Jose Mourinho

[slartibartfast]

You mean “The main problem we have is the lack of a striker”....

No. He meant it isnt. We had Kane upfront, with Son, before and it was the same shambolic display.

 

[Japhet]

Poch was amongst the first to use the high pressing tactics (along with Klopp) in the EPL. At that time Mourinho was working abroad where it didn't feature much at all. Many EPL teams have now copied the tactic and have become very adept at it, but Mourinho's only real experience of it was at Man Utd who were widely criticised for being poor. I'm not at all sure that Mourinho knows how to counter the intensity of so many teams now - it certainly doesn't look like it, and his preferred style of play is now very long in the tooth and outdated. That style worked OK years ago but things have moved on and I don't think Mourinho has - or at least isn't showing any signs that he has. We have to stick with him though, not least because it would cost an absolute fortune to bin him and hire someone else. If he has indeed invented this new style of football, I'm equally fascinated and impatient to see what it is, because what we're getting now is painful to watch.

I'd add that, yes, we do need a striker, but the way we're playing it looks highly unlikely they'd get much usable service. It's in our DNA to miss a hatful of chances so I don't hold out much hope when we create so little and of such poor quality at the moment.

 

[Gb160]

Poch was amongst the first to use the high pressing tactics (along with Klopp) in the EPL. At that time Mourinho was working abroad where it didn't feature much at all. Many EPL teams have now copied the tactic and have become very adept at it, but Mourinho's only real experience of it was at Man Utd who were widely criticised for being poor. I'm not at all sure that Mourinho knows how to counter the intensity of so many teams now - it certainly doesn't look like it, and his preferred style of play is now very long in the tooth and outdated. That style worked OK years ago but things have moved on and I don't think Mourinho has - or at least isn't showing any signs that he has. We have to stick with him though, not least because it would cost an absolute fortune to bin him and hire someone else. If he has indeed invented this new style of football, I'm equally fascinated and impatient to see what it is, because what we're getting now is painful to watch.

I'd add that, yes, we do need a striker, but the way we're playing it looks highly unlikely they'd get much usable service. It's in our DNA to miss a hatful of chances so I don't hold out much hope when we create so little and of such poor quality at the moment.

So he finished 2nd with United (and won 2 trophies), and won the league with Chelsea, all by playing a style which is long in the tooth and outdated?

 

[daryl hannah]

Poch was amongst the first to use the high pressing tactics (along with Klopp) in the EPL. At that time Mourinho was working abroad where it didn't feature much at all. Many EPL teams have now copied the tactic and have become very adept at it, but Mourinho's only real experience of it was at Man Utd who were widely criticised for being poor. I'm not at all sure that Mourinho knows how to counter the intensity of so many teams now - it certainly doesn't look like it, and his preferred style of play is now very long in the tooth and outdated. That style worked OK years ago but things have moved on and I don't think Mourinho has - or at least isn't showing any signs that he has. We have to stick with him though, not least because it would cost an absolute fortune to bin him and hire someone else. If he has indeed invented this new style of football, I'm equally fascinated and impatient to see what it is, because what we're getting now is painful to watch.

I'd add that, yes, we do need a striker, but the way we're playing it looks highly unlikely they'd get much usable service. It's in our DNA to miss a hatful of chances so I don't hold out much hope when we create so little and of such poor quality at the moment.

I'd like to see some of these teams playing a high press week in week out for 5 years - the injuries will soon rack up - as they did with us. Although Dier falling ill and Wanyama getting crocked was unfortunate.

Players age, and they will tire of pressing for 5 years straight. Can't last. Think that's what poch concluded.

 

[ToDarrenIsToDo]

When you play a low block you essentially let the opposition attack have the ball in space in front of you and allow them to turn and run. Poch's philosopy was always to have the defence push right up onto the opposition attack so they couldn't run. I agree that the press wasn't as prominent in the last part of Poch's reign but the overall structure and intention was still there.

Now with a low block the defence are being asked to be reactive when a player gets into their territory rather than being on top of them. So Toby/Jan are looking slower as their not so close to their man when there is an attack. Yes Jan has clearly declined but I don't think it is a coincidence that the drop off has looked so stark since Jose has started parking the bus.

