Harry Winks - Leicester City

[Westmorlandspur]

People on here used to say stuff like: "If Winks were Spanish or if his name was Winksinho, he'd be looked upon as a 100m talent". The following statement is probably more true: If Winks wasn't an academy player and if he played for say Bournemouth, all of us would be utterly underwhelmed if he were our new CM signing.

He's a good squad player and it's important to have players that have come through the academy and that knows and loves the club. But in the end football, as any sport, is based on results and performance, and looking at the options we have at CM in Ndombele, Lo Celso and Sissoko, they all surpass him by quite some margin at the moment.

Sissoko!!! Big difference between Harry and Sissoko is that if you pass to Harry he will control it. Pass to Moussa and it’s one of three
1. He may control it
2. It will bounce off him to an opponent
3. It will bounce off him into touch.
He has his uses but he is nowhere near Winks as a midfield player.

 

[kmk]

I not sure where you categorise Winks. He's not a destroyer, nor a creator or a dribbler and not a goal threat.

He’s in the same category as Michael Carrick and Didier Deschamps who were both underrated.

Eric Cantona called Deschamps a water carrier.

 

[Havre]

That's fair - it's definitely an oversimplification - but I certainly think it was a contributing factor. We went from having Dembele - a genuine world class talent - in midfield, who had a ridiculous combination of strength, close control and ball retention, to Winks, who, while tidy, has nowhere near the physical presence or mercurial genius of The Moose. That's not Winks' fault of course, but I think we need a better, more well rounded, first team option than him if we want to win anything.

Also, I presume the majority of those 17 starts were in the 2nd half of the season when we were dogshit?

One of these correlation, but not necessarily any causation.

I will not argue that Winks have been consistently good for us, but neither do I believe he is a good starting point trying to explain why Alli, Eriksen, Dier etc. have at times haven't been performing close to what they used to. If anything I believe they are at fault for Winks not being better. We had a solid team that should have been able to accommodate young developing players in a better way that it has had since more or less 2017.

The only player that has really been able to slot in since then is Son. And he is not inexperienced the same way Winks and for example Sanchez is.

Do we got time to wait for Winks? Not sure. DMs usually peak fairly late - and they certainly need more than 8-10 starts every season to develop their game. Dier is an anomaly there.

Difficult one for Mourinho. There is not enough games and time to wait for both Winks and Dier. I still both got potential.

 

[mill]

He’s meant to keep the ball moving. When he cant do that and cant make a pass, you have to pull him off because he will make huge errors that might lead to goals. He’s a squad player and not much more. He just isnt up to it at this level.

Plays better with an empty sack?

 

[Timberwolf]

One of these correlation, but not necessarily any causation.

I will not argue that Winks have been consistently good for us, but neither do I believe he is a good starting point trying to explain why Alli, Eriksen, Dier etc. have at times haven't been performing close to what they used to. If anything I believe they are at fault for Winks not being better. We had a solid team that should have been able to accommodate young developing players in a better way that it has had since more or less 2017.

The only player that has really been able to slot in since then is Son. And he is not inexperienced the same way Winks and for example Sanchez is.

Do we got time to wait for Winks? Not sure. DMs usually peak fairly late - and they certainly need more than 8-10 starts every season to develop their game. Dier is an anomaly there.

Difficult one for Mourinho. There is not enough games and time to wait for both Winks and Dier. I still both got potential.

Well I don't think anyone would argue that there's a single defining reason for our downturn in form but rather a multitude of different elements: fatigue for Poch's methods, Poch's tactical intransigence, Levy's failure to refresh the squad, injuries, etc etc.

However, having watched Winks week after week, it's quite clear that he's not brilliant at the defensive side of the game and it's hardly outlandish to suggest that this has had some impact on our recent defensive frailty. Just one of many factors, but a factor nonetheless. The Olympiakos player waltzed past him without even trying for their first goal and he was also at fault for their second. That's not good enough, and I think we could do better, especially given our lack of a solid defensive partner to play alongside him.

I'm not saying he doesn't have a purpose or that shouldn't be an important member of the squad, but rather it's an area we could definitely improve on and he shouldn't be a guaranteed member of our first 11.

 

[Havre]

Well I don't think anyone would argue that there's a single defining reason for our downturn in form but rather a multitude of different elements: fatigue for Poch's methods, Poch's tactical intransigence, Levy's failure to refresh the squad, injuries, etc etc.

However, having watched Winks week after week, it's quite clear that he's not brilliant at the defensive side of the game and it's hardly outlandish to suggest that this has had some impact on our recent defensive frailty. Just one of many factors, but a factor nonetheless. The Olympiakos player waltzed past him without even trying for their first goal and he was also at fault for their second. That's not good enough, and I think we could do better, especially given our lack of a solid defensive partner to play alongside him.

I'm not saying he doesn't have a purpose or that shouldn't be an important member of the squad, but rather it's an area we could definitely improve on and he shouldn't be a guaranteed member of our first 11.

He tried for the first goal, but boy did he misread that situation. And I agree with you he does that too often defensively.

