative language but it doesn't add up. Mainly, it's a squad game nowadays, and y'know, injuries. How many teams from two seasons ago wouldn't be completely changed for this season? Comparing the teams they fielded against us in 2013/14 against this weekend's...

Chelsea's team 2013/14: Cech, Luiz, Terry, Ivanovic, Cole, Oscar, Ramires, Mikel, Hazard, Lampard, Torres

Well, that's only two players who remain (and by Neville's reckoning, you don't count Ramires or Terry, as they didn't start).

Man Utd's team 2013/14: De Gea, Vidic, Smalling, Evra, Evans, Rooney, Valencia, Januzaj, Carrick, Cleverley, Wellbeck

So that's four players left, same as us.

Man City's team 2013/14: Pantilimon, Zabaleta, Clichy, Demichelis, Nastasic, Toure, Fernandinho, Negredo, Navas, Nasri

So three (again, Navas and Nasri don't count as they were on the bench)

Arsenal's 2013/14 team: Szczesny, Gibbs, Koscielny, Mertesacker, Rosicky, Sagna, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Arteta, Podolski, Cazorla, Giroud

So that's two left over, and they've not changed their manager at all.

Everton's 2013/14 team: Howard, Coleman, Baines, Jagielka, Distin, Mirallas, McCarthy, Naismith, Osman, Pienaar

Four, the same us again.

So yeah, the two 'revitalised' teams, Utd and Spurs, have the two most consistent teams of the top six alongside Everton. So much for the overhaul. So yeah, it doesn't really mean anything at all.

Just a month ago, the media was painting LVG to be an utter nut who was sabotaging Utd and that Martial was the most silly buy ever. Now he's suddenly a god. Likewise, Poch's brave new world will be dismissed the minute we get tonked by someone. As ever, it's reading between the lines and finding the truth somewhere in-between.

You know I'm not actually Gary neville?

Also. chin up, things might turn out nice.

 

[CowInAComa]

If anyone is too angered by the optimistic nature of Neville's analysis.
He also said we aren't very good and won't finish top 4.

Phew.

 

[guiltyparty]

If anyone is too angered by the optimistic nature of Neville's analysis.
He also said we aren't very good and won't finish top 4.

Phew.

I'm not angered at him at all. I thought it was a refreshing piece with some holes. I get kind of annoyed when people stick so massively to their agendas that they choose to overlook the holes but then point them out when it suits. But that's life. Just amazes me how people don't question things at all sometimes

 

[CowInAComa]

I'm not angered at him at all. I thought it was a refreshing piece with some holes. I get kind of annoyed when people stick so massively to their agendas that they choose to overlook the holes but then point them out when it suits. But that's life. Just amazes me how people don't question things at all sometimes

Question what? It's just a pundits opinion. Why is it upsetting to you that people enjoyed Spurs receiving some positive commentary for a change.

 

[guiltyparty]

Question what? It's just a pundits opinion. Why is it upsetting to you that people enjoyed Spurs receiving some positive commentary for a change.

It's not. It irks me that people take everything as it's said to them without question just because it's positive, but I could live with that. And it irks me that pointing that out is ridiculed. But y'know, whatever.

 

[Lenten]

Our problem in the past has been that we've consistently sold our best players from the last season, carrick, berbatov, modric, bale and then rebuilt to varying degrees. One thing about the age difference is that younger players are easier to keep hold of, see Kane.