We are defending with a low block because that's how Jose wants to play long term or is it because we are trying to utilise what we have at our disposal as best we can? We have the best counter attack scoring record in the PL or at least did a couple of weeks ago, surely it's smart to play to that whilst it's been performing well in a team that's been struggling right?

 

[mpickard2087]

Agree with all this.

I've referenced this before but essentially we've gone from a team that is set up to play proactively, press and be on the front foot to the exact opposite - reactive, counter-attacking and passive. And it's making us look like a shambles. In fact, I believe, part of the reason Jan and Toby look so slow is because they've been used to playing right up against their attacker in a high press. Now they're being asked to defend in wide open spaces with attackers getting a run on them and it's leaving them vulnerable.

If Mourinho could just be a bit more flexible and value possession more it would give us a better chance with the current squad. Not having striking options shouldn't mean we stop being able to pass the ball, press or create chances.

I just think it's simply decline when it comes to those two. What we were doing further up the pitch was a big issue and the standards of our pressing absolutely nose-dived in the last couple of years, but they didn't help things and at the end of the Poch era were incapable of stepping up the pitch any more.

A low block defence should in theory help them - Team all in behind the ball, compact the space, team mates in the vicinity to not leave them isolated, not having to turn and get in a footrace going back towards their own goal and try to cover huge expanses of space, etc. But they look no better or more secure, I think it's just a case of physical decline and as I've said repeatedly now for months I don't know why we're persisting with either, I don't see any benefit or positive impact we're getting any more.

 

[Phomesy]

You change your mind on an hourly basis it seems.

The bit in bold is everything that is wrong with this fan base, that is the past - we had a shot at doing that last year in a final under the management of a man that you and others feel would have been a better bet than Jose - instead he played insipid uninspired football in the pinnacle of club football.

You doubling down on Mourinho is fine but this shot at Pochettino is fucking ludicrous. It was the bullshit penalty that defined that game. Not Poch; not klopp; it was the 1st minute penalty that turned that game into something unlike any in recent memory between the two clubs.

We played scintillating football in that CL run. Just look at goals scored. FFs. Whatever we were it certainly wasn't boring.

What a ridiculous fucking post and shows that you are more interested in doubling down on Mourinho in some bizarre way than any interest in reality.

Blimey.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Harry got injured start of jan, we had a whole month to try and bring someone in. Our last 6 signings have all been midfielders, its negligence. Jose himself banging on about the need to bring in a forward. I know its not easy to find a striker but the transfer committee has blown it again.

It’s clearly ‘not easy’. Barcelona and Man Utd had to bring in a Middlesbrough reject and Watford reject respectfully. And they’re two of the top 5 richest clubs in world football.

 

[rossdapep]

I just think it's simply decline when it comes to those two. What we were doing further up the pitch was a big issue and the standards of our pressing absolutely nose-dived in the last couple of years, but they didn't help things and at the end of the Poch era were incapable of stepping up the pitch any more.

A low block defence should in theory help them - Team all in behind the ball, compact the space, team mates in the vicinity to not leave them isolated, not having to turn and get in a footrace going back towards their own goal and try to cover huge expanses of space, etc. But they look no better or more secure, I think it's just a case of physical decline and as I've said repeatedly now for months I don't know why we're persisting with either, I don't see any benefit or positive impact we're getting any more.

I'd stick with Toby for now, just to see if it's really regression or just off form. Get a better RB/LB beside him and work on the midfield. If we still see poor form then next year replace

 

[Deleted member 27995]

You doubling down on Mourinho is fine but this shot at Pochettino is fucking ludicrous. It was the bullshit penalty that defined that game. Not Poch; not klopp; it was the 1st minute penalty that turned that game into something unlike any in recent memory between the two clubs.

We played scintillating football in that CL run. Just look at goals scored. FFs. Whatever we were it certainly wasn't boring.

What a ridiculous fucking post and shows that you are more interested in doubling down on Mourinho in some bizarre way than any interest in reality.

Blimey.

You think we played good football in the final, nothing else, just the final?

 

[Phomesy]

You think we played good football in the final, nothing else, just the final?

