Let's All Laugh At... let's all laugh at United

[bc205]

Well she didn't record the act he's accused of committing (attempted rape), she recorded him stating an intention to commit that act. That would be strong evidence in a court but we don't know why she dropped the case, or got back together with him, or if there's any other evidence that could add more context to that recording. Maybe the recording alone is bad enough to fire him from united - I don't know. But I think most people are saying he shouldn't play again because they believe he tried to rape his girlfriend, and I don't think that conclusion should be jumped to without a fair hearing in a court where all evidence can be presented.

And with a lot of other types of crime i would agree with you. But given the nature of coercive and abusive relationships, we know it's basically impossible to have that fair hearing with all the evidence in this case. You're putting a principle over reality in this case. That's fair enough but most will disagree with you.

There's more than enough evidence already public for Man U to be able to make a decision on this. If they keep him then it won't be about his innocence but his ability. If he was a reserve goalie they would have already cancelled his contract.

 

[robotsonic]

Whatever her motives, she's let an awful lot of women down.

Given we know very little of her situation, and what we do know is fucking awful and clearly shows that she's been/being abused, it's a bit grim to heap blame on someone in such an very obviously vulnerable situation. She's the victim ffs.

 

[robotsonic]

Stupid woman.

What an absolutely ridiculous thing to say.

 

[ItsBoris]

And with a lot of other types of crime i would agree with you. But given the nature of coercive and abusive relationships, we know it's basically impossible to have that fair hearing with all the evidence in this case. You're putting a principle over reality in this case. That's fair enough but most will disagree with you.

There's more than enough evidence already public for Man U to be able to make a decision on this. If they keep him then it won't be about his innocence but his ability. If he was a reserve goalie they would have already cancelled his contract.

Here’s my question: if you feel it’s impossible for the legal system to give a fair hearing to the accuser, do you think what you’re doing is giving a fair hearing to the accused?

 

[superted4]

Has greenwood ever come out and denied it was him on the recordings?

speaks volumes if he hasn’t even denied it’s him, as that recording was harrowing!!

 

[Japhet]

Given we know very little of her situation, and what we do know is fucking awful and clearly shows that she's been/being abused, it's a bit grim to heap blame on someone in such an very obviously vulnerable situation. She's the victim ffs.

She will continue to be a victim as well. She had a chance to get away from him.

 

[heinsmit]

Stupid woman.

Whatever her motives, she's let an awful lot of women down.

I'm shocked to see messages like this here to be honest. She doesn't owe anyone anything and this is tantamount to victim blaming. Her unwillingness to testify can easily be (and likely is) symptomatic of the abuse she has ostensibly suffered, as she is manipulated further by people close to her (including allegedly her own family), as well as the abuser himself by bringing a child into the situation, and on top of this she could easily have been intimidated. To lay any blame for any of the badness that has come out of this situation at the feet of the victim is honestly shocking to me

 

[bc205]

Here’s my question: if you feel it’s impossible for the legal system to give a fair hearing to the accuser, do you think what you’re doing is giving a fair hearing to the accused?

You keep focusing on the court and the legal definition of innocence when that is not what is being discussed here.

Do you think Vladimir Putin is guiltu of war crimes and should face some kind of consequence for that?

Practically speaking it's impossible to arrest him and have a legal hearing to officially confirm his guilt. But we know he is guilty and therefore he is facing a different type of consequence in sanctions etc.

That is what people want with Greenwood. We know that he can't be legally convicted. But that does not mean he is innocent or should not face consequences for his actions.

 

[Japhet]

I'm shocked to see messages like this here to be honest. She doesn't owe anyone anything and this is tantamount to victim blaming. Her unwillingness to testify can easily be (and likely is) symptomatic of the abuse she has ostensibly suffered, as she is manipulated further by people close to her (including allegedly her own family), as well as the abuser himself by bringing a child into the situation, and on top of this she could easily have been intimidated. To lay any blame for any of the badness that has come out of this situation at the feet of the victim is honestly shocking to me

Statistically there is a very high chance that it will happen again. There is also a chance that her child will witness it or may even become a victim too. Greenwood goes unpunished. It's an all too familiar scene in domestic violence. I don't want that to happen to her or other women in her situation, but the answer isn't to bury your head in the sand.

 

[spursgirls]

Stupid woman.

I'm interested to know why people disagree with me on this. Personally I can't understand why anyone, male or female, would stay with someone who treats them that badly. Why do you think they should @Stamford @levytime @heinsmit @robotsonic ? genuine question.

 

[bc205]

I'm interested to know why people disagree with me on this. Personally I can't understand why anyone, male or female, would stay with someone who treats them that badly. Why do you think they should @Stamford @levytime @heinsmit @robotsonic ? genuine question.

In a perfect world you're right. But we live in an imperfect world where there is a mountain of examples and psychological studies on why women choose to stay in abusive and coercive relationships.

