Is football getting a bit rubbish now?

[OmarsComing]

I only mentioned Hatton for the benefit of English people who believed he was a true great in the boxing world.

Seriously,you think Mayweather is better than Leonard?:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Boxrec's all time P4P and all time welterweight records have Mayweather rated higher than Leonard.

Next you'll be saying that Henry Cooper was better than Lennox Lewis...

 

[ultimateloner]

How anyone can fail to appreciate the progress of English football just baffles me.

Better/strong/world-famous players
Fast/more competitive matches
More recognized league - in terms of money, entertainment, reputation.
Reputation overseas.

Its an example of the success of capitalism and deserves to be studied academically.

 

[Viva la Tottenham]

How anyone can fail to appreciate the progress of English football just baffles me.

Better/strong/world-famous players
Fast/more competitive matches
More recognized league - in terms of money, entertainment, reputation.
Reputation overseas.

Its an example of the success of capitalism and deserves to be studied academically.

:rofl: priceless

the English national team has shown some great progress over the past 2 decades lol

ffs do you work for sky

 

[ultimateloner]

:rofl: priceless

the English national team has shown some great progress over the past 2 decades lol

ffs do you work for sky

By english football i mean the league, not the national team.

 

[Viva la Tottenham]

you could also say English football is a perfect example of everything that's wrong with football nowadays

full of hyped up over-rated money hungry twats who don't give a feck about anyone but themselves

 

[ultimateloner]

you could also say English football is a perfect example of everything that's wrong with football nowadays

full of hyped up over-rated money hungry twats who don't give a feck about anyone but themselves

Who isn't money-hungry? the question is whether they deserve it.

Besides what's the benefit of being anti-money? loyalty? that doesn't make football any more entertaining.

 

[Jay The Yid]

Omar,

I have to say I disagree with everything you say.

By your reckoning it seems to me that you belive that the likes of Maradona, Cruyff, Gullit, Van Basten, Mattheas, Baresi, Maldini, Roberto Baggio wouldnt cut the mustard today? It my belief that these players that I have randomly picked off the top of my head (and Im sure there are lots more!) would all be worth £50m+ in todays market.

I agree with the comments about Messi. He is very very special. I personally think that he is not quite on the level of Maradona but there are compelling arguments to say actually he is. IMO he has to do what Maradona did in a world cup to be truly called a great.

I will also give you some names alot closer to home. As a spurs fan I fell very fortunate to of seen some top top players at the Lane. and again just from the top of my head the likes of Archibald, Hoddle, Waddle, Ardiles, Clive Allen, Lineker, Gazza, Klinsmann, Sheringham and Ginola would walk in to our side now and be sort after all over the country. Infact I would go one further they would walk into any side in the country.

I just dont buy your argument that the footballers of today are somehow superior that these players from the last 30 years. Fitness yes. But if these players played today they would also be as fit as todays players.

Christ what would we of done last season if we had an Archibald. Lineker or an Allen?!

 

[StartingPrice]

How anyone can fail to appreciate the progress of English football just baffles me.

Better/strong/world-famous players
Fast/more competitive matches
More recognized league - in terms of money, entertainment, reputation.
Reputation overseas.

Its an example of the success of capitalism and deserves to be studied academically.

You haven't understood the debate properly.
Much of this is true...but it is also true that this has come hand-in-hand with an erosion of the type of values that saw Steve Bull stay at Wolves out of loyalty to the detriment of his career. It has also seen the competitive edge reduced to a small cartel at the top with the mai hope of success being the finding of a rich benefactor and not a genius coach who could build a team. It has also seen saturation of the game on TV, the hyping of relatively, or even totally, meaningless games, and a CL where the rewards for success are so great that teams would rather stifle a match to death than risk loosing it.

It is better in some ways. It is worse in some ways.

Who isn't money-hungry? the question is whether they deserve it.

Besides what's the benefit of being anti-money? loyalty? that doesn't make football any more entertaining.

Many, many people on this planet have not been money hungry, and are not money hungry today :roll:

 

[OmarsComing]

Omar,

I have to say I disagree with everything you say.

