@Bobby__Lucky
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Was. Talking about modric
Harry Winks - Leicester City
- Thread starter yido_number1
- Start date
Was. Talking about modric
@Bobby__Lucky
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Here's an interesting comparison. All of our players thought Dembele was our best player. Out PPG with and without Dembele would easily suggest he was our most important player.
Hmmmm how many goals and assists did dembele give our team?
Hope you all enjoy them apples.
Hmmmm how many goals and assists did dembele give our team?
Hope you all enjoy them apples.
dtxspurs
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You're vastly underselling Lampard and Gerrard there, they were both incredible passers.
Jorginho, one every 13 games and everyone thinks he's terrible offensively (he's not). I've posted a video of all the chances he created for Chelsea last year that weren't converted. And yeah, I don't really consider Jorginho a play maker, nor Carrick (one every 7 games for United).
Winks keeps the ball moving, simply, mostly efficiently, but he's just not a playmaker. Thats my point here.
The more "plays" you create the more likely you are they convert into goals and assists, thats not rocket science.
dtxspurs
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Oh, got it. 308 games, 18 goals, 48 assists, every 4.66 games. At Spurs it was every 3.6 games.
Shadydan
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Lampard and Gerrard were never playmakers they're goalscoring midfielders, in that era the closest comparison was Paul Scholes. It's not about passing the ball mate, David Beckham was an excellant passer of the ball it doesn't make him a playmaker, it's about how these players control the game, look at the way he plays, always looking for the ball, constantly recycling possession, trying to create attacking angles for his team..again it comes down to playing styles. He may not be as good as the aforementioned but that doesn't take away from his playing style .
Can't you see this is your entire arbitrary criteria which relies on your definition, if Winks gets 2 assists tomorrow which will no doubt increase his output does that mean he suddenly becomes a playmaker and yes by the way Jorginho is and Carrick absolutely was a playmaker, you would have realised that when we let him go to Utd and couldn't create shit after that.
Have a read of these: https://totalfootballanalysis.com/p...ottenham-hotspur-tactical-analysis-statistics
Scout Report: Harry Winks | Tottenham's midfield maestro in the making • Outside of the Boot
Ninad Barbadikar provides a detailed scout report about Harry Winks, Tottenham's midfield maestro in the making
outsideoftheboot.com
dtxspurs
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All three of those guys were top 8 premier league assisters of all time.. they were absolutely play makers in an assisting capacity. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Scholes had over twice as many goals as he had assists for United, he not a goal scoring midfielder then too?Lampard and Gerrard were never playmakers they're goalscoring midfielders, in that era the closest comparison was Paul Scholes. It's not about passing the ball mate, David Beckham was an excellant passer of the ball it doesn't make him a playmaker, it's about how these players control the game, look at the way he plays, always looking for the ball, constantly recycling possession, trying to create attacking angles for his team..again it comes down to playing styles. He may not be as good as the aforementioned but that doesn't take away from his playing style .
Can't you see this is your entire arbitrary criteria which relies on your definition, if Winks gets 2 assists tomorrow which will no doubt increase his output does that mean he suddenly becomes a playmaker and yes by the way Jorginho is and Carrick absolutely was a playmaker, you would have realised that when we let him go to Utd and couldn't create shit after that.
Have a read of these: https://totalfootballanalysis.com/p...ottenham-hotspur-tactical-analysis-statistics
Scout Report: Harry Winks | Tottenham's midfield maestro in the making • Outside of the Boot
Ninad Barbadikar provides a detailed scout report about Harry Winks, Tottenham's midfield maestro in the making
Yes... if Winks starts assisting more it will increase my belief in his ability to make plays?
I don't need to read an article to tell me something when I watch every game and can see he doesn't create goal scoring opportunities. I can actually only recall even one hockey-assist which was vs. Palace.
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slartibartfast
Grunge baby forever
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For what its worth I dont think Gerrard or Lampard were playmakers and Winks certainly isnt imo. 90% of his passes are sideway or backwards. Fkin water carrier maybe but not a playmaker.
Just my onions.
Just my onions.
Shadydan
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It's not about assists, it's not about creating goalscoring opportunities it's about playing style - things I mentioned like ball retention and ball recycling etc...I don't know why you're counting assists for...aren't assists entirely dependant on the player finishing the chance as well?
Listen to your yourself, if Winks starts assisting more it will increase your belief lol this is arbituary criteria by your very own own standards in which you judge players, not the industry standard which is what posted already, if you choose to ignore it then that's up to you.