It's far too complicated an issue to just be calling a victim stupid for not feeling able to leave a coercive/abusive situation.

 

[HildoSpur]

How can United terminate his contract, if he has not been charged with any crime?

They likely have internal disciplinary procedures they could use to get rid of him, just like in any organisation.

 

[spursgirls]

In a perfect world you're right. But we live in an imperfect world where there is a mountain of examples and psychological studies on why women choose to stay in abusive and coercive relationships.

It's far too complicated an issue to just be calling a victim stupid for not feeling able to leave a coercive/abusive situation.

Thank you. I appreciate your answer.
Maybe I was a bit over reactive. I should have explained my thoughts more.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

I'm interested to know why people disagree with me on this. Personally I can't understand why anyone, male or female, would stay with someone who treats them that badly. Why do you think they should @Stamford @levytime @heinsmit @robotsonic ? genuine question.

I think its a tough judgment to make from outside the relationship.

In many abusive relationships - its almost like an addiction, where the victim can't get themselves to leave - or convince themselves they would be worse off if they remain.


As a neutral, with nothing to gain or lose, its easy to say - "Run away!"

For her, there could be a myriad of reasons why she does not want to leave - it could be that she has forgiven and moved on, or it could be that she does not want to give up the lifestyle of being a WAG, or it could be emotional abuse that is keeping her from walking away. On this - we just don't have any (or enough) information to make that kind of judgment. So, I can disagree with her decision, but its hard for me to criticize it - given I don't know her situation.

I think the best approach is to simply hope that she is making an informed decision, that reflects what she wants, and that there are no more recurrences of the publicized abuse. And, then be there to support her, if it breaks down again.

But, I get why people feel differently.

 

[chas vs dave]

Stupid woman.

She may well be the victim of control.

I think its a tough judgment to make from outside the relationship.

In many abusive relationships - its almost like an addiction, where the victim can't get themselves to leave - or convince themselves they would be worse off if they remain.


As a neutral, with nothing to gain or lose, its easy to say - "Run away!"

For her, there could be a myriad of reasons why she does not want to leave - it could be that she has forgiven and moved on, or it could be that she does not want to give up the lifestyle of being a WAG, or it could be emotional abuse that is keeping her from walking away. On this - we just don't have any (or enough) information to make that kind of judgment. So, I can disagree with her decision, but its hard for me to criticize it - given I don't know her situation.

I think the best approach is to simply hope that she is making an informed decision, that reflects what she wants, and that there are no more recurrences of the publicized abuse. And, then be there to support her, if it breaks down again.

But, I get why people feel differently.

I was in a toxic marriage where my ex wife used emotional abuse and controlling behaviour.

Even though we've separated over a year, I kept going back over 5 years.

It's hard, you rationalise it being about the kids, or you find reasons to condone such behaviour. There really isn't.

 

[McFlash]

She may well be the victim of control.

I was in a toxic marriage where my ex wife used emotional abuse and controlling behaviour.

Even though we've separated over a year, I kept going back over 5 years.

It's hard, you rationalise it being about the kids, or you find reasons to condone such behaviour. There really isn't.

I feel you there man, I was in a similar situation. She broke me mentally but there wasn't a second that I would've ever considered leaving.
Even after we'd separated, it would only take one call from her for me to drop everything and go running.

Looking back now, I was absolutely pathetic but I was completely blind at the time and what with having kids, couldn't even imagine life without her.

It really is incredible how much power these sorts of people can exert because I'd always considered myself a strong and independent bloke but over the course of 8 years or so, she completely changed the person I was. She destroyed my confidence and self-respect.

It's taken many, many years to make progress at getting back to my old self again, so for that reason, I would never cast blame on a victim in such a situation.
I've been single for pretty much a decade now, mainly due to the damage that relationship did to me.

 

[spursgirls]

She may well be the victim of control.

I was in a toxic marriage where my ex wife used emotional abuse and controlling behaviour.

Even though we've separated over a year, I kept going back over 5 years.

It's hard, you rationalise it being about the kids, or you find reasons to condone such behaviour. There really isn't.

I can understand that. It must be extra hard when you are married with children. Credit to you for trying to make it work.

 

[kmk]

They likely have internal disciplinary procedures they could use to get rid of him, just like in any organisation.

If the CPS didn't have enough evidence to prosecute him, I can't see what Man Utd could do.

 

[Misfit]

All my United mates don't want him anywhere near the club. The support for him online seems to mostly be from non UK fans. I think the board have massively underestimated how big the backlash from fans will be.

Same. The couple I know want him loaded into a canon and fired into Liverpool city centre.

 

[bc205]

If the CPS didn't have enough evidence to prosecute him, I can't see what Man Utd could do.

Sell him, loan him, pay the contract, cancel the contract, make him train on his own and not play him.

There's loads they could do. If he was a worse player they already would have done one of them.