By your reckoning it seems to me that you belive that the likes of Maradona, Cruyff, Gullit, Van Basten, Mattheas, Baresi, Maldini, Roberto Baggio wouldnt cut the mustard today? It my belief that these players that I have randomly picked off the top of my head (and Im sure there are lots more!) would all be worth £50m+ in todays market.

I agree with the comments about Messi. He is very very special. I personally think that he is not quite on the level of Maradona but there are compelling arguments to say actually he is. IMO he has to do what Maradona did in a world cup to be truly called a great.

I will also give you some names alot closer to home. As a spurs fan I fell very fortunate to of seen some top top players at the Lane. and again just from the top of my head the likes of Archibald, Hoddle, Waddle, Ardiles, Clive Allen, Lineker, Gazza, Klinsmann, Sheringham and Ginola would walk in to our side now and be sort after all over the country. Infact I would go one further they would walk into any side in the country.

I just dont buy your argument that the footballers of today are somehow superior that these players from the last 30 years. Fitness yes. But if these players played today they would also be as fit as todays players.

Christ what would we of done last season if we had an Archibald. Lineker or an Allen?!

The elite of the late 80's would (imo) definitely be able to cut it in today's game. Some of them might not be in today's elite group, but the players aforementioned above (non spurs) were all amazing.

 

[Maske2g]

Ahh good old Micky Quinn i enjoyed watching him play. But if you knew your stuff you would know that Micky Quinn played most of his football in the lower leagues, for wigan, Stockport, Oldham, Portmouth and Newcastle, before joining Coventry at 30 years old and had two seasons in the Premier league.

In his first season he was one of the top goalscorers with 17 goals! That year he scored more that Alan Shearer at Blackburn, Cantona and Hughes at United and Ian Wright at Arsenal.

In fact Wayne Rooney in 7 years at United has only broken Quinns tally of 17 once, Ronaldo in 6 years at United has only scored more than 17 league goals twice, yet these two players you would concider as Superfit Superstars!

The Premier league in 1993, as I mentioned 1 post ago....had 22 foreign players.....

You speak of the Premier league era like its when football changed. It has evolved considerably in 19 years.

 

[Misfit]

I honestly think I am falling out of love with football. I have never felt like this before. This Modric situations sums it all up for me. He's at a great club thatgave him his chance and now because we finished 5th and not 4th. He feels in his own mind he has to leave to play in the CL. All because of the hype and money surrounding the game, And where does he want to go? Bloooming Chelsea. That tin pot club that won the lottery. Just because they have a rich owner they are seen as abigger club than us. Its obscene! They have not got the fan base that we have nor the trophy count. Yet they are percieved as a bigger club by our wonderful media. Its just bollox.

Its getting to the stage where I am thinking...Whats the point?

I dont know about some of you but I really sence a feel of apathy towards the game at the moment. I personally dont think it will be long before most clubs will be playing in front of half empty stadia....

Thank you Chelsea, City, Sky, and the Champions league for ruining the game I once loved....

This happened to me a fair few yrs ago. The only reason I still watch any football is this illness I have for THFC. I used to watch loads of football, random shite stuff because it was, well, football. Now I don't even watch MOTD anymore. Just catch the odd game which is live on TV involving Spurs or actually, when time and money make it feasible, go to the Lane to watch a game.

Without Spurs, I'd have left the game completely a decade ago at least.

It has turned really really plop.

 

[StartingPrice]

If this Modric business doesn't have a happy conclusion I will be falling into this camp, too

 

[spursphil]

The Premier league in 1993, as I mentioned 1 post ago....had 22 foreign players.....

Meaning what exactly?

You speak of the Premier league era like its when football changed. It has evolved considerably in 19 years.

It has evolved into the Oligarchs league, where the elite clubs call the shots for the benefit of themselves not for the league as a whole.

Two of English footballs most successful and debt free clubs get taken over by sharks with there leveraged buyouts and plunged these two great clubs into hundred's of millions of debt.

Most of my friends who i grew up going to football with can no longer afford to go anymore. But the worst thing in my book is a whole generation of young people born from the early 80's onwards, have missed out on regular match day football due to being priced out.
This link was fundamental to club football to continue its relationship with its most loyal community and has since been lost.
How many teenagers and young adults from the relatively poor estates and neighbourhoods around Tottenham, Holloway road and Salford, attend matches at Tottenham, Arsenal and Man utd?

 

[Maske2g]

It has evolved into the Oligarchs league, where the elite clubs call the shots for the benefit of themselves not for the league as a whole.

Two of English footballs most successful and debt free clubs get taken over by sharks with there leveraged buyouts and plunged these two great clubs into hundred's of millions of debt.

Most of my friends who i grew up going to football with can no longer afford to go anymore. But the worst thing in my book is a whole generation of young people born from the early 80's onwards, have missed out on regular match day football due to being priced out.
This link was fundamental to club football to continue its relationship with its most loyal community and has since been lost.
How many teenagers and young adults from the relatively poor estates and neighbourhoods around Tottenham, Holloway road and Salford, attend matches at Tottenham, Arsenal and Man utd?

Do you actually understand anything about those debts, or is that a sweeping generalisation? Who are the two biggest spenders this summer? Oh it's those two clubs !!!! Man Utd sold 500 million in Bonds last year !!! Their turnover is 300 million. Do you think they are worried about that Debt in the long term? The papers would have you believe so because Joe Public will believe anything in print.

Your basing ticket prices off of what you see at Spurs, which are among the dearest.... Do you think they are going to make it cheaper when we have 32000 on our season ticket waiting list? In truth, it would be nice if everyone could go and watch, but I couldn't care a less if it means little street urchins from Tottenham, or poor people can't go. That means 2 things. Less trouble, and more chance that I can get a ticket.

Fanhood still gets passed down through the family. How many people living in Tottenham now are even English? There are probably more Legia Warsaw fans. Am I less entitled to support Spurs because I lived in Leyton as a kid and not Tottenham? I support them because my Dad does, and he is from Hackney.

If you think the community spirit among fellow football fans is gone your dead wrong. I have a group of 20 mates, all 35 and below that meet at Tottenham for every game in the am and spend the day together. I saw close mates meet up at Nu Bar Loughton the night we beat Chelsea in the league cup, and they shed tears of happiness. It's alive and well.

Come on......regail me with stories of how in the 60's you could leave your front door open, and your kids in the park......

 

[spursphil]

Do you actually understand anything about those debts, or is that a sweeping generalisation? Who are the two biggest spenders this summer? Oh it's those two clubs !!!! Man Utd sold 500 million in Bonds last year !!! Their turnover is 300 million. Do you think they are worried about that Debt in the long term? The papers would have you believe so because Joe Public will believe anything in print.

Your basing ticket prices off of what you see at Spurs, which are among the dearest.... Do you think they are going to make it cheaper when we have 32000 on our season ticket waiting list? In truth, it would be nice if everyone could go and watch, but I couldn't care a less if it means little street urchins from Tottenham, or poor people can't go. That means 2 things. Less trouble, and more chance that I can get a ticket.

Fanhood still gets passed down through the family. How many people living in Tottenham now are even English? There are probably more Legia Warsaw fans. Am I less entitled to support Spurs because I lived in Leyton as a kid and not Tottenham? I support them because my Dad does, and he is from Hackney.

If you think the community spirit among fellow football fans is gone your dead wrong. I have a group of 20 mates, all 35 and below that meet at Tottenham for every game in the am and spend the day together. I saw close mates meet up at Nu Bar Loughton the night we beat Chelsea in the league cup, and they shed tears of happiness. It's alive and well.

Come on......regail me with stories of how in the 60's you could leave your front door open, and your kids in the park......

Do you understand anything about united's debts? To me you seem totally clueless.
Man united sold £500 million worth of bonds to investors who expect a return on that investment. United pay them 9% interest per year paid quaterly and United are paying £45 million a year interest on the bonds alone! All they did was rework the debt, its still there and its not paper talk. The bonds mature in 2017 when united have to pay the investors back their £500 million.

United other debts are the (pik) notes which carry an annual interest rate of 14.25% these interest payments roll over and the (pik) debt is over £200 million at the moment, it is estimated that by 2017 the (pik) debt will stand at roughly £588m. They are up to their eyeballs in debt, and its not the £300m turnover that matters, its if they can turn a profit.

Its the very reason disaffected and disenfrancised united fans started their own football club when Glazer took over. They have a manifesto based on seven core principles on how their club shown be run.

1. The Board will be democratically elected by its members.
2. Decisions taken by the membership will be decided on a one member, one vote basis.
3. The club will develop strong links with the local community and strive to be accessible to all, discriminating against none.
4. The club will endeavour to make admission prices as affordable as possible, to as wide a constituency as possible.
5. The club will encourage young, local participation - playing and supporting - whenever possible.
6. The Board will strive wherever possible to avoid outright commercialism.
7. The club will remain a non-profit organisation.

After reading the rest of your post its clear your idea of fanhood is totally alien to what FC United fans feel about their fellow supporters.

FC United fans generating an atmosphere that most premier league grounds dosn't see.

http://youtu.be/0EJW_6_9BQY

 

[Roberts84]

I agree with none of your post.

I think champions league matches are largely shit.

Chelsea ARE a small club. City ARE a non entity.

And the Wealth of City and Chelsea has changed the futures of other clubs. Chelsea were about to go tits up when they got sold. City were renting a stadium that meant they couldn't compete. All of the mid level prmier league clubs ARE losing financially due to the purchased success of these two clubs.

:clap:

 

[kkemal]

So you walk into a pub 20 years ago and some bloke tells you that in 20 years time Manchester City and Chelsea will be the financial super powers in English football and will be the only clubs able to bid for the most expensive players in the world.

You think what Chelsea? That small club in West London who play in front of 10,000 fans in a run down stadium made of corrugated iron?

and City? Well of course I know the other team from Manchester, United who are quite clearly a top club with massive support and a great history. But City? They havent won anything for yonks and arent even considered in top 10 clubs in the county.

Nah, Im not having that.....

In fact the bloke would probably be locked up in a safe cell with a staright jacket on.

Roll forward to the crazy work of football in 2011. City and Chelsea are amongst 5 clubs in the world that have met the buy out clause for Neymar for £40m. These are the only 2 clubs in the country who could do this.

Now we all know why they can do this and Im a bit sick of it all to be honest. I think its bad for the game in this counry and just hope that FIFA financial fair play rules have the desired effect...But I honestly doubt it.

Now I hate Arsenal like every other Spurs fan on here and to a certain extent am enjoying the fact that they are likely to lose both Nasri and Fabregas. But as much as it pains me to say it they are amongst the 3 biggest clubs in the country they have a good financial model, anew 60,000 stadium, and a great history and fan base. Yet even the Gunners cannot compete with Chelsea and City and like last season will not finish above these 2. How can this be a good thing?

Now onto the biggest aspect that for me is making football in this country a bit crap....The wonderful Champions league...The greatest football competition in the world! The competition all top players want to play in. The highest standard of football ever!!.....
Well not exactly true is it? Lets be honest we had a decent side last year but not a great one. Yet we cruised to the last 8 of the competetion in our debut year. So it doesnt say alot for some of the other teams does it? In fact in the group stages there are some god awful teams and most of the games are very very boring. Infact if it wasnt for Spurs the whole group stages would of been a complete bore, apart from the odd game.

How can it be a good thing that finishing 4th is seen as bigger acheivement than actually winning something???! Its crazy!!

Yet as we have learnt from our failure to secure a place in the competetion again we have learnt that its the only place to be, and if your not in the CL you might aswell not exist according to our wonderful media. Infact it get worse than that....They will unsettle our top players and try to manufacture a move to a CL club...Its great isnt it?!

Now on to our beloved Spurs. IMO we should of got atleast 4th last season. We finished on less points and dropped lots of points against relegated teams, and we scored alot less goals than the previous year. Perhaps if we had signed that "New Striker" we all knew we needed last summer we could of mounted a title challenge. But that is not my real point and is now in the past. We finished 5th. Hardly disastrous. But in modern terms we might awell of finished 15th. That is how the Premier league is now.

So what for Spurs this season? Well as Harry quite rightly says we are competing against United, the 2nd biggest club in the world,
Arsneal & Liverpool, 2 top clubs who have have every right to be up there as much as us.
Then the financial powers that are City and Chelsea who we have no chance of competing against on a financial basis.

Coupled this with the fact that the media and the players agents seem to be hell bent of moving our top players. To say it will be very difficult would be an understatement.

Is football becoming a bit crap? ask some fans of some of the other truly big clubs in the country like Villa, Everton, Leeds, and Forest, and I think they might just agree with me.

what a great post........i agree with ya fully!! but dont waste ya time and effort by putting ya views on this site. This site houses the most deluded and thickle human beings in the uk.

Football aint the same no more...........cash has taken over.

 

[Maske2g]

Do you understand anything about united's debts? To me you seem totally clueless.
Man united sold £500 million worth of bonds to investors who expect a return on that investment. United pay them 9% interest per year paid quaterly and United are paying £45 million a year interest on the bonds alone! All they did was rework the debt, its still there and its not paper talk. The bonds mature in 2017 when united have to pay the investors back their £500 million.

United other debts are the (pik) notes which carry an annual interest rate of 14.25% these interest payments roll over and the (pik) debt is over £200 million at the moment, it is estimated that by 2017 the (pik) debt will stand at roughly £588m. They are up to their eyeballs in debt, and its not the £300m turnover that matters, its if they can turn a profit.

Its the very reason disaffected and disenfrancised united fans started their own football club when Glazer took over. They have a manifesto based on seven core principles on how their club shown be run.

1. The Board will be democratically elected by its members.
2. Decisions taken by the membership will be decided on a one member, one vote basis.
3. The club will develop strong links with the local community and strive to be accessible to all, discriminating against none.
4. The club will endeavour to make admission prices as affordable as possible, to as wide a constituency as possible.
5. The club will encourage young, local participation - playing and supporting - whenever possible.
6. The Board will strive wherever possible to avoid outright commercialism.
7. The club will remain a non-profit organisation.

After reading the rest of your post its clear your idea of fanhood is totally alien to what FC United fans feel about their fellow supporters.

FC United fans generating an atmosphere that most premier league grounds dosn't see.

http://youtu.be/0EJW_6_9BQY

So you knew the answer already. However, your slightly misinformed. They reworked the debt your right, however they paid off the high interest PIK loans in November. What do you think they'll do when this bond matures in 2017 if they need to? They'll sell another one with a smaller interest, because this one was well oversubscribed. They'll stay leveraged up to the eyeballs and decrease that loan over time, and in the end the Glazers will sell for a truckload of cash.

Clueless? As business analysts at investment banks go....yes.....

 

[OmarsComing]

lol at FC United!!!

 

[spursphil]

So you knew the answer already. However, your slightly misinformed. They reworked the debt your right, however they paid off the high interest PIK loans in November. What do you think they'll do when this bond matures in 2017 if they need to? They'll sell another one with a smaller interest, because this one was well oversubscribed. They'll stay leveraged up to the eyeballs and decrease that loan over time, and in the end the Glazers will sell for a truckload of cash.

Clueless? As business analysts at investment banks go....yes.....

You need to meet Danny Boy Levy, the way you work things out you can make the NDP look viable.

So Man United are £750m in debt and borrow £500m to pay off £500m of high interest debt. The new debt cost £45m per year in interest charges. How much debt are united in now?

Don't you just love modern football, United were debt free before Glazer turned up, he borrows the money to buy united then gets united(united fans) to pay it back.

A united fan put it simply, a car thief steals your car then knocks on the door asking you for petrol money.