Actually Scholes started off as a goal scoring midfidler for Utd but transitioned into a playmaker, he's historically one of if not the best playmaker to play on this league.
The article actually would help you to understand what a playmaker does and how Winks fits into that role because it seems to me that you have a warped definition of what a playmaker is. That fact that you think Gerrard and Lampard were playmaker kinda tells me that.
Lastly how can you call Winks a holding midfielder when he cannot hold a candle, he's been getting criticised for being defensively suspect, he doesn't have your typical defensive nous to be a holding mid.
dtxspurs
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Since when does ball retention and ball recycling equate to making plays. I legit feel like I'm speaking to a wall.
Are you trying to say Winks doesn't have assists because of the players ahead of him? LofuckingL. Yes if Winks starts assisting more I will think he has more of an ability to make plays for us in an offensive capability, not sure whats so hard to understand about that.
I consider him a holding midfielder because I don't really know what else to consider him. I also consider him to be a squad player for us. He shouldn't start because he can't influence a game offensively or defensively. He's only useful in the middle third of the field, but you know what other players we have can do the exact same things he can, but also add on defense or offense.
Yeah, two of the top 6 premier league assisters of all time weren't playmakers, but fucking Winks is... Listen to yourself.
His rate was a goal or assist in every 10 games, as opposed to WInks one in 28 (and his tackles and interception stats were significantly higher)
Those apples tasted good.
Just keep coming up with players to compare, there literally is not one at a top club in Europe against whose stats Winks compare favourably against.
And on your other piece of wisdom (sic) you said, "In addition many say he's not defensive he's not attacking. Isn't that what you call an all round midfielder". No an all round midfielder is good or at least competent at both defending and attacking, the complete opposite of Winks.
This argument seems pointless as its quite clear you both have different definitions for the word 'playmaker' and so does the internet.
From what I've read one person thinks 'play making' is literally making plays. The most effective 'play' in football is a goal, the playmaker made the play, therefore playmaker=effective assister.
It seems the other argument is that a 'playmaker' dictates play and, as put by the ever trusted Wikipedia, 'controls the flow of the teams play'. Therefore playmaker= probably the player with the most touches.',
To me, Winks is not a playmaker by definition 1, but is by definition 2 (no comment on his quality but he does conduct play).
Both of you are right by your own definiton.
From what I've read one person thinks 'play making' is literally making plays. The most effective 'play' in football is a goal, the playmaker made the play, therefore playmaker=effective assister.
It seems the other argument is that a 'playmaker' dictates play and, as put by the ever trusted Wikipedia, 'controls the flow of the teams play'. Therefore playmaker= probably the player with the most touches.',
To me, Winks is not a playmaker by definition 1, but is by definition 2 (no comment on his quality but he does conduct play).
Both of you are right by your own definiton.
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longtimespur
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There's some serious slap going down on here. Can't see what people see that deserves this.
Shadydan
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allpaths
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Might just be me, ball rentention and recycling awfully sound like a run of the mill water carrier type, more than a more noused playmaking type. Winks passing need to be made with the intention to hurt the opposition, rather than just keeping possession for possession sake.
dtxspurs
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You do know in your precious Wikipedia page it features Gerrard...
allpaths
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DTX dont worry mate Dan's a prideful bugger who has a hard time admitting he's wrong but he'll get over it.
BringBack_leGin
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On the playmaker issue, in my opinion Winks is not one, as I grew up learning that a playmaker was someone who created goal scoring opportunities. Hoddle, Waddle, Gascoigne, Ginola, Van Der Vaart, Micky Hazard, Eriksen, all very different players to each other, all creative. Nico Kranjcar was a playmaker. Winks, not for me. He’s a bit of an all rounder, better than the likes of Pedro Mendes, Michael Brown and Jamie Redknapp. Debatable if you’d take him or Jenas, as Jenas was at least a half decent goalscorer.
This doesn’t mean there isn’t a place for him, he’s a good player when used properly, and he’s still young and has plenty of improvement left on him, but he doesn’t have the vision to be called what I think of as a playmaker. I accept this is highly subjective and other people don’t see a playmaker as necessarily a creative player, but I do. I’d even class Huddlestone as more of a playmaker than Harry.
This doesn’t mean there isn’t a place for him, he’s a good player when used properly, and he’s still young and has plenty of improvement left on him, but he doesn’t have the vision to be called what I think of as a playmaker. I accept this is highly subjective and other people don’t see a playmaker as necessarily a creative player, but I do. I’d even class Huddlestone as more of a playmaker than Harry.
D
Deleted member 29446
I think Poch actually picked the 4th option for Winks’ love letter.