I didn't say that did I? And you know I didn't. And you know it wasn't the point.

You're becoming unhinged.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

I didn't say that did I? And you know I didn't. And you know it wasn't the point.

You becoming unhinged.

That was my point though, the thing you've quoted and started calling me unhinged about - we didn't play well, it was insipid, he did nothing to change the final ...

Are you alright?

 

[Phomesy]

That was my point though, the thing you've quoted and started calling me unhinged about - we didn't play well, it was insipid, he did nothing to change the final ...

Are you alright?

As you very well know the game was changed fundamentally by the early penaltyl. It changed BOTH teams approach fundamentally.

If you don't understand this then you know very little about football and sport in general.

If you do understand this then you're lying and making a crack at Poch simply in service to your desire to defend all things Mourinho to such an extent it's making you look like a paid PR servant - just a bad one.

The shot at Poch was not only unnecessary it was stupid. Poch DID NOT set us up to play "insipid" in the CL final. He set us up the way he had for that entire run - ie haphazard; vulnerable but always ALWAYS capable of goals.

you're being ridiculous. Take a night off.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

You doubling down on Mourinho is fine but this shot at Pochettino is fucking ludicrous. It was the bullshit penalty that defined that game. Not Poch; not klopp; it was the 1st minute penalty that turned that game into something unlike any in recent memory between the two clubs.

We played scintillating football in that CL run. Just look at goals scored. FFs. Whatever we were it certainly wasn't boring.

What a ridiculous fucking post and shows that you are more interested in doubling down on Mourinho in some bizarre way than any interest in reality.

Blimey.

Spot on.

 

[Lennon1981]

My thing with him is that everyone keeps saying he just needs his players... give him a couple of windows and blah blah blah.

If we do this I fear that we will end up sacking him anyway and will be left with a team full of Mourinho players and we are rebuilding all over again.

He’s a dinosaur, a busted flush. Poch was done I get that, it had gone stale but why not stick to the blue print and get another young progressive manager? Instead we go completely the other way. We need to stop flip flopping. Decide the style of football we want and if a manager fails go for a similar manager so we aren’t changing a whole squad with every manager change.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

As you very well know the game was changed fundamentally by the early penaltyl. It changed BOTH teams approach fundamentally.

If you don't understand this then you know very little about football and sport in general.

If you do understand this then you're lying and making a crack at Poch simply in service to your desire to defend all things Mourinho to such an extent it's making you look like a paid PR servant - just a bad one.

The shot at Poch was not only unnecessary it was stupid. Poch DID NOT set us up to play "insipid" in the CL final. He set us up the way he had for that entire run - ie haphazard; vulnerable but always ALWAYS capable of goals.

you're being ridiculous. Take a night off.

We never sniffed a goal so you can forget that.

Like I have heard in this very thread multiple times Poch believed in being 'brave' whatever that was as well. Shame we weren't brave at all over the 90.

As for the rest of it, I wish I was being paid, especially on the internet on a forum such as this, that'd be a dream.

Just as a matter of fact, the goal that got us to the final - hoof ball - route one - an alladyce special ... It takes all sorts.

Any more abuse you want to hurl at me tonight because I'm talking sense and you're not dealing with it very well.

It is my night off funnily enough, but you've decided to go off the deep end, not me.

 

[Phomesy]

Spot on.

He's doing Mourinho a disservice. Starting to think that if uber Mourinho backers are this fucking disconnected from reality and have to resort to such utterly falsifiable statements just to make their defence, then I should probably revisit my cautious support for the bloke.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

He's doing Mourinho a disservice. Starting to think that if uber Mourinho backers are this fucking disconnected from reality and have to resort to such utterly falsifiable statements just to make their defence, then I should probably revisit my cautious support for the bloke.

You realise how stupid you sound right now? You've picked a fight after quoting me and are now posting utter rubbish to try and dig yourself from under.

Keep going, it;s your own hole your digging.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Spot on.

 

[FinnYid]

On that note, I was looking at the stats between Liverpool and City from November.

City had more shots and possession than the home team but lost 3-1. This adds support to the argument that with the right players a counter attack approach and giving up possession can be very effective.

We have squad capable of playing very effective counter attack game once we have proper striker.