I just think generally speaking he has been put in a fairly unfair situation. He has no real experience and has never been consistently playing senior football. He has been asked to be creative because quite frankly he has been "partnered up" with mainly very poor passers of the ball in Sissoko, Dier and Wanyama earlier. Dier isn't a bad passer on good days, but those good days are few and far between these days. If Winks was a world class talent he would have managed, but I would argue most inexperienced players would struggle there. Even more so with Eriksen not performing. Earlier players like Dier and Wanyama could take the easy way out passing the ball to Eriksen. Similarly Winks has never had a proper DM next to him to cover and show him how to screen the CDs.

This is opposite to what happened with Dier and Wanyama earlier. They had the benefit of playing next to at the time a brilliant Dembele. I guess we all remember how poor Dier and Wanyama often were together compared to how solid they looked next to Dembele. Partly because of how good Dembele was at the time, but also because they then could play a role that fitted them better. Winks has never had the opportunity to play next to a very good CM week after week. And we Spursfans have kind of looked at him like jesus saving us from all these average CMs (Sissoko had a good spell of course).

Is Winks good enough to carry the current midfield? I agree with you - clearly not, but I think very few players in his age group would. Well. Very few players in general would. Could he become that player? I still think he has a shot, but that he needs to play regularly for more than one fall - which almost sums up his career so far.

 

[For the love of Spurs]

The issue we have as a team is that we don’t have a dynamic holding player. Winks is a great passer and he moves well between the lines but it’s obvious he is not defensively solid, Ndombele the same and Sissoko doesn’t have the technical to do that role. Bit square peg, round hole for me with our midfield, we need Dier and Wanyama to step up properly and do that role the way they used to or buy a defensive midfielder who will. Winks can do a job but he ain’t a defensive midfielder.

 

[double0]

I really feel people are missing the obvious our CB especially and full backs generally are poor. No matter what MF or DM is playing in front of Toby Rose Aurier Vertonghen will struggle

 

[For the love of Spurs]

I really feel people are missing the obvious our CB especially and full backs generally are poor. No matter what MF or DM is playing in front of Toby Rose Aurier Vertonghen will struggle

Put Fabinho in front of our defence and it would improve it. We do need a new CB and a new LB. let’s see what January brings.

 

[double0]

Put Fabinho in front of our defence and it would improve it. We do need a new CB and a new LB. let’s see what January brings.

Put Vigil Van Dijk there instead and it'll be even better

 

[Japhet]

I not sure where you categorise Winks. He's not a destroyer, nor a creator or a dribbler and not a goal threat.

You could say exactly the same about Xavi. The difference is Xavi had Iniesta next to him and Busquets holding the fort. Put Xavi in a pivot with Eric Dier on current form and see what happens. IMO, Winks needs to play in a 3 man midfield.

 

[Matthew]

is winks our new jenas? gets dug out every game, he didnt set the world alight last night, but some of the comments on the match thread were a joke!

 

[double0]

You could say exactly the same about Xavi. The difference is Xavi had Iniesta next to him and Busquets holding the fort. Put Xavi in a pivot with Eric Dier on current form and see what happens. IMO, Winks needs to play in a 3 man midfield.

Although if partnered correctly he can still play in a pivot. I'd like to see more of Ndombele alongside Winks

 

[VancouverSpur]

Put Vigil Van Dijk there instead and it'll be even better

Put Pele up front and that will help as well.

 

[Primativ]

Although if partnered correctly he can still play in a pivot. I'd like to see more of Ndombele alongside Winks

I wouldn’t. Absolutely zero defensive protection. When will some of you stop trying to shoehorn winks into CM and just accept he’s not at the level we need? No offence or anything

 

[McFlash]

It might just be me but I've thought, in the past couple of games, he's tried to be a lot more forward thinking in his passing.
Often trying to thread balls forward when in the past, he would have gone sideways or backwards.
If he keeps that up, and has the bravery to improve that aspect of his game, then he's a very handy player to have in the squad.
Also, while I agree that the defensive side of his positioning needs to improve, he does always seem to put in at least a couple of important tackles every game.

 

[Cochise]

I thought he had a decent enough game, but his first half was very poor. There were quite a few occasions where he tried to do too much and got picked off by one or two opposing players. The backpass that almost put them through on goal was also a very dangerous moment where his insistence on trying to play the ball undermined him.

 

[jonnyp]

I thought he had a decent enough game, but his first half was very poor. There were quite a few occasions where he tried to do too much and got picked off by one or two opposing players. The backpass that almost put them through on goal was also a very dangerous moment where his insistence on trying to play the ball undermined him.

He has recently started to run with the ball too long when there's a much earlier pass to a team mate in a good position who's in space and under no immediate pressure. Also started turning straight into opposing players and losing the ball. He should just go back to keeping it simple.

 

[GutBucket]

Wouldn't mind GLC or even Skipp getting his minutes and seeing how they do there. He had some great games in CL vs Real Madrid and City and he can be good for us but not in current form.

 

[dtxspurs]

You could say exactly the same about Xavi. The difference is Xavi had Iniesta next to him and Busquets holding the fort. Put Xavi in a pivot with Eric Dier on current form and see what happens. IMO, Winks needs to play in a 3 man midfield.

The same Xavi who had 184 assists for Barca? Including seasons of 22 & 16 assists in La Liga alone? Surely not the guys that averaged a goal or an assist every 2.